The LoCo Experience
The LoCo Experience is a long-form conversational podcast that dives deep into the journeys of business leaders, entrepreneurs, and changemakers in Northern Colorado. Hosted by Curt Bear, Founder of LoCo Think Tank, the show brings real, raw, and unfiltered conversations—where guests share their successes, struggles, and lessons learned along the way.
LoCo Think Tank is Colorado’s premier business peer advisory organization, founded in Fort Collins to help business owners gain perspective, accountability, and encouragement to grow both personally and professionally. LoCo chapters bring together business owners at all stages of the journey into professionally facilitated peer advisory chapters, led by experienced business veterans. These groups provide a trusted space to share challenges, seek advice, learn togethter, and support each other’s success.
The LoCo Experience Podcast extends this mission beyond the chapter meetings— bringing the wisdom, insights, and stories of local business leaders to a wider audience.
Our triad mission with this podcast is simple:
Inspire through real stories of resilience and success.
Educate by sharing valuable business insights.
Entertain with engaging, unfiltered conversations.
If you love “How I Built This” and the free-flowing style of Joe Rogan - but with a Northern Colorado focus - you’ll enjoy The LoCo Experience! Our closing segment, "The LoCo Experience," asks guests to share their craziest stories — and we get some doozies!
It’s a passion project with purpose, and we invite you to listen, follow, and share, and maybe consider sponsoring. Know someone with a great story? Nominate your favorite business leader for an episode!
The LoCo Experience
EXPERIENCE 251 | Regulation Navigation with Rachael Ardanuy, Marijuana Attorney and Founder of RZA Legal
Rachael Ardanuy is a purpose-driven attorney, as passionate about business and community as anyone I’ve come to know lately, and also an adjunct professor, Certified Jazzersize Instructor, and co-founder with her husband of Grow Your Own Fort Collins - a design and install firm focused on home gardening. We traded some home grown gifts before the show, and enjoyed a lovely conversation.
Rachael came to Colorado as a marijuana industry attorney - helping with formations and contracts and navigation of the regulatory hurdles in the still-young industry. As the pace of growth in the industry slowed - and regulatory hurdles in other industries increased - she has expanded to become a full-service contracts and counsel firm with a specialty in regulatory navigation.
In this conversation, Rachael shares a lot about what you didn’t know about the marijuana industry and the local constrictions to growth - and some ideas about what’s ahead. Smoking lounges, ketamine healing centers, and guided psychedelic journeys are all on the radar. She’s a smart cookie, and a lotta fun, so please tune in and enjoy my conversation with Rachel Ardanuy.
The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Purpose Driven Wealth Thrivent: Learn more
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Music By: A Brother's Fountain
Rachel Arden Noy is a purpose-driven attorney as passionate about business and community as anyone I've come to know lately, and also an adjunct professor, certified jazzer size instructor and co-founder with her husband of Grow Your Own Fort Collins, a design and install firm, focused on home gardening. We traded some homegrown gifts just before the show and enjoyed a lovely conversation. Rachel came to Colorado as a marijuana industry attorney, helping with formations and contracts and navigation of the regulatory hurdles in the still young industry. As the pace of growth in the industry slowed and regulatory hurdles in other industries increased, she has expanded to become a full service contracts and council firm with a specialty in regulatory navigation. In this conversation, Rachel shares a lot about what you didn't know about marijuana industry and the local constrictions to growth. And some ideas about what's coming. Smoking lounges, ketamine, healing centers and guided psychedelic journeys are all on the radar. She's a smart cookie and a lot of fun. So please tune in and enjoy my conversation with Rachel Arvo.
Speaker 8:Let's have some fun. Welcome to the Loco Experience Podcast. On this show, you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond. Our guests share their stories, business stories, life stories, stories of triumph and of tragedy. And through it all, you'll be inspired and entertained. These conversations are real and raw, and no topics are off limits. So pop in a breath mint and get ready to meet our latest guest.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Local Experience Podcast. My guest today is Rachel Arno and she is the founder of RZA Legal here in Fort Collins or Loveland.
Speaker 3:Yep. Fort Collins.
Speaker 2:Fort Collins. And is an expert in the regulatory arts, especially, uh, historically cannabis focused and now expanding into a number of things, but especially if your business is regulated by the man, she'll help you navigate that, uh, circumstance.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And she's also a certified jazzer size. What do they call that? Jazzer size distributor? Instructor. Instructor. It's different than this situation. Both. She is an adjunct law professor, a board member of the harsh shalom.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So shalom to you, Rachel Shalom.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 2:glad to have you here.
Speaker 5:Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. This a great podcast.
Speaker 2:You introduced that as, uh, mountain Peace in the Harsh Shalom. But shalom is so much more than just peace, right?
Speaker 3:It is. It is. It's a greeting. It's a well wish. Um, and, uh, and it's something we strive for. Peace. Peace in life. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Fair enough. Um, talk to me about, uh. Z?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So RZA legal, that's my initials. Um, I, I, my maiden name is Zes. So, um, was always at the end of the alphabet. Usually had to wait till they repeated my name twice, not paying attention. I'm a
Speaker 2:bear. So I was always up close to the front.
Speaker 3:Well, I went from Z to a, I fell, fell in love with a guy named Ar Deno and, uh, you know, changed my last name to ar Deno, but kept Zes is my middle name. So that's where Rizza came from. Excellent. Um, also homage to, to the Wu-Tang Clan, of course, but, um, yeah, Rizza Legal started in 2015.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you call it Rizza Legal.
Speaker 3:Well, you know what, I like to leave it blank and let whoever says it. So then if they say Rizzo Legal, then, then I know that they're, you know, then they,
Speaker 2:they see that you're bringing the Riz. They,
Speaker 3:they Exactly right. Otherwise, yeah, RZA legal works for me too. Um, whatever gets you there.
Speaker 2:Well, we, uh, we both noticed as we were, uh, preparing for this podcast that, um, there were fun smells. In the studio today. And so without further ado, here's my thank you for joining the local. We got local experience shades, nice local think tank, and local experience stickers. Oh, and roughly an eighth of my homegrown.
Speaker 3:Nice. What? Do you know what kind it is?
Speaker 2:No, not certain. No. We're calling it, uh, citrus Fire.
Speaker 3:I like that name. That's nice. Um,
Speaker 2:because, uh, my producer right here said it smelled citrusy and I, I don't disagree.
Speaker 3:All right. That works.
Speaker 2:So,
Speaker 3:yeah. You know, um, but
Speaker 2:I don't know, I won't remember. My neighbor gave me a clone. I, I try to grow a backyard plant every year. Uh, just provide shade for my cherry tomatoes and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Your, your second tomato plant you mean? Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah. Nice. Um, the fuzzy
Speaker 2:tomatoes. Fuzzy.
Speaker 3:I love that. Yeah. I've got some homegrown too. Also grown here in Fort Collins. This is, um, gorilla Glue. Oh. So, um, it's a little, that's a good one. Yeah. It's got some smell on it. It's a, it's kind of one of the more mellower, calm down strains. Okay. Um,
Speaker 2:so this seems, mine seems to be a sativa biased hybrid. All right. That use is probably more indica bias. Is that
Speaker 3:Yes, it is. It's, it's definitely more of a stony, uh, nighttime. I call it like the work weed and the, so you got dates, you gave me daytime weed and I gave you the nighttime weed. That's usually, that's not, that's not the legal distinction. Well
Speaker 2:enjoy that. And let's go ahead and just thank, drop that down onto the floor so it doesn't clutter our shot for this conversation, if you don't mind. And then we'll get into the meat of this thing. So. How long have you been a lawyer?
Speaker 3:I've been a lawyer since 2012, so, okay. What's the math on that? 13, almost 14 years.
Speaker 2:And I recall you were a Florida gal?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I got my degree, my law degree in Florida. I practiced there for about three years and, uh, one year into practicing my husband and I visited Colorado. We really loved it here. And, um, Florida doesn't have reciprocity with any other state as far as your Oh, licensing goes. Oh really? Yeah. So I had to come out to Colorado in 2014, take the bar again, um, to be able to practice here in Colorado and we moved here in 2015. So, um, yeah, so I'm, I'm licensed in Colorado, Florida, and I also waived in New Jersey when they legalized for adult use in 2022.
Speaker 2:Okay. And so were you a regulatory focus right from the start and'cause Florida doesn't even still have it, right? Yeah. So that couldn't have been a specialty yet.
