The LoCo Experience
The LoCo Experience is a long-form conversational podcast that dives deep into the journeys of business leaders, entrepreneurs, and changemakers in Northern Colorado. Hosted by Curt Bear, Founder of LoCo Think Tank, the show brings real, raw, and unfiltered conversations—where guests share their successes, struggles, and lessons learned along the way.
LoCo Think Tank is Colorado’s premier business peer advisory organization, founded in Fort Collins to help business owners gain perspective, accountability, and encouragement to grow both personally and professionally. LoCo chapters bring together business owners at all stages of the journey into professionally facilitated peer advisory chapters, led by experienced business veterans. These groups provide a trusted space to share challenges, seek advice, learn togethter, and support each other’s success.
The LoCo Experience Podcast extends this mission beyond the chapter meetings— bringing the wisdom, insights, and stories of local business leaders to a wider audience.
Our triad mission with this podcast is simple:
Inspire through real stories of resilience and success.
Educate by sharing valuable business insights.
Entertain with engaging, unfiltered conversations.
If you love “How I Built This” and the free-flowing style of Joe Rogan - but with a Northern Colorado focus - you’ll enjoy The LoCo Experience! Our closing segment, "The LoCo Experience," asks guests to share their craziest stories — and we get some doozies!
It’s a passion project with purpose, and we invite you to listen, follow, and share, and maybe consider sponsoring. Know someone with a great story? Nominate your favorite business leader for an episode!
The LoCo Experience
EXPERIENCE 209 | Scott Kissel - Executive Director of Sky Corral Ranch - Raised in Small Business, Educated in Ministry, Experienced with All of The Above
This week, I was pleased to spend time with Scott Kissel, Executive Director of Sky Corral Ranch - located near the top of the full-year drivable portion of Old Flowers Road in Bellvue, Colorado. LoCo Think Tank has held its annual Next Level Summit at Sky Corral the past two years, and we’re pleased to return this August for another amazing dose of mountain hospitality!
Scott has lived quite an interesting journey, growing up in a retail grocery family in South Fork, Colorado as a hard-working multi-sport athlete, finding faith and then drawing his family to it - and then attending Colorado Christian University in Denver. After college he soon found himself as a leader in Sales and Operations at Gibb’s Bagels and then Yancey’s Food Service - and then finding his way back to ministry as a Senior Executive with Timberline Church.
Scott shares many amazing business and faith stories in this episode, and also gives us a behind the scenes on the renovation, operation, and future plans at Sky Corral Ranch - so tune in and enjoy my conversation with Scott Kissel.
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Music By: A Brother's Fountain
This week I was pleased to spend time with Scott Kissel, Executive Director of Sky Corral Ranch, located near the top of the full year drivable portion of Old Flowers Road in Bellevue, Colorado. Loco Think Tank has held its annual Next Level Summit at Sky Corral the past two years, and we're pleased to return this August for another amazing dose of mountain hospitality. Scott has lived quite an interesting journey, growing up in a retail grocery family in South Fork, Colorado as a hard working multi sport athlete, finding faith and then drawing his family to it, and then attending Colorado Christian University in Denver. After college, he soon found himself as a leader in sales and operations at Gibbs Bagels and then Yancey's Food Service. And then finding his way back to ministry as a senior executive with Timberline Church. Scott shares many amazing business and faith stories in this episode, and also gives us a behind the scenes on the renovation operation and future plans at Sky Corral Ranch. So tune in and enjoy my conversation with Scott Kissel. Let's have some fun. Welcome to the Low Cove Experience Podcast. On this show, you'll get to know business and community leaders from all around Northern Colorado and beyond. Our guests share their stories, business stories, life stories, stories of triumph and of tragedy, and through it all, you'll be inspired and entertained. These conversations are real and raw, and no topics are off limits. So pop in a breath mint and get ready to meet our latest guest. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. My guest today is Scott Kissel and Scott is the executive director. The Sky Corral Ranch and uh, I think I want one of those jackets like that that rocks the sky corral colors. We can make that happen for you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Um, and so, I don't know, what percentage of people in Larimer County do you think know about the the Reimagined Sky Corral Ranch? Oh, man, it's gotta be low. It's kind of the best kept secret. 