Speaker 3:Right. In Florida, if you were calling yourself a marijuana attorney in 2012, that meant you were a criminal defense attorney? There was, there was nothing. Um, so is it still the same
Speaker 5:or what's the story there? They have a medical
Speaker 3:program. They do. Okay. Um, so when I was practicing in Florida, in my beginning of my career, I did estate planning, so wills and trusts, powers of attorney. I did, uh, family law, so divorces and child support. I did, um, some criminal defense work, some civil litigation. Um, but when I moved to Colorado, I was like, I'll do anything except for family law. Mm-hmm. I just, I really didn't like it anymore. I was, it's not why I went to law school. I wasn't. It's brutal. It's brutal.
Speaker 2:Cut into those emotional circumstances and
Speaker 3:Exactly right. Curtis, your job
Speaker 2:is to take a side. They hired you and win. Even if that dude or woman is the total asshole situation. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It's, um, you know, it takes true love to make true hate and everyone there loved each other at one point, so they all just really hated each other. And it, you know, it was just really hard, hard emotional work and I that not something that I was passionate about. And so when I moved to Colorado, I was like, I'm gonna be new in this state. Everything's gonna feel new, even though I've been practicing for a while. The laws are in different places and they call'em different things. Um, so I can be new and I could do something new. Yeah. And it was 2014 when I took the bar exam, um, in Colorado and, um, to back up in Colorado. Um, the, the people voted to legalize marijuana in 2012, but it took about two years to actually see dispensaries open up for adult use. Gotcha. So that happened right around the time that I took the bar exams. Oh. So there's
Speaker 2:a lot of work happening. There was a
Speaker 3:lot going on out here. Yeah. Yeah. And there weren't a lot of attorneys who were willing to, um,
Speaker 2:sell their name by working with a Right. A we shop.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly. Um, and so, you know, right when I took the bar and came out here. Luckily, Colorado was on the forefront. They, you know, um, came out with an ethics opinion that said, listen, we're not gonna take your law license away if you are guiding these folks, because we don't want the state to be the only ones with the attorneys here. We want these folks to not just have handshake ba, you know, backroom deals. Like we, we want to legitimize this industry. We want encourage attorneys to work with marijuana licensed businesses, um, and help them through the regulations. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so 2015 I moved here and literally jumped directly into working with marijuana businesses, um, July of 2015. And, um, ever since then, twice a year, there's been crazy changes, whether it's through the legislative process or rulemaking and rulemaking. Mm-hmm. So every single year we've seen an evolution in the marijuana world. Um, even though the state constitution says it has to be regulated like alcohol, we know it's not. We know there's a lot of, um. Lot harder, uh, barriers to entry in the marijuana world. Okay. And limitations even here in the city. That's part of something I'm working on this year, is trying to encourage city council to revisit the regulations for Fort Collins marijuana. We deserve delivery. We deserve, um, you know, hospitality venues that serve cannabis. I think they're so far
Speaker 2:away from schools too. Those are real consumers, right. I'm just,
Speaker 3:I mean, the consumer's eyes here are the parents, right. We can't bring our kids into a dispensary to go buy a, you know, a bag of weed, but we can take them into, um, the liquor store and push them around in the car. Well, yeah, yeah. Honestly. And
Speaker 2:you also can't leave them in the car.
Speaker 3:Can't leave them the car. Come on, help us out city council, uh, let's, let's get some delivery going. So, you know, it's not just people who, uh, have mobility issues or those who you might think. It's like there's a whole segment of our population who can't access cannabis unless they're home grower like you and I, but can't access it if they've got their kids on them and they can't bring them into the shop and they can't get in the car. Right. Interesting. So it's like there's, let's get with the time you a
Speaker 2:babysitter for 30 bucks so you can get out to buy a$50 bag of weed.
Speaker 3:And I know I've encouraged dispensary owners to have to work with local, uh, you know, um. Nurseries and stuff. We a little pipe pen
Speaker 2:right out front.
Speaker 3:Hey, you know, marijuana is a hyperlocal business. They can't ship it outta state. They can't, they're very, they have to be tied into their communities. Yeah. So
Speaker 2:it seems like as a very low volume, uh, purchaser, uh, it seems like there's been a lot of consolidation in the industry. Like the, the weed shops are getting, the owners of the weed shops are becoming bigger and bigger companies, and there just aren't very many like. Standalone shops anymore. Is that true or what Can you tell me about the industry itself? The healthiness of it, the profitability even?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in 20, I wanna say it was 2019 a bill passed that allowed outside money in, so for the longest time, they couldn't be owned by publicly traded companies. Mm-hmm. You had to be a Colorado resident. Um, so there was a whole lead up of many years, maybe seven or eight years, where that was limited. Gotcha. So once outside money was able to come in, that's when we start seeing these large, massive multi-state operators, um, coming into the space, you know, flooding lots
Speaker 2:more products, uh, a lot of products, lots more concentrates, things like that.
Speaker 3:And like bigger facilities. Right. And with bigger facilities, you have, uh, in my opinion, somewhat less lesser quality. Right.'cause you're not, you're not having these smaller batch places just like, just like Right. Like a
Speaker 2:craft brewery versus Budweiser kind of.
Speaker 3:Exactly. You took the words outta my mouth. Exactly. Right. So, but that said, it's just like every industry, just like, everyone's like, oh, you know. Are all these small shops being pushed out? Well, just like, you know, in alcohol, just like in alcohol, just like in soda. Just like in any in industry. Yeah. You're gonna have your big players, you're gonna have your small players. And yes, they are in the same industry, but are they really competition for one another? Yeah. Yes. And no.
Speaker 2:Economics of the game is different for what?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Fair enough. Okay. So there's still room in for the little guys out there.
Speaker 3:There are, and especially because in Colorado and many other states did it this way, you have to have a state license and a local license. Just like your bar here in Fort Collins, you have to have a liquor license from the city of Fort Collins and from the state of Colorado. So there were local governments that said, we're not opting into this. And I did this research literally today.
Speaker 2:Well, and Fort Collins was in, and then it was out. Fort Collins was in and then it was out.
Speaker 3:Right. Right. And then they haven't touched it since then. Right. You know. Fair. Um, but yeah, like there's some local governments that still. That ban is on the books. Um, you know, some more rural areas, more on the eastern plains. But you know, Sterling Colorado, that's pretty far east of here. Yeah. Uh, halfway between here and Nebraska. They just legalized this past year. Oh, interesting. To allow for dispensaries. Yeah. So, you know, 12 years in, what were the
Speaker 2:residents doing? Were they coming like all the way to Fort Collins or something? Or was there like a little town between there where there were like two houses and a weed shop or,
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean, alt Colorado legalized so alt, um, they, but they just a unique little
Speaker 4:town.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Unique little town. They just legalized, um, also within the last couple of years. Gotcha. So yeah, people were coming to Fort Collins, um, or Larimer County. Those are considered two separate like jurisdictions, but Fort Collins is known for being like the least taxed in the state, actually. Oh really? So our taxes are really low on, on retail marijuana. By the city. By the city. Because it's
Speaker 2:a state tax and a city tax. Is that right? Yeah,
Speaker 3:the city has, um, really, they didn't, they didn't treat it differently, miraculously. Well, one thing I've noticed
Speaker 2:is like. Prices have actually come down over the last 10 years for like retail to the point where it's like basically the same price as it was when I was 20 years old in college for the compressed Mexican brown that I was getting off of my, you know, neighbor across the street.
Speaker 3:And back then you got what you got. Right? Totally. Or, or in other states where it's not legal, you get what you get. Um, but yeah, now there's all kinds of options and, you know, the prices have come down. There is comp, you know, more competition, so there's more opportunity. Um, so yeah, and you can, you can wholesale it too, like when it was just medical, the medical dispensary had to grow their own bud too. Mm. When they, when they, um, came out with adult use in 2012, they, they changed that model and said, well, you know, we can, you can now wholesale it and you can get it from a grow facility, can sell it to multiple different stores. Interesting. So the pros and cons of both.
Speaker 2:So kind of with the market being more stabilized now, that's probably, it was probably 80, 90% of your business for a while, but as. Right. Things change and there isn't as many like rapid developing situations. I assume that that portion of your business is lesser, but still significant.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, it was like 95 to a hundred percent of my business for a long time. Wow. And especially during the pandemic, cannabis was deemed essential. So they had, they were open, they were operating, they were navigating public health orders, um, figuring out how to make this make sense. Mm. But you know, there, it was a boon time for sure during the pandemic for, um, cannabis industry because they were allowed to stay open, unlike other industries. Um, so that did
Speaker 2:new ones open a lot too.
Speaker 3:Some opened, yeah. A lot of'em expanded. I mean, at that time I think a lot of investors were feeling good about it. Right. And in the commercial world, a lot of time. To back up. I mean, cannabis companies can't get financing from the bank.
Speaker 4:Oh, right.
Speaker 3:Banks will not loan the money, even if it's like a mortgage on their, and it's secured by real estate.
Speaker 2:Really?
Speaker 3:They won't, most of banks will not.
Speaker 2:So you gotta have coin to get started. Gotta have period
Speaker 3:or relationships, uh, hard money lending, bridge loans, um, you know, all kinds of other interesting financing arrangements. And so, um, yeah, so, you know, a lot of notes that were given in 2020 when things were looking great had a five year term. So those notes are coming due now and, you know, so we're seeing a lot of consolidation. We're seeing Yeah. People were like,
Speaker 2:I can't pay this loan, really? And so we're seeing some
Speaker 3:receivership actions, you know, we're seeing issues in the IRS, but we're also seeing some companies really thrive, um, who are doing it right. And not just, you know, going off and trick, well, you spending money left and right. Well,
Speaker 2:if start a shop with. Loan shark money, like that's gonna be a problem. It's hard get off from that. Your costs are too high compared to everybody else's, you know?
Speaker 3:Right. And a lot of those costs you can't write off, um, at this.
Speaker 2:Right. And the margins, I'm sure aren't what they used to be. Right. For the growers or the sellers probably.
Speaker 3:Right. Like I said, there's still, there's still plenty of businesses that are doing great and you know, especially here in Fort Collins, I don't think we've seen hardly any dispensary shutdown. Well, the
Speaker 2:diversity of products. Diversity of products. Absolutely. It's crazy, you know, so many different kinds of edibles and different things. I'm a boring, like flower guy. Same.
Speaker 3:Same. The coolest part though that I have noticed is like just when people come to me and they're like, I have this idea for a product or a business venture or whatever, and it's like, it's just something that's never existed in the world before because this is all very new. So like marijuana lounges and other, other ideas. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm hearing from people here in town that like, wish that they could, they maybe it would be
Speaker 2:nice to be a more social kind of thing. Yeah. Like the Amsterdam
Speaker 3:coffee shops, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's,
Speaker 3:if you've ever been, I mean it's a lot, it's a lot of fun and um, especially for those who don't really, um, drink as much or want alternatives. Um, we're seeing, you know, alcohol consumption's going down or seeing cannabis consumption going up. So, you know, giving people more options, um, would be great
Speaker 2:if I'm a would be operator.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of let's start with a, a retail shop and then I wanna back it up to the production side maybe.'cause you, I'm sure you work with both. Oh, yeah. What's what's the circumstance, let's say right here in Fort Collins and, um, right now, so if I wanna start something in February.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Uh, which I don't, I'm sorry. You can't.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately. So that's, that's part of where, you know, um.
Speaker 2:So they're maxed out already or something? They're maxed out. Yeah. Okay. So, like
Speaker 3:I said, uh, Fort Collins has not looked at their regulations since 2013. I wanna say 2012 or 2013,
Speaker 2:whatever, when they fuck changed it back to, yeah. Okay. And so what they
Speaker 3:did then is they, they tied the number of dispensary, re adult use dispensaries, um, available licenses Okay. To the number of medical marijuana patients that were registered. So Oh, completely arbitrary. Um, rule I wasn't around Right. As probably less
Speaker 2:medical registrants now, because people are like, well, I could just pay at retail and I don't have to worry about
Speaker 3:Right. Kurt having some
Speaker 2:kind of problem with my insurance in the future.'cause I said I'm a
Speaker 3:maybe. Right. Who knows not, right? Yeah. Or they don't want to, they don't, maybe they, you know, maybe they have concerns about concealed carry or other things. Right. Don't wanna be on a list of medical, um, marijuana, um, registry. But, uh, yeah, so it, it, it was an arbitrary thing and they sort of capped the number and so, um, we've been stuck at this number of dispensaries and meanwhile there's like over 500 liquor licenses in Fort Collins. And so, and
Speaker 2:how many. Retail marijuana licenses
Speaker 3:like 15.
Speaker 2:Really? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, oh, interesting. So they get to keep a good, pretty good margin, right? Right. It's, it's right now like the current operator. So I'm not trying to make any problems for the current operators, you know, some of which are my clients. Um, but uh, you know's, definitely
Speaker 2:very anti-competitive though. It's
Speaker 3:anti-competitive. Exactly right. It's exactly right. And um, you know, especially when there's just so much innovation. You know, I just talked to a, a, a woman who wants to open this really well, not wants to, they are opening a very novel concept, restaurant bar place. And um, I'm just really excited for'em. It's in the old town area and so, you know, I've been able to pivot. All of my expertise in the cannabis licensing world to help other people who are highly regulated, like you mentioned. So like short-term rental licensing, liquor licensing, now natural medicine or psychedelics licensing. Mm. Those are all very, somewhat similar processes Right. When it comes to approaching the, the, the government. Yeah. And getting those, and especially in
Speaker 2:the process of being defined in some cases, like the regulation says this, and so you have to honor that.
Speaker 3:Right, right, right. You know,
Speaker 2:or pivot to it.
Speaker 3:Definitely. So, you know, being able to think in that way and help these highly regulated businesses has helped in other areas. Right. So like, if a bar gets shut down for, um, one reason or another, like how I can, you know, come in and help resolve that issue and get them back open for it. It's so
Speaker 2:funny. All the attention that Colorado spends on making sure kids don't buy alcohol these days. Like if I go to seven 11, I wanna buy an odells IPA. Like that's, I'm guaranteed to get carted even when I was rocking my giant beard that I just got shaved off this morning. Oh, yeah. Because they're scared to death that somebody's planting a mole and trying to get them in trouble.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:But my perception of the, like high school culture and stuff, and Jill and I host exchange students regularly and stuff is 90% of kids don't care at all about alcohol.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, it's weird because I would love to know what the actual, like, we know, we know if you, if you go on to the city of Fort Collins every month they have a liquor board meeting and every meeting they, um, their liquor enforcement team talks about what the percentages of underage sales happened. Okay. Um, on like stings that they do. Okay. And, um, don't quote me on this, but I wanna say it's somewhere between like 80 and 95, 80 and 90% that
Speaker 2:are successful
Speaker 3:of, of success. So like, so 80 to 90% that are successful, but that means like 2010 to 20%. Are people who are making these sales to underage. Oh, I see what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? So yeah. So like, so
Speaker 2:they reject the sale, right?
Speaker 3:So the city, so the city comes out and they do these stats and they say, oh, you know, this month we did this many, you know, sting, just like you talked about. Yeah, yeah. And this, this is how many people have passed and this how many. So every single month you'll see there are always some license on there who's getting some fine or something. Getting ganged slapped on a slapped on a wrist for having sold to underage. Um, it feels like they spend about as
Speaker 2:many resources trying to bust people as they collect in sales taxes from all those stores. Probably. Like, I'm curious too. It can't be an efficient mechanism. Maybe I'm wrong. That's
Speaker 3:interesting. Well, and like you said, like what? But what would it be if it was like actual teenagers? Well,
Speaker 2:and you know, one thing that's not explored is like every time they. You ask me to pull out my wallet'cause I wanna buy a 22 ounce Odell IPA, like that's, you know, an extra minute or something outta my day. What's the collective cost of all those hours of all those people fucking around in the seven 11 when they're rocking a big beard and you know, they're not, anyway.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I feel you on that. Voluntary to me kinda, I mean, that being said though, on the marijuana side, I mean they are consistently over 95% pass rate. I mean it's, it is less, oh they, yeah, way less in alcohol or, uh, I'm sorry, marijuana underage sales than in alcohol sales. Sure. But because there's the stigma against cannabis, because cultural element come from, right. They have to continually dump resources into doing these underage things. Yeah. I don't think I've
Speaker 2:ever not been carted at the weed store.
Speaker 3:No. Three times. Right. Totally at the door, the register, you check it out. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, you know, it's, they really felt like, you know, let me back up. So back in like, I wanna say it was 2014, we had this Cole memorandum that said, like, from, from the feds that said like, as long as the states are doing these, like eight things, like preventing underage sales, preventing growing on federal property, preventing like money going to drug cartels. Oh, you know, there was like eight like real
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Priorities. And if the states could set up a system that would prevent those things, then like the feds would then we won't screw, sort of leave you alone, right? Yeah. They, it was definitely not like immunity, but they were like, all right, we know. So that's kind of where we came out the gate, like zealous, um, you know, strict regulations.
Speaker 2:We fought hard for. 30 years to get these rights. Let's not be dumb asses and lose'em somehow.
Speaker 3:Right, right. But you know what it's like the story of chicken little, right? Like the sky has not fallen. It is 13 years and we need to be treating these like the small businesses that they are.