20% or something? Yeah, I was gonna say 20% or less. 30%? Yep. So for the 80 percenters. Uh, can you give a quick kind of overview, uh, a drone flyover of the operation at Sky Corral? Yeah. You bet. Yeah. Thank you. 105 acres, private venue for about 50 people. They can either stay overnight and enjoy all things mountain, or they can do corporate retreats and strategic planning. It's just got a little bit of everything, rock climbing. Fishing, hiking, canoe, kayak, stand up paddle board. Bears, turkeys, deers. Oh yeah, absolutely. Moose. Yeah, exactly. Hawks and eagles. It's just a, a great opportunity to pause in the mountains with people that you enjoy and it's just you. Just private. I dig it. And this is basically up the top of Old Flowers Road, kinda. That's correct. Stove Prairie area. Over Risk Canyon. Yep. Up Stove Prairie. Up Old Flowers Road. Just past Stove Prairie Elementary School. Three miles. Um. Um. Where does it make sense to kind of start with talking about Sky Corral? Do you want us to talk about Like some of the events and teams you've had there in recent years, it came back into service when, and when did you join the team? Well, the best place probably Kurt to start is just the leadership legacy. Couldn't be sitting here today without, you know, the 1950s, the Grubbs family, or who turned it into an old dude ranch, 1957 became operational. Okay. Then a long history of leaders, you know, from that point. Uh, but the point where it really came into a new found, you know, business model was in 2008 with Bill and Avis ward. Okay. A great couple and family from front range internet. No, no different. Nope. Different. He is a word. Yeah. Word. Petroleum. Yeah. Yeah. And so amazing family, Enid, Oklahoma, and they bought it in 2008 and really kind of put it on the map for, you know, family camps and just exciting getaways for people. And then they had it until 2015 and then they donated it. This is an amazing story of generosity to the community foundation. A great foundation in town that took it on as an asset and poured a million dollars into it for capital improvements. Uh, fire re, uh, suppression system kinda helped us dredge out the lake, set up another$1 million endowment with another foundation. And so that was Oh, like for, for maintenance kind of thing or something? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just after the Hyde Park fire of 2012. So this might. Sound weird, but I've had Kristin on from the Community Foundation and I know that they do investing in funds and donor directed things and stuff. This isn't the kind of investment that's really supposed to make a bunch of money. It's really preserving an asset for the community to use. Is that the right way to look at this? That is correct. Yeah. And so, uh, If they ever make any money on it, they'll be happy? No. It is probably one of the They probably could make They could. Yeah. Yeah. But there was just a unique opportunity for them to take us on as an asset. And we would not be in business today without the community foundation in Northern Colorado. That team has been amazing over the years. So like both the capital support and just even probably just awareness, like having a little, little, we'll call it a ranch yet, right? Like it's too small to be a working ranch and keep cattle or things like that to speak of. So it has to be. Touristy kind of oriented. Yes. But finding a voice in that marketplace is hard. Very hard. And uh, they were the experts in it. Yeah. So put a board of directors together and helped with all the capital, you know, campaign improvements and phenomenal partnership. Okay. And then in 20, uh, 18, uh, they turned it back over to Sky Corral Ranch, so it's now fully in our hands as a 5 0 1 C3. Oh, I see. So it almost had a incubation period. Correct. re transplanted the operating entity. And then is that where you came on? I came on a little bit later, almost four years ago, may of 2021. So during those COVID years, if you will, it just kind of was, uh, just limping by great reason to promote it to get a bunch of people together in the mountains and tight quarters. So, yeah, no, it was after they're seeing kind of the end of this. Period. They're like, okay, I guess it's time to get serious about this. Yes. Yeah. So Bill Ward and the other guy on the board, Andy Peterson got together with me and said, Hey, let's talk about this opportunity. Probably too early to get together to talk about an executive director, but we'd like to do that. And then the board agreed to give it a go. And so here I am almost four years later. What were you doing? Like, what were you, we'll jump in the time machine and get kind of more of your story, but what were you doing, like, going into that time? Yeah, at that time I was the Senior Executive Pastor at Timberline Church here in Fort Collins, Colorado. So, 14 years on staff at that church. It's been our home church since, uh, 30 years ago. Uh, and just