Speaker 2:I hear like on the, on the Twitter chatter and stuff, I hear a lot of times the, call it the anti weed crowd or whatever, saying that the experience here in Colorado has been bad. Like there's a, you know, a lot more use and a lot more problems with it and kids dropping outta school and stuff like that. And I, I guess what would you as an industry insider. Say to that or, or what's, my observation hasn't been, yeah. That, but I'd only have a very limited data pool. Right. And I think like terrible teachers and COVID policies are more responsible for dumb kids than weed shops. But Yeah. Uh, I
Speaker 3:mean Right. I think people are gonna cherry pick whatever data that, you know, supports. Supports, yeah. Right. Supports their position. You know, I don't wanna pit alcohol. Marijuana against each other.'cause I do think they're very different. Um, but we know, we know what the stats are on alcohol's impact on Sure. Public health and safety and, you know, drunk driving and although
Speaker 2:alcohol consumption's way down too.
Speaker 3:It's way down now. Right, exactly. Yeah. So it's like, what's, what's the cause of that? Is it marijuana? Is it other things? Yeah. Um, you know, so, you know, we have so many different statistics that we could look at. I mean, the statistics I would pull in comparison to that is like how many people are off of their, um, you know, prescription medications. Totally. Because they're, you know, doing this Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are doing that instead of,
Speaker 3:right. I mean, my dad's one of those, he's a medical marijuana patient in Florida and he was on opioids for fusion neck surgery and like neck pain for 15 years. He was on opioids and got off him, um, from being a medical marijuana patient. And did he have.
Speaker 2:Other health issues that arose from his opioid situation, or did he have addiction challenges? It was, yes, it was
Speaker 3:dependence, absolutely. Yeah, dependence. And then of course, you know, the finances that come along with that. Sure. So, yeah, I mean, he was able to successfully get off of that. And that's, those, those are trends we're seeing not, you know, anecdotally, those are trends we see across every state that is legalized. Where opioid deaths are down opioid, ah, interesting. Incidences are down. And now we're seeing, like you said, alcohol use is also going down and other, even, even like, you know, uh, prescriptions for arthritis. You know, like people are using CBD and other like tinctures and topicals that, um, so they don't have to like, and, and that's backed up by like Medicare claims, right? Like Right. You know, a lot of seniors not, there's actual data. There's actual data, right. So I mean, I think that there's good and tricky parts to Sure. This kind of pro, you know, program and, um, all of that being said, I'm excited to see what's gonna happen with natural medicine.'cause we are, it's been more
Speaker 2:successful than the wolves thing for sure. For Colorado.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I hear what I just read yesterday. They had to like bring a wolf back from New Mexico or something. It's interesting'cause like wolves are not like beholden to state, like
Speaker 2:Right. Totally lines. Well in none of the other states that have wolves, like Idaho has so many wolves that they barely have any elk or deer anymore. But because of the politics of it, and Polis is such a voice for the Democratic party these days and stuff, and Idaho has literally got way too many. So they Right. But they're like, nah, screw you. We're not gonna see you Idaho.
Speaker 5:How do we, how do we lure them? Right? I
Speaker 2:right. Yeah. Uh, just some cows, we'll
Speaker 3:trade you some elk for some wolves. But it was,
Speaker 2:was the, the amendment thing when it was voted on, uh, proposed to cost of, uh, around$800,000 per year.
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 2:Do you know what they spent last year?
Speaker 3:What, twice that?
Speaker 2:3.5.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:That's before they had to go down to New Mexico, so it's probably, oh boy. Coming up on four now this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That makes, I mean,
Speaker 2:yeah. So it's only five times as expensive as they said.
Speaker 3:3.3 mil. I mean,
Speaker 2:what's 3 million? What's, you know Yeah.
Speaker 3:Drop in the bucket. Just
Speaker 2:feed school kids lunch for one county or two. Right. Um, so overall, your perception is it hasn't been, uh, you know, the world isn't necessarily way better for it, but it also has some, uh, significant benefits and especially in terms of in. An alternative to alcohol or prescription drugs.
Speaker 3:I think the world is way better for it, in fact. Okay. I mean, cannabis use has been documented for millennia. People have been using it across the world. So, um, it's nothing new. It's just, uh, you know, aligning our state, our laws and regulations along with what people are already doing. You know, prohibition does not stop cannabis use. It just makes it illegal. Right. And so, and then
Speaker 2:the bad people make money.
Speaker 3:Well, right. I mean, enterprising people who don't, right. Who aren't gonna contribute back to taxes and aren't gonna be above board and above ground and show themselves in, in, in town. So, you know, what's
Speaker 2:funny is, uh, I've, I've saved for a lot of different topics. The more government tries to fix something, the more it generally fucks it up. Um, and one could make the argument that things like the marijuana prohibition and all the focus on. You know, jail time for cocaine and heroin and stuff. And then kind of turning the blind eye as opioids became a real crisis and all those factors, and especially the pro marijuana prohibition, like led to where we are now, which is drug boats being bombed, coming from Venezuela.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like in a very unclear Yeah. Ethical or like world. We're on drugs, we're on drug
Speaker 3:rate, really created a lot of problems. Right. Um, you know, which is, if
Speaker 2:we could've just had some weed, maybe we'd have just not even had to have the Miami vice season with all the cop cocaine and the heroin addiction and people like bending over and stuff on the streets in New York and Right.
Speaker 3:And Loveland. And Loveland. Yeah. No, no shade to Loveland. But no, I mean, yeah, I mean there's the opioid addiction and then everything that's come from that. Um, has really caused such, such big problems. And, you know, again, like people getting addicted to those, then moving to heroin, fentanyl, fentanyl,
Speaker 2:a thing that's like 10 times stronger than fentanyl coming around now.
Speaker 3:Wow. Absolutely. Right. And it's, it's horrifying because people, you know, we know there's a mental health crisis in this country, in this world. There's a lot for people to deal with and think with, think about, and people trying to heal themselves or numb themselves in one way or another, um, you know, it absolutely can go too far. And so, you know, I think it's, it's important to come back, especially with cannabis. Like, you know, we have medical marijuana. Like there I have heard amazing stories of people who, you know, could not, you know, PTSD or you know, seizures amp stuff that sometimes puput who have like, right, like phantom pain, it feels like their hands on fire, they don't even have a hand. Right? And the only thing that stops it is smoking this one kind of cannabis. Like I've, I've heard amazing stories. Lets do it. Yeah. People changing their lips now. Of course we have, we've heard the stories where it's also ruined people's lives, right? Sure. And I think that's, um, you know, there's definitely, it's important to keep those things in mind. But, um, I definitely think that we, and have, having adopted this and being the pioneer of, um, you know, legalizing marijuana for adult use and then now psychedelics for people trying to heal themselves is, uh, is is a bold move. And, um, I think it has paid off. And I think Colorado has, listen, if it wasn't a bold move, then 33 other states wouldn't have legalized after
Speaker 2:us. Right, right, right. The
Speaker 3:cat's outta the bag at this point. Is that what It's
Speaker 2:now 34? I believe It's
Speaker 3:34 now. Wow. Right. And so interesting. So, you know, there's, there's so many states and medically too, so I think there're, we know and why not serve
Speaker 2:folks in some of those newer states and stuff with your expertise?
Speaker 3:So I did. Because it's a
Speaker 2:pain in the ass to get the bar stuff point, you know?
Speaker 3:Yes. I thought about that. I was like, you know, do I want to branch out into other areas of law here in Colorado? Helping other businesses essentially. I, I'm a business attorney, regulatory attorney, um, could help any type of business in the work that I do. Transactional work. Sure. I don't go to court or anything, but doing contracts, doing real estate, you know, buy and selling businesses, that kind of thing. And uh, back in 2022 I was like, you know what? There's momentum for other states legalizing, right. Um, the Midwest legalized so many states in the Midwest, but I've never been, and I have no ties there. But yeah, I'm originally from Philly and they, Pennsylvania has still only a medical program, but New Jersey legalized for adult use. Yeah. And I have cousins and family. A friend grew up going down the shore and I, and so I was like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna stick with cannabis is I'm gonna double down. I'm gonna get licensed in New Jersey. We're gonna help some, um, businesses there. Just like in Col, Colorado, how they legalize it. And then it took about two, three years to really get the wheels turning, you know? Yeah. The same thing happened there. So like, you know, there was a few folks that we helped out of the gate, open dispensaries and stuff, but local governments were so slow, like the state, the state control cannabis control board, like they knew what they were doing. Just like here. Marijuana enforcement division, that's all they do is marijuana licensing. Right. So that's, they're the experts at this. As far as regulators, but local governments, they have every fish to fry. Yeah. It's like, I don't even know everything to do
Speaker 2:what we're supposed to do, start with. Right, right. So
Speaker 3:like, we're expecting these local folks, plus bridge needs to be replaced down on Forest Street plus COVID or whatever else, you know, so that, that, that kind of slowed things down, especially for hospitality, because at the state level in Colorado, hospitality was legalized in 2019 saying, oh, here's how you guys can start smoking together. And then 2020 happened where it was like, you can't do, can't be anything together. Right. So that really put the kibosh on. So
Speaker 2:is that coming now? Like, is Denver, are there some smoking lounges? Oh, Denver has
Speaker 3:some amazing smoking lounges right now. And, uh, so, uh, Denver's doing it. Longmont looked at it and they, um, were in the process. I think they, they did allow it. I'm not sure of where we're at in Longmont. That's been kind of gone back and forth. But the big
Speaker 2:challenge is probably around, like, there isn't, aside from like a physical testing, there's not really a, a good system to figure out if you're too high. Smoke.
Speaker 3:That's true. Or to drive rather. Right? That's true. That's true. Um, but it's, I mean, same, same for going to a bar, right? Like the limitations should Yeah. Then they can put
Speaker 2:an arbitrary thing in.
Speaker 3:Well, with the bar, they're just like, you know, it's, it's 0.06
Speaker 2:or 0.08 or 0.10. You know,
Speaker 3:but the bartender doesn't know that. Right. They just know like how you're acting and know and how many you drinks you've had. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But they can throw you in jail and take a bunch of your money if you're over 0.08, you know, in Colorado. Whereas
Speaker 3:true
Speaker 2:if you just got red eyes, but there's not really a dependable,
Speaker 3:I mean, there's still DUI for marijuana. There is, there is, but
Speaker 2:there isn't really like a, it's, it's a lot a more arbitrary, isn't it? Or not, you
Speaker 3:know, I'm not a criminal defense attorney, so I'll back up, but I think that there is like an actual percentage of marijuana in your blood that you're allowed to have. Oh, really? Before it's like presumptively, A DUI. So it's a sim It honestly is similar. Oh, I
Speaker 4:didn't realize. And
Speaker 3:the state put in so many regs that were like, you know, you have to post. You know, ride sharing information, you have to post like resources of, you know, they have to not oversell you or whatever. So there are a lot of limitations put in the regs and you know, I think that there is a good system in place. Like I said, there's some really wonderful places in Denver that are just kicking ass on the, the hospitality. Yeah. And so it's just a matter of time, I think for Fort Collins to do that. But I have, I have a dream. I have a dream of opening. I have a dream. Do you wanna hear my dream? Sure. I wanna open a Jamaican restaurant here in Fort Collins because I lived in Florida for 20 years. Yeah. There's amazing Jamaican restaurants in there. Yeah. There's nothing like that here. Do
Speaker 2:you know about RAA Pasta?
Speaker 3:I've heard of RAA Pasta.
Speaker 2:So when, when I moved here, RAA Pasta was an institution. It was right on the corner of Walnut and Pine, I believe. Mm-hmm. Um, was there like a cider shop there or something? No, I forget. Anyway, right in that kind of downtown span, what happened? Tota
Speaker 7:pasta.
Speaker 2:I'm not really clear. They actually also had one in Colorado Springs. Okay. Um, but anyway, Rasta Pasta was like a, a super fast. Like they already had the, the pasta noodles kind of precooked. Okay. So they would just steam'em real quick. And then they had nine different, uh, sauce toppings. You know, everything from a jerk chicken sauce on your pasta noodles to a traditional marinara. Whatever.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 2:Uh, and they had all the weed style branding, all the Jamaican things. Oh, okay. That was the brand. Okay. That's the hook. Okay. And that was, but I think they closed like shortly into the marijuana is legal kind of tenure.
Speaker 3:Yeah. SNF sort of filled the, but I think there's room like for a long, the marijuana branding for
Speaker 2:an extended season, that was an institution for like at least 10, 15 years. Oh man. I have
Speaker 3:to say I've never had pasta when I went to Jamaica, but yeah. Be that as a me, more of a rice and beanie kind place, right? Yeah, exactly. The goal is to like jerk chicken, take it upstairs to the rooftop deck and smoke slips up there. That's my goal.
Speaker 2:So just upstairs you can be outside. It doesn't have to be. So
Speaker 3:yeah, it could be an outdoor, I mean, I think it could happen. Him, Fort Collins City Council.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'll talk to him about it if I get the chance.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm trying to gather, I'm trying to gather, uh, anecdotal stories from people who are already operating small businesses here in town that have a vision of how they could incorporate marijuana into their business model and sort of take that to the council and be like, listen, it's not just about a room of people smoking weed. Yeah. It's about, it's about experiences. Yeah. Yeah. Just like people want to go out and have experiences here in town, like why can't you have a consumption friendly, um, escape room, build business? There's a, a consumption friendly nail salon, a
Speaker 2:passionate couple that I wanna say they're like Russian and. Japanese or something like that where they're both places where they do a lot of saunas of various sorts. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so they want to have like a, yeah. Sauna, kind of a cannabis facility. Cannabis kind of thing. Yeah. But you, yeah, you can puff down before you hit the sauna, and then the cold plunge, and then the,
Speaker 3:this sounds great to me. This sounds great to me. You're a
Speaker 2:member already. I'm, yes. You're ready to sign. Find me up.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But
Speaker 2:so anything on the. Like radar for that, aside from like, it sounds like cities in general, Fort Collins, even Longmont, like they're not really receptive to some of the changes in regulations available to them or the, you know, having marijuana lounges and stuff.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say they're not receptive. The problem is it's not, they're not gonna come up with these ideas on their own.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And
Speaker 3:they really just need people to come. Say that this is what they want in their communities. Yeah. I mean, it really can can't, that sounds
Speaker 2:like a, a, a, a tab on your website where you're like, sign the petition to, uh, approve marijuana lounges in Fort Collins.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes and no. It doesn't, you don't necessarily need a petition. Um, well, I, no, but yeah,
Speaker 2:if you did that, you could kinda edit Oh, right. And then bring that with Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. No, I mean, uh, I joke about my marijuana lounge for, I don't joke. I, it would be great. I think I'd really just wanna patronize that place. I don't know if I wanna run it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I, I've, I've had my law firm for 10 years, but that would be
Speaker 2:a side hustle, or that would be potentially your main thing. If you could have it,
Speaker 3:it would be a side hustle. It's a dream. It's definitely a Dr. It's Rachel's Jamaican Dream Cafe. Um, I love my law firm. How about Jamaican
Speaker 2:dreams? Yeah. Uh, because that kind of cues into the
Speaker 3:Jamaican Dreams Cafe. I love, I like that. I, I'm in, sign me up. I'm, I'm getting hungry now. I mean, as a, as an attorney, you know, law firms are highly regulated. This's, why I tell my clients all the time is like, you think you're the only one that's regulated, and whether that's a liquor licensee, you know, or even just a restaurant, right? You have to get your food licenses. Sure. And inspections and da, da, da. You know, I can only operate in one state where I operate, where I have my license. So I'm licensed in three states. So those are the places I can operate. You know, I spend a ton of money investing in getting my legal degree, right? Passing the bar. I have to
Speaker 2:Big barrier to entry. Big barrier
Speaker 3:to entry, right? Um, tons of licensing fees.
Speaker 2:Well, if you do something like. Child trafficking or something like that, you're subject to losing your bar.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm subject to losing my bar if I don't call clients back.
Speaker 2:You know,
Speaker 3:like, I gotta, I gotta call clients back. Don't even
Speaker 2:have to get to the level of child trafficking.
Speaker 3:I, no, it doesn't even matter if you Yes. Does not even rise the level of committing a crime. And they could take my law license away. So, yeah, I mean, it's, I'm used to living by lots and lots of regulations and being an ethical attorney, I like to think I was scared straight when I was in law school. I, uh, interned at the Florida Supreme Court. I, I did, uh, law school in Florida.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 3:And all the cases I did that semester were all attorney discipline cases. So I was like front row, scared straight, like all these attorneys that were getting in trouble. I was like, I will never do anything interesting to. You know, to ab in, in any way imperil my law license,
Speaker 2:my, uh, my colleague from my rotary club, uh, do you know Daniel St. John?
Speaker 3:I'm so happy for Dan. I can't even tell you how happy and excited. He's a, he's a new judge. I, it makes me feel a little old because I'm like, oh God, my peers and contemporaries are coming. Judges I thought we'd get here. But yeah, he's gonna be an excellent judge. I'm really, really, really excited for, yeah, he seems
Speaker 2:like a pretty level headed guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. He's, uh, he's also a parent of young children and so, uh, we kind of commiserate a little bit there together on Cool. I dig it. Having, uh, you know, do all the lawyers know each
Speaker 2:other pretty much.