was looking for a little bit of a change and wasn't sure what that meant. Seems like a pay cut. Yeah. Probably. Well, the, uh, Sky Corral Board has been, uh, been very good, very generous, very favorable, you know, for me. So grateful for that and the partnerships that we have. Yeah, but it's still probably a pretty big pick up from Timberline. I'm just saying, um, I know what those pastures are going to be, I'm just kidding. Um, so, so you were like seeing an opportunity and for sure, no question about it, but it's a big, complicated organization for sure. That's a, what, I don't know, a thousand person. More than that. Oh yeah. Well, 10, 000 call at home, 4, 500, yeah, 4, 500 on a weekend, all the campuses, so for sure a hundred staff. Right. Exactly. That's no play thing job there. They want you to actually work hard here. You just got to screw around a lot, kind of play rancher a little bit. Yeah. Glad hand people when they come up for conferences and stuff like that. Yeah. You're getting a little too personal. Sorry. I'm just seeing the benefit of this job change too. Yeah, definitely a big change going from that big of an organization to me being the sole, you know, employee of Sky Corral Ranch. And then we hire a bunch of contractors, which are phenomenal. And your team are awesome. Um, like the. The bang for buck on your catered food? Nobody can touch it. Like if anybody ever has a conference up there or something and they order food to be brought up from Fort Collins and with apologies to all the amazing Fort Collins caterers, they're foolish. Don't do it. Like, you'll regret it because you're gonna pay twice as much and it won't be It won't be half as good, probably. Ah, yeah. Yeah, Karen and Penny definitely spoil our group, so glad you had a good experience with that, Karen. Well, they're just so dedicated to service, too. You know, it's not just the quality of the food, but it's also just both, like, it's diversity, it's attentiveness. You know, when the lettuce is running low in the salad bar, they're, like, right out there before you get a chance to walk back and ask them. Yep. Pretty unique ladies blend of hospitality and catering and service. It's phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so what kind of groups do you? Host mostly like it's kind of a set up and you want to describe the grounds just a little bit in terms of like Like for me, it was like, okay, this doesn't really work for like a couples Kind of outing or whatever, cause there's a lot of like bunk rooms and stuff like that. Mostly a bunk style model, uh, overnight, but during the day we can host, you know, corporate retreats, but we mostly have large groups that don't mind multiple people in a room sharing bunks, keeps the costs down and then they can just enjoy, you know, their whole group and their whole facility, fit a bunch of people into a small place. Absolutely. So it's like a big men's group thing. Skateboarders group I remember was either coming in or leaving last year. Yes, Camp Good Buddy, phenomenal organization, partner organization. They book three and a half weeks of skateboarding camps every summer, pretty much the month of July. What kind of skateboarding facilities do you have up there? They actually built everything. They have a half pipe. Yeah. They have a nice half pipe up the road behind the lodge. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. And then over at the barn, they have some mini ramps and then the sport court, which is between our two main buildings, they turn that into a full on skate park, ramps and rails, and they set it up and then tear it down when they're done. Wow. It is pretty unique. But yes, skateboarding camps, men's retreats, women's retreats, environmental groups, uh, we have a lot of student organizations, mostly because of another foundation. I have to give them a shout out, Enander Family Foundation. If it's faith based and student related, they get 50 percent off of whatever rate Sky Corral charges. Oh, is that right? Heavy student groups, May through October. Okay. You know, mostly when school's out. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty phenomenal. That makes sense. And did you do mixed? Students to do boys and girls, boys rooms and girls rooms. Correct. Yeah. And then you've got like bunk rooms for like four or six kind of four, six or eight. And then we have a couple outlying cabins that can, people can stay there too with other bunks and counselors can be kind of thing when they're ready to take a break from the craziness. Right, right. Well, it sounds like a perfect like youth camp of if it's small size. Yes. Up to 50. Could you. Build more and host bigger groups. That's the hope we're working on a strategic planning session right now to kind of look at the next three to five years. And what do we want to do? The dream would be to have a hundred bed bunk house on the hill, and then turn the lodge back into a marriage retreat, corporate retreat, where it's a king or a queen bed, private, similar to a hotel, because right now we don't have that. And we know we want to go that direction. Oh yeah. That would actually probably work pretty good. Really good. That we're returning to down a lot of groups that would love just to have some private, you know, rooms for their group. So getting ready to do a capital campaign, kind of, is that how that works in your situation? Just the very beginning stages of it with some great people on the board that are saying, let's talk about it. What do we want to raise the money for? And how long will it take? Well, and part of the benefit of your former position with Timberline is, you know, like who the deep pockets are over there. We have a very generous community, Kurt, for sure. I'm very thankful for it. And the nonprofit community here in Larimer County is off the charts as well. We're grateful for all of it. Can we talk about, uh, maybe some highlights, um, you spend a fair bit of time up there on the ranch, especially when you've got guests up there and stuff. You're usually there to greet them or send them off at least and whatnot. But what are some of the highlights of the really? You've got, like, I mentioned that summer of 21 was pretty slow still. So you've got two seasons effectively. Really done now? And are you closed in the wintertime? Are you still rocking it up there? You can still, it's still, you got the fires going and whatnot? Yeah, we're open year round. We just winterize a couple of our buildings, but the lodge and then the community room. Open year round, we can host, you know, people all the time, but, uh, yes, no, surprisingly may through, you know, August of 2021, wasn't terribly slow. It just, people had to manage the COVID requirements and the masks and things, but, uh, it was, you know, slower, they were, yeah, they wanted, they were like up in the mountains. Let's, this is fine. Our group is, we know our, we're not sharing space with another group. So it tattletales right around here. Nothing like that. Nope. Yeah. So 24 just saw, you know, tremendous growth as far as our groups that booked and then came back and then told other groups, so now we have a log jam in the summer and we're just trying to figure out how to expand our shoulder seasons right now. Yeah. You know, one thing we're going to have to dip into and maybe we'll even do it. Sooner than later, but the like managing a giant church like that with 4, 000 people and stuff I know how our church managed during kovat nation, but we're gonna have to talk a little bit about that, too So don't forget definitely a conversation to have for sure. Okay. Yeah Um, but the highlights, you were just talking about the highlights and, uh, with, I have Karen Steadman. She is a contractor that we contract with. She lives a mile from the property, phenomenal host. So she does a lot of the day to day stuff, hospitality, greeting groups, orientation. And then when I'm up there, my highlight is really just floating around, seeing people. She kind of makes the thing work. Oh my gosh. And you make sure there's customers. Correct. Yep. They say I'm the house works. Yeah, I'm the face of Sky Corral down here in town. Community networking, fundraising, all of that, and then Karen has boots on the ground to be able to make sure everything is running smoothly. Whatever else. Correct. Yeah, but my highlights are just seeing groups. Fulfilling their mission and their purpose for their stay up there. Yeah. And then how can we help them? Okay. Well, thanks for hosting Loco Think Tank. We've had two years in a row now, our next level summit up there for our largest kind of premium memberships at Loco and it's just so. Perfect size and shape like having the separate meeting rooms for some of the training and workshoppy things and then go back to the lunchroom and grab lunch and then go back over there and, you know, Well, we're glad and you guys, uh, turkeys, it's nothing like it really isn't. Yeah. And you guys are great. You provide us with so many great pictures and videos. So hats off to you and your team because we lean on you a lot for those. Thank you. Thank you. And have you gotten any, uh, any Like other business from our members over the last couple of years yet or yes, a couple of them. I don't remember the day things for sure that attended your, your seminar and say, Hey, we want to come back part of the goal. That's why you gave us the hookup that first time. Yes, absolutely. And we're looking forward to having you back again. Well, we're looking for the hookup again. We can talk about that. So should we talk about the vision a little bit more for Sky Corral? Sounds good. So if you do this, It's a hundred person bunk house. I imagine again, kind of the four, sixes, eights, kind of different, smaller and larger rooms. Um, maybe a couple of floors I imagine, or multiple even, so you can segregate the girls from the boys even easier and stuff like that. Put tape in the doors, whatnot. Um, and then like, do you need