Speaker 3:A lot of lawyers know each other, especially in, you know, in a small community like this. So it's been really wonderful. It's Larimer County Bar Association's. Great. And the attorneys here are just, it's, it's a pretty small town here, so it's, it's really nice to know one another and be able to pick up the phone and talk.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about some of your other activities. Yeah. Uh, jazzer size. Yeah. Uh, distributor. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3:my real job instructor. That's why I tell people that's my real job and I'm a lawyer for fun. Um, yeah, I teach, I became a jazzer size instructor two weeks before I graduated law school because I felt like I started taking it in law school.'cause I was just sitting all the time reading Right. And not doing anything. And, um, someone told me it was, there was a Groupon and I was like, okay, if I just go to two classes, I will have earned the Groupon and I won't feel bad about buying this$35 Groupon. And I became hooked. I really loved, it's just dancing. It's music, it's fun, it's, you know, room full of people doing it together. So, um, you know, was an, was a customer for a couple years and then right before law school graduation, I was like, if I don't become an instructor and make this an obligation, I will quit and go to happy hour. Yeah. And I'll never ize again.
Speaker 2:That's what I was, I I I, I've been a runner and I know a lot of cause-based runner, like they have to be training for a race
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:To like run, to run Right. For you, you're like. I have to be the teacher. I'm an instructor, so I have to teach the class again. I can't let myself get too heavy between classes. Like
Speaker 3:absolutely not. Absolutely not. So, yeah, so I've been an instructor for, um, you know, like I said, I, I became a certified instructor 10 years now. Almost shoot, uh, longer, I mean,
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 3:13 years. Um, you know, and how do
Speaker 2:you practice it, your trade?
Speaker 3:Okay, so we have a jazzer size studio here in Fort Collins. Okay. That's a locally owned business. So Jazzer size is a, is a worldwide franchise. Do you wanna shout'em out? Yeah, yeah. It's called Jazzer Size. Fort Collins. Okay. We're in the, um, Midtown Commons Plaza where ARC thrift store is Oh, sure. In the Dollar Store. Yep. We're kind of tucked in the corner there. I teach Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 8:30 AM Okay. It's the funnest class. I love all the other instructors, but mine's, mine's definitely fun. It's the best one. The most fun. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Well, so
Speaker 2:if you're listening to this and you go to Jazzercize, make sure you mention too. Rachel that you heard about it on the local Experience podcast.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, but yeah, I love it. They, they give us new choreography every month. Brand new songs, brand new choreography. Um, how fun. Yeah, so very supportive. It's like a
Speaker 2:constantly changing thing and Totally. Do you mostly have regulars then in your classes? You build relationships or is it kind of drop in or both?
Speaker 3:Little bit of both. I have a, I have a ton of regulars at the eight 30 class. I mean, that's kind of a particular time, right? Like you can't have a regular like
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:Entre. It's a good entrepreneur class.
Speaker 2:What's the, what's the dude chick mix?
Speaker 3:Oh, we have one, one Token male. Okay. Um, he is, he heckles I've been to a
Speaker 2:number of yoga clubs over the years and it's usually, usually the token man. Yes.
Speaker 3:He heckles the shit outta me, but I love him. Um. Yeah. And I, we, we dance together. Um, but yeah, it's mostly women and women from ages twenties to seventies. I mean, it's, it's a really wide, wide gap of, of women who are there. Um, but yeah, it's just, it's supportive. It's dance. Um, people ask like, what makes it different than other group fitness classes? I literally, I'm on a stage, I'm wearing a microphone, I'm looking at you, I'm dancing with you, I'm telling you jokes and I'm telling you safety things. It's like the body
Speaker 2:pump thing that my wife does at home on looking at the tv.
Speaker 3:Right. At the tv. Exactly. Right, right. So some other, some other ones, they kinda make it up as they go and Yeah. You know, just don't really tell you, but kind of do like some hands, hands gesturing. So we are like telling you what to do and it's, I feel really supported because they give us choreography. We don't make it up. So if you take a class here or you take a class in Japan and we're doing the same song, it's gonna be the same choreography and they have like an exercise, um. Exercise scientist who like approves all the choreography, make sure we're not like doing anything crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's, I love it. It's so fun. It's, it's definitely Rachel in her raw form. Just gimme a microphone and an hour on stage it feels
Speaker 2:like. And how mu how much room do you have? Like, do you have room for another dozen more attendees?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. All right. I'll
Speaker 2:be spreading the word about you. Yeah,
Speaker 3:come on out. It's fun. We do, we'll do like party your team talk classes during holidays and that's when it gets pretty, pretty crowded. But otherwise, yeah, we got room. Come on out.
Speaker 2:The, uh, adjunct law professor for who? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, that's at DU Law down in Denver. Okay. Yep. They let me do it from home. So, uh, I work at the externship program, which I love because it's all, um, supervising law students who are placed in private law firms and learning like on the job. Learning, uh, yeah. You know, like apprenticeship style, which, you know, there is no formal requirement of an apprenticeship in the law. Sure. Which I believe there should be, but it's
Speaker 2:super useful. Oh my gosh. It's because you don't know shit when you get outta law school. It changed
Speaker 3:my life. When I went to, after the first year of law school, I was so overwhelmed with like, I, you should be on law review, you should be on moot court, you should be on mock trial, you should be doing all of these things. And I remember calling my mom and she was like, didn't you go to law school to help someone, like go get a job at a law firm helping people? And I was like, yeah. Yeah. That like helped me, you know, really wake me up. And before I went to law school, I was in the food service industry. So I met my husband making pizza, a pizza parlor. Nice. You know, I, I managed a Longhorn Steakhouse, so I went to meat school. Nice. I knew about cutting stakes, I knew about service. Love it. I had never worked in an office. I had never done. Dealt with a phone or scheduling Right. You know, a hearing,
Speaker 2:put an, an appointment on a calendar. Right. I'm
Speaker 3:aging myself. I never used a postage meter or a copy fax machine. Um, but I had to learn all that stuff. Right. So, you know, working, working as a a law student, um, changed my life. And so when I got the opportunity, you know, years later to now work with those students on behalf of the school and just, and it's great.'cause I don't have to, you know, I don't have to do seminars. I don't have to do a ton. It's minor homework. Yeah. It's like, what are your goals for this semester? How are you gonna, so I get to be like a pep rally. It, it's a great feedback loop because they, um, honestly just, it's so great to see people at the beginning of their career and they're just like, they're not jaded, right? They don't, they haven't seen a few things. They're like, they're very excited to learn. They're just like, you know, they're cool. So you don't teach
Speaker 2:classes necessarily. You're mostly just a spirit guide for them as they navigate this kind thing. I like that
Speaker 3:spirit guide, adjunct professor, spirit guide,
Speaker 2:A spirit and ethics guide. I mean,
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah. Totally. I, I mean, I make them ethics guide. I make them, um, meet with me in the middle of the semester. So, you know, at the beginning of the semester, they have to gimme the three goals that they want and like how they plan a game plan to get there. Yeah. Not, not just like, and then mid semester we check in, how you doing? Do you have to, have you had to pivot? Have you, you know, what's, what's going right, what's going wrong? How can we fix it? And then, um, you know, and at the end of the semester, like, what went right, what went wrong? Same thing. So really just a lot of like. Introspection. Yeah. Reflection
Speaker 2:how, and you're not staff at du, you can kinda give a little more perspective.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. And being in private practice, I think, you know, have a really Yeah. Start. Totally. So I, you know, every semester I get a few students who are like, I really wanna open my own firm. And so that, you know, they get to sort of see the experience of running firm and they're like, I wanna
Speaker 2:get in family law.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, and I'm like, could that lemme tell you about my experience with family law. No, I can't. I can't. Right. I can't ruin it for, I have to just keep it to myself really. So I do, I do. Wait, we need family attorneys. You know, we do. Because the ones who've been around a long time, some many have get burnt out, right? Yeah. Do other things. Super jade. Yeah. But people, people need that help. And you know, Colorado, uh, is one of the few states that have allowed, we have this thing called like a license. Paraprofessional thing where paralegals can now help people in certain areas of law. Yeah. Especially family. And that's important because there is this gap of access to lawyers. Yeah. When you're in family law issue, I can't tell you how often I see on like the Facebook groups, you know, the, the, the local Fort Collins or Loveland Facebook groups. Sure. You know, I really need a pro bono attorney and we have a really high conflict divorce and so many issues. And I'm like, that is a hard ask. That's a really hard ask. Yeah. And I, I don't admire, you know, I feel for anyone who has to face a legal situation and not a lot of cash to deal with it,
Speaker 2:it's, uh, well, and well, how do I wanna say it? Right? Like, what's that role when it's, it starts with an m when you try to like get to a reasonable outcome, A mediator outcome. A mediator. Mm-hmm. And there's a few of those kind of folks around Yeah. That just try to attempt to be the mediator Yeah. Of a, of a reasonable agreement kind of thing. And I really respect that sense of mentality because in part. Like whoever wins when the lawyers get the spurs out and start spurring, spurring, spurring, uh, the, the kids always lose. Oh, yeah. And the kid and the lawyers always win. And I've seen too many reasonably amicable divorces turn into a flaming dumpster fire shit show. Because guess what? The lawyers make more money when we fight longer and harder. Right,
Speaker 3:exactly. And it's
Speaker 2:just so yucky.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I feel that. And, um, anyway, that's why I soap bucks. I, I, I a hundred percent that, that's part of my sales pitch to my clients. Um, and, and not in the family world. But, you know, I certainly get my fair share of clients who are like, fight, you know, business arrangements going awry and I'm like, let's
Speaker 2:get this contract right on the front.