other facilities, maybe a bigger kitchen probably to serve all that and whatnot. Is that part of the vision? It is. Yeah. The lower level of that bunk house would be more like a conference center, uh, would be uh, what we would have on the bottom where larger commercial kitchen, easier to serve, meeting space as well on that very bottom level of that kinda designed for that purpose. Correct. Instead of make it work. Correct. Yep. Got it. Got a lot more space. And then the upstairs would just be whatever, all the lodging, six rooms or eight rooms. That's correct. Or something like that's, yeah. Okay. Cool. Mm-hmm And probably. I don't know how the county feels about it, but can you put like, I guess you don't have that many flat spots, but I was thinking pads for like little cabinets and stuff like that, too. Yeah, the board that has served at Skycrawl for a lot of years has always talked about either like yurts or tent pads or things like that. So we have a lot of different, you know, spots. Have you been up to Avalanche Ranch before? No. They, uh, it's a hot springs up kind of not too far outside of Carbondale. Okay. And among, they've got a number of cabins and things, but they also have covered wagons. Oh man. With little propane heaters in the covered wagons. So you sleep in them? Yeah, yeah. If the wagon is rocking, don't come and occupy it. Uh, but yeah, they're just a little wagon. And they just, you just park them in a flat spot. And, uh, they seem to do the trick for them. And it would be kind of on theme for your Yeah, we're looking for all kinds of creative ways to be able to have more people up there. Saunas. You could use some saunas up there as well. Uh, a built in sauna. I've got a future guest coming on the podcast here I can introduce you to. Cause that would be a fun thing for any kind of retreat, right? Right. Just have that opportunity and uh, you know, don't have to have a gym membership or go to, Norway. Right. Right. We have the cold plunge taken care of with our lake, you know, but yeah, but the sauna put the sauna house down by the lake, you could put a word burning sauna right down in there. Double win. I like it. Okay. Capital campaign people. When you listen to this, make sure you don't forget the 12 person wood burning sauna down by the lake. We do take donor designated funds. Right. Perfect. Um, so anything else that would really be required to serve that. You know, what would then be 150 person size, probably community in that range. And then obviously need to work with the County and make sure we're going about it. Right. How about sewer system and stuff? Is it all septic up there? So that would be another thing that would, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Different septics for each of our facilities. And that would require its own with acres. You got the a hundred acres. So yeah, makes sense. And typically it's really good. As long as you, you know, keep it living within its means. That's right. Maintenance is key. Yep. Yep. And, and overflow is bad. Very bad. Nobody wants that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what else should people really know about the ranch? Uh, Do you want to talk about like how much it costs or anything like that? Or is that more of a negotiable based on the size of your group or? Yeah, no, it's, it's flexible for sure. And our peak season, May to October, you know, typically ranges around 115 a person and that covers everything on the property except our rock climbing wall. And catering. And so that's for staying there too. Yeah, correct. Okay. It was pretty much using everything on the property. So 115 per person per night is a fantastic rate to enjoy all 105 acres and all the activities that it comes with. So that's primary, but yes, it depends on the season, size of group, how much they need. If you're five people, we might not be able to give you the whole place. Correct. Minimum typically is 20, but we do, I just hate turning people away. I'm just being honest. So, so we can negotiate that. And if we're not booked and it's only three weeks out. Correct. I'm easier. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we want people to use it. Have you got, have you had any previous experience with kind of lodging type? Businesses or whatever that really isn't applicable. Maybe that's not on the lodging side, you know, I grew up down by Alamosa So between Alamosa and Pagosa Springs family business mom and pop grocery store sporting goods hardware all of that the whole family worked there So that's where business, you know really began, you know for me and that's kind of the roots of that Okay, so but no not on the lodging sit there. I mean, let's do it. Mom and dad told you more event, you know, it's an event space. Ultimately not right. Karen handles the lodging part. So hospitality and lodging, you know, my coworker would be the one that does that. So I'm more on the people side, the marketing side, all of that food industry for sure did a six years