Speaker 3:Let's get it right on the front end. Or let's just say they did. You know, more often than not, I have clients who, they started a business on their own. They copy pasted some bylaws from the internet. You know, the thing about bylaws and like shareholders agreements and operating agreements is that like. If things are going fine, you never take it out of the drawer. It's right. It's like the, I call it the corporate prenup. It's like you never look at it, it's never issue thing, but when things do go sideways, that's where you're like, okay, we made these rules when we were getting along. Totally. We need to follow these rules. So most, a lot of companies don't have them, or just copy, paste didn't really take any, you know, interest in Yeah. Making them,
Speaker 2:yeah, what they want. Some people play dirty too. They're like, oh, according to this operating agreement, if we do a capital call
Speaker 3:and you can't fulfill and you can't do it right,
Speaker 2:then you're out. Well, here's the thing, like
Speaker 3:anyone who's ever filled out our questionnaire and it says, do you wanna have that requirement? Before I prepare the operating agreement, it's usually a no, right? A normal person wouldn't want that. But it's built in as like boiler plate standard. Boiler plate to certain, totally. Yeah. Or people who are pulling, ripping it off the internet or finding a form, or if
Speaker 2:the majority partner wants to be able to have that power and has
Speaker 3:Yeah. If it's negotiated. Sure. Right. Yeah. I mean, so I mean, my big part is listen, if you're gonna go to litigate, number one, you're not gonna get a lawyer as fun or cool as me'cause I'm not going to court. And number two, like you went into business to be. The boss to be the master of your domain. If there's any Seinfeld fans here, so like if you, if you wanna maintain control over your life, then part of that is having the hard conversations when disputes happen and solving those problems yourself. Because if you do have to go to court and you do have to get a litigators, number one. They're not as cool as me. Number two, they're three times more expensive than me.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Number
Speaker 3:three, you're not gonna get a resolution for about a year, probably
Speaker 4:right. Number
Speaker 3:four, it's gonna be decided by a guy in a robe who, you know what? God forbid, it happens before they're on lunch hour and they don't care whatsoever about your deal and they're starving. So like. I like your
Speaker 2:cynicism. That's really solid. Quite
Speaker 3:frankly, I'm just a business owner and I don't want to hand over decision making authority for my business to a complete stranger.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, a year down the road, somebody
Speaker 2:was like elected and then got reelected a bunch of times. Uh, Dan, if you will, nobody knows. I'm kidding. Anything. Dan's gonna be an excellent judge. He'll never be reelected. He'll be wonderful way. The fact that he rides his scooter to Rotary Club on a regular basis and like it's like 7:00
Speaker 5:AM Right.
Speaker 2:And like stops in the ace hardware for free popcorn sometimes and stuff. It all has me very suspicious that he may in fact be a marijuana consumer himself. Uh, but you probably couldn't tell me even if you knew. I
Speaker 5:don't know that about Dan, but if he did, I wouldn't hold it against him because it's legal in Colorado. Yeah. But he's a
Speaker 2:judge now.
Speaker 5:I mean, there's nothing against judges. I mean, as long as I'd rather my judge was not doing it on the job.
Speaker 2:Smart and prudent. Right. Right. So,
Speaker 3:I mean, listen, I. It's, I think it's funny that this conversation has gone from like, how awesome a judge to like, don't deal with judges, but really, I mean, like you said, like it, a lot of times it's, it's not the business that's gonna benefit from spending. Yeah. You know, multiple tens of thousands of dollars of litigating.
Speaker 2:So you get into litigation, your client gets into litigation, you just tap out, you're like, I tap out. I have to refer them. Oh, you have to.
Speaker 3:Well, I, I have to'cause that I am not competent in going to court.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. Like,
Speaker 3:I've made a choice to not be good at going to court to not know about objections and cross examinations. And
Speaker 2:you should not hire me as your litigation attorney. That's what I do.
Speaker 3:No, I focus everything on fair. All my homework on the, but legally
Speaker 2:you could, you got the bar, whatever. Oh, I
Speaker 3:totally could. Yes. Legally I could if they
Speaker 2:wanted to lose, because you get all emotionally tied up in the whole process and defensive or whatever. Wear
Speaker 3:my sneakers to court. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, I, it would not, it, it's not a good look. And, and again, I like, I love staying in my lane. I tell my, especially my marijuana clients, like when I start, I joke'cause I say, when I start growing the weed and you do the paperwork, like everything's gonna get messed up. Right? Yeah. So like, I'll do the paperwork, you grow the weed and everyone stay in their lane, but regardless, like staying in your lane, right. Knowing when. When you can help people with your professional services and or when you should
Speaker 2:tap out and Right. Tap somebody else in.
Speaker 3:That's right. Exactly. I, I tell people, tell me what your, what your issue is and I'll let you know if I can help you and I'll let you know if I can help you. We'll get you in good hands.
Speaker 2:Is it State Farm or something where they have the backup? Quarterback or the backup, this or that, uh, enter the game. I don't know if you've seen those commercials. I'll miss that commercial. They're relatively recent. They, it's like the husband is like trying to explain to his kids the birds and the bees, and he is like, well, sometimes, you know, when a man and a woman really love each other and, and they all tap in like some backup quarterback, like that's semi-famous, whatever he is like, you see Johnny and it's like, perfect. Right, right, right. Anyway, um, yeah, exactly. That's what we're talking about here.
Speaker 3:You know, if it's in my, if it's in my realm, I think I'm the best person for it. You know, uh, one thing I like to tell my clients too, especially the entrepreneur clients, is, you know, I own an firm, I'm a business owner. Yeah. I have had to make payroll, I have had, I have folk, I have faced these many of the same, you know, decisions that other entrepreneurs make. Um, you know, if you go to a big law firm and you work with, uh, a lawyer who has only ever collected a paycheck and doesn't know the things that go into running a business Yeah. Then you just, it's, you're just not doing yourself that favor of having someone who really knows what exactly it is you're going through. Yeah. And has lived that experience. Um, and another thing too about like some of these larger law firms is, you know, kind of like you talked about is they, they have to make their billable hours, right? Totally. They have to make, make their money. And if they don't hit their billable hours, they're not gonna get their big bonus. Or they're not, they're not gonna keep their job. Like, I don't have a billable hour requirement'cause I own the firm. I get to decide what cases I wanna take on. And as a small business owner, I understand. That you don't have endless money for the, for the bus, for the, the legal budget. Um, there should certainly be a legal budget to protect your business. But, um, you know, so, so that said, I'd much rather have my reach be much wider than, you know, than just bill one client to death. So if I can turn a client's matter, you know, for, you know, under$5,000 or under$3,000 and they're protected moving forward, and it enables them to earn 80,000 or a hundred thousand dollars for that work, I'd much rather that is, that is like why I'm in this business, is to help other small business owners. And so it's especially important to me now because I started my firm in Denver 10 years ago, and I moved here five years ago, but I didn't tell anyone that I moved here as far as my business. Okay. Like, I still had my firm headquartered in Denver. Denver
Speaker 2:was the focus of your client base
Speaker 3:and all that. It kind of was. And Well,'cause
Speaker 2:we were all zooming, zooming, zooming. We were zooming in. Right, exactly. And then.
Speaker 3:You know, so like, uh, now that I've got kids that are like in sch in elementary school here, you know, I, uh, I bought my house here. I, um, I moved my office to Midtown, uh, here in Fort Collins, and I'm like, I wanna help people. So you're gonna be
Speaker 2:selling cookies to support the local, your, your daughter's. Uh, oh God. Whatever. Brownies Club. Oh
Speaker 3:my God. Uh, I'm, I'm not on the PTA, that's the one thing I say no to. I'm like, just tell me where to write the check.
Speaker 2:I'll write a check. Fair enough. All day. Fair enough. Um, I want to call a short break. Yeah. And when we come back, we haven't talked about, uh, what is it? Harsh Shalum. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna ask. It's a good community. You were wearing your Hanukkah earrings.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. Second night of Hanukah.
Speaker 2:It is. Let's, let's,
Speaker 3:let's light it up.
Speaker 2:Be right back.
Speaker 3:As a business owner, you really. I tend to find myself feeling like I'm on an island sometimes.
Speaker 6:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:You don't have, like, the board of directors necessarily help, you know, to bounce ideas off of or whatever. Um, and so you have to find those things and so mastermind's great for that. I'm, I'm part of an organization called Wolf Women-Owned Law Firms. Okay. Colorado Wolf. And it's a bunch of small women owned law firms. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's different than just women attorneys because we all own the business. Right. And we're in the same sort of field, so it's like, how do we crowdsource that? You'll
Speaker 2:still have kind of common blind spots. That's true. That's, uh, which is why you should join a local chapter. I know. I need to join a
Speaker 3:local chapter. I, well wait, lemme get off the board of Harsh Shalom and then that'll be my next thing. What? That and leadership for Collins. I'm doing leadership for Collins right now. Now. Well,
Speaker 2:that does count.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, so, but you're our kind of people I guess I'd have, you know.
Speaker 3:Oh, thanks. I
Speaker 2:wanted to ask a potentially inflammatory question or curious question, right. I call it. But do you feel. Have you felt historically antisemitism in Fort Collins? And do you feel like that could be like, in a rising kind of weird way and like what, yeah.
Speaker 3:Great question.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like discriminated against you
Speaker 3:personally? I have never felt that way in Fort Collins. Okay. I've been here, I'm not, I haven't been here that long. I've been here five years, but I That's long
Speaker 2:enough to know though, if it was That's true. Regular.
Speaker 3:I personally have not experienced it. Um, as far as I know, we have not experienced that at Harsh Shalom. Um, I think we'd certainly get emails from weirdos. Um, there's like emails like on the, on the, like. On the website probably, you know, that they probably, um, but I'm not really in a position to get that. So like our executive director, she is vigilant. She is, she does every single training that there is available, there is a secured action network that immediately, you know, I
Speaker 2:wasn't thinking so much in the threat of violence, but more like just action, like, just feelings. People hiring you.
Speaker 3:Oh, people hire me. I mean, yeah, I've had that concern in that thought, but they're, they're just not for me.
Speaker 2:Like in Phil and in, in Florida there's probably a, it's
Speaker 3:depends, really. It's everywhere. I mean, northern color, Northern Florida is like southern Georgia
Speaker 2:Fair, so. Oh right. So if you there that up to Tallahassee, which ist really northern, but it feels northern. It is in some comparison. Oh, it is. Yeah. So, and was your, oh, your husband was, it's like the armpit of Florida, really? What was his other parent?
Speaker 3:She's Christian,
Speaker 2:something Christian, Catholic something. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So like, he grew up celebrating Christmas and like Gotcha, gotcha. He, um, loves Christmas, uh, not like from a religious sense. Sure. But like, we have a Christmas tree. That's my husband's Christmas tree. Right. And like, so, and you've got
Speaker 2:the Hanukkah candles or whatever do, we've got it all menorahs, whatever. Oh yeah. And
Speaker 3:like my in-laws are like so sweet. Like, and she like, has gotten me like, menorah, like ornaments on, on the tree. And so it's a riot. I mean, love it. It's all in good fun. Yeah. I, I'm okay with it. Um. You know, so my kids kinda get to experience a little bit of both. Yeah. But it's mostly from a tradition
Speaker 2:perspective. I'm, I'm just glad to hear that individual you haven't felt thing.
Speaker 3:No, I have not. I've always, you know, it's, it's certainly out there and it's something that we just, you know, you, it, even in south Florida, like I was in kind of west of West Palm Beach and it's, it was pretty, um, it was, there was, it was closer to much rural, more rural areas. Gotcha. And less Gotcha. Less, uh, you know, a lot of dirt roads and less, um, tolerant individuals or less, um, you know, open-minded people. And so
Speaker 4:I think people,
Speaker 3:yeah, so I, I have not personally experienced it, um, thank goodness, but, you know, um, there's a lot of idiots in the comments section. Well, so,
Speaker 2:you know, I'm on X sometimes and stuff. Right. Like, and it's just a weird place out there. Like,
Speaker 7:yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Like, I think it's just obvious to me that the, like having the common values and a shared understanding of. What the rules are and and the consequences if you don't follow the rules is like,
Speaker 3:yeah,
Speaker 2:we kinda gotta get back to that. Yeah. Your, your feelings be damned in some ways. You know,
Speaker 3:so many people are craving community and craving connection. And the shitty part about what's going on right now is that people are finding com community and connection over hatred.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm. And
Speaker 3:like, dislike and like all these negative things. And you know, uh, my mom taught me like, if you had nothing nice to say, like, don't say anything. Yeah. And like, that is just not really a rule that people are doing right now. And you know, obviously it's like speak out, say, you know, say what's on your mind, but also like, if it's not kind, you don't, you could, you don't, you can keep it to yourself. Sure. Your mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, you don't have, you can just scroll on pass or, you know, whatever. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's tricky being, um, an ultra minority in the sense Yeah. But also hiding in plain sight. Um, but no, I mean, yeah. What's, what I think what I face more is. If someone wants to hire a woman attorney versus a male attorney. Really? Yeah. Okay. And, uh, that was
Speaker 2:my backup question. No, actually, yeah. No, no. My
Speaker 3:colleague Brian, I haven't spent any time talking about him, but he's, he should phenomenal. He, uh, he's the other attorney in my law firm. He lives in Grand County. He brings
Speaker 2:the Riz too. He
Speaker 3:brings the Riz for sure. Um, he's also Jewish, but he's a man and sometimes people wanna hear from a man. Um, so no, Brian's great though. And he, if, if anyone here does plays hockey, um, he, you may have heard of the Grand Lake Pond Hockey Classic. Yeah. It's on their ninth or 10th year. It's a huge fundraiser they do in Grand Lake, on the lake, um, uh, hockey tournament. Yeah. And he's the Commis, he started that thing. Oh, cool. And he, it's all for, oh, how fun. It's all for charity for the town, and, um, I love it. Yeah. It's real wholesome. Good time. Fun. He, I'm like, so who, like, does
Speaker 2:he do the same kinda legal work as you or does he specialize in something different? I, it's like
Speaker 3:heaven on earth. It's so amazing. You're, it's carefree, you know. Well, and what was wild too is again, I went for the first three years when I was like young and stuff. And it was like, there was no Facebook, there was no right email on your phone. There was, it was the, what happens on Jam Cruise? Cruise. Cruise stays. Stays on Jam Cruise. Totally. Well, and then, so then I didn't go from like for like 10 years and then I went even more than 10. It was like 15 years. And so on that fourth year, even though I felt like I was new,'cause it was like Jam Cruise in the new era,
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 3:I got my robe, I was a lifer. And what year
Speaker 2:was this? Tell me this.
Speaker 3:That was 2022.
Speaker 2:Okay. So after the shock and awe of the whole industry stuff. And we like, you know what? And
Speaker 3:we know it might've been 23. It's like in January it's hard to things down
Speaker 2:enough. It's not crazy. I'm gonna do some jam cruise.
Speaker 3:Oh man. So much so and so, yeah, my best friend who was living here, she was afraid she was gonna lose her federal job. So she took another federal job in California just recently and she's my jam cruise buddy too. And um, we've been trying to, man, we're like jam crews 27.
Speaker 2:Well if you, uh, if you hear this and you buy your jam cruise tickets, it's the craziest time. Don't forget to mention that you heard about it on the Loco experience in the comment section,
Speaker 3:Loco Experience and Riz Legal. We can write this whole thing off.
Speaker 2:We could.
Speaker 3:I'm not a CPA, don't quote me on that, but I feel like, feel we could work some business we'll contracts right
Speaker 2:on trackers. Yes. That's a crazy good time. I will see you there. Maybe not until 2027. What month is this? 27. What month? It's
Speaker 3:usually like February. That's what
Speaker 2:I was thinking. It should be a February, kind of a Tuesday kind of style thing. You know,
Speaker 3:I lived in Florida for 20 years and I. Didn't realize how amazing it is that you need to get away in February when you work living in Colorado and
Speaker 2:they have like jerk chicken and stuff too on the menu. Probably. Probably seems like they should, but you don't go on jam cruise for the food. I'll tell you that. It's a cruise bun. Yeah, right. I dig it. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Thank you. It's wonderful. Been enjoy. Absolutely. Got speed.