at Gibbs bagels, uh, here in Fort Collins and had a great stretch with them. And so learned a lot about the food industry and so business when I was a kid and then some food industry later in life. Well, let's, uh, you know, if there isn't a lot more to say about the Sky Corral kind of projects ahead, I think we can zoom back and jump in the time machine to Little Scotty. Yeah, no, sounds great. Sweepin the floor at the grocery store, hardware store, everything else store in Alamosa. Was it, it was probably the, the, At least one of a few everything stores, if not the only. Yep, we had two in town, uh, Foothills Market was ours, and uh, Rainbow Grocery was the other one. But yeah, we wanted to move out of California and be in a small town. So my dad said, let's go to South Fork, Colorado, population 300. Oh, South Fork. Yes, that's different than Alamosa. Yeah. Did you live in South Fork? We did. The store was in Alamosa? No, store, I say Alamosa, Kurt, because nobody knows where South Fork is. Oh yeah, South Fork is nothing. 300 people, we live there and work there. It's a flat spot on the way down from Wolf Creek Pass, if I remember correctly. That's right, that was my ski haven as a kid. Would ski 40 times a winter, for sure. So were you born in California then? Yeah, Thousand Oaks. Okay. Yep. Which is, that's LA area, or what is Thousand Oaks? Orange County. Orange County, okay. Yep. Orange County before Orange County was Orange County, kind of thing? Yeah, for sure. And, uh, so you're just a little guy though, you arrive in the mountains. Did you have, what was the situation? Like, what were your parents doing? What were they escaping from? Yeah, so my mom and dad, my dad worked for Litton Industries, was in on the executive team there. Kind of a corporate guy, what's Litton do? I couldn't tell you stuff like depressed the worker and, uh, maximize profits for their shareholders. Yeah. You know, and then my mom was administrative assistant and so they just were excited to just, you know, start in a small town and raise our family. So I have an older sister and an older brother. Okay. And we all worked in the store together. Literally, Kurt, our house, I could walk there in 60 seconds. So house was right behind the store. And so it was just a really nice setup for how far is South Fork from from Alamosa? One hour, give or take. Okay. Yeah. South Fork kind of the Only town with that kind of stuff? Uh, so it goes Alamosa, Monta Vista, Del Norte, and then South Fork. So South Fork would be the small town before you go to Pagosa Springs or you go up to Creed, Colorado. Man, it just seems hard to have enough customers to make a store work. And that's why you sold everything but the kitchen sink, I guess. That's correct. Well, summers we went, our town was 300 and we went to 3, 000 in the summer. All the tourists, you know, the people want to come to the mountains and enjoy all things there. Uh, that was when we capitalized on the tourism, similar to Estes Park, yeah, you capitalize when, uh, when people are there and then in the winter, you know, Wolf, Wolf, Wolf Creek just being up the road, massive ski, you know, lots of people from out of state would come and enjoy skiing. So it was really a, a, a seasonal business, very much so dead as a doornail a lot of times during the, you know, in October, the doorbell ain't hardly ringing. That's right. And that's why family business, buying groceries and whatever. That's why you could adjust as a family. You just figure it out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, what was the motivating event, if I may, if your folks talked about it? Like, were they come from small towns and made it to Thousand Oaks? Or like, how the hell did they come to South Park? I know. They just were really looking for a serious Pace of life change. And I find that interesting now with working at sky Corral, because that's what it is up on the mountain. It's a serious change of pace. Yeah. Uh, so I'm kind of feeling like it's a full circle moment for me. Like, Oh my gosh, am I parents? Am I my parents taking a change of pace? But that's just what they did. And they just found South Fork and said, that's, that's the place for us. Found a business that was for sale and they jumped on it. What an interesting, like, uh, I don't know, just to, to me, to be imagining somebody from like a rapidly developing hop in California back in those days, especially it wasn't a miserable homeless bill, but to just like, how do you, how do you even learn about it? Like there wasn't an internet or nothing, you know, just, uh, people that he knew had been through that area and told him about it. Huh. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. The funny story that everybody tells in my family is my brother graduated class of one. So when people talk about small town, they're just like, what? What do you mean he graduated class of one? So that's a unique and interesting trait of our family. I'm a class of five. Oh man. So I've never met anybody that graduated with a smaller class than me. I don't think. I was 33. So I have not met anybody else under 10. was a class of one? He must have merged schools. Uh, yeah, but I went to the consolidated school. These classes of one are just not going to work out very good. Right. Oh my gosh. Where were you? Uh, North Dakota. Okay. Central North Dakota. Kind of, uh, I don't know if you know where Jamestown is. It's halfway between Bismarck and Fargo. I do. And I'm from, uh, North Dakota. 12 miles north of there. Okay. A little village called Buchanan. Yeah. Classified. Yeah. Yeah. I, I'd like to say I comprise the top 20th percentile of my high school class just to see how good people are at math. Oh, that's great. Yeah. My brother's claim was it didn't matter what his GPA was. He'd be valedictorian anyway. Um, what a fascinating, so talk to me about like. How many kids were around? Were you kind of free range raised? Um, and like, what was little Scott like when you were seven, eight, 10 years old, whatever. Yep. Out on the bike, going to hang out with friends. Just got to be home by dark. Lots of basketball, lots of baseball. Lighting fires with hairspray. Oh my gosh. Dumb stuff like that. Oh, totally. Lighting parts through a, you know, a PVC pipe, seeing who could launch them the farthest. Lots of fishing and rafting and, you know, in the winter, snowmobiling, ice fishing. I mean, it was truly a mecca for a kid, you know, to grow up in that area. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. I've only been through a couple few times, honestly, but I know it's gorgeous. So, uh, I'm sure the springs were especially, like, I've barely been there in the spring because it's too late for skiing, but it's But it has to be remarkable just to see that the transformation from so much white to so much green. Yes. It's phenomenal every year and you'd get excited because then you can start being outside and enjoying all things being out. You've been cooped up the whole time. That's correct. Yeah, we always went to bed with a snow shovel inside of our door because a lot of times we'd open the door and you can't really get out. Right. So we'd have to shovel from inside to get out. So, you kind of evolved, developed, and how many kids, like, talk to me about your, like, your school that you went to. Yep, so I went to one town over called Del Norte. Wanted to start playing sports, and when you're in a small school, like my brother was, not really opportunities for sports. So I went to the Consolidated School in Del Norte. And that's like a town of 5, 000 or something. Man, I don't even know. Now, yeah, probably. But, uh, yeah, then it was just a little bit bigger than South Fork, but that's where most of the kids in the area. They still can only field nine kids for the basketball team, but yeah. Yeah, well, and my wife always thinks this is a joke, but the football team at halftime Part of the team would be in the band as well. So they're out there on the field in their uniform playing in the band. And my wife's saying, that's not possible. I'm like, it is because they don't have enough to do both. They don't have a saxophone. If the tight end doesn't get out, I actually, so I was. In my 7th grade year, so we, we, we actually merged with Pingree, so we were Pingree Buchanan High School that I graduated from, even though it was two towns that made five kids. But in my 7th, no, in my 6th grade year, me and my, my cousin, my, my dad's youngest brother, my, my uncle cousin, um, got called up from 6th grade to play on the B squad for the 7th grade. through 9th grade team basically, the JV team. And then in 7th grade, we both got called up to play in the varsity because some kids got caught with minor in possession and they just didn't have a team. So in 7th grade, I was like the first man off the bench on the point guard position. I was playing on the varsity, so I would play the B squad for the first half, and then me and Jim would go into the locker room to get ready for the A squad game that was immediately following that, and then we would get our asses kicked. We went like 5 and 46 or something over three years that I played 7th, grade, and then I was, and the coach was terrible, and the team was terrible, and I just got fed up and quit. Yeah, we need to get together after the podcast Oh, for sure. Um, but it toughens you up. Oh, for sure. For future years. Correct. So I'm guessing you're both a good athlete and a good student going through these years. You know, you're a pretty big guy, right? Small town like that. You can kind of make hay. Yeah. I was kind of a freak of nature as far as, you know, size goes, you know, as an athlete for sure. And then. Were you like super big already? Like seventh grade? I was. Like how big? Oh, man. I mean, when I was in high school, I mean, I was 6'3 6'4 you know, a freshman, you know, in high school. Right. Yeah. When I was 12, I grew so fast, I popped out of my hip joints. Oh, dang. And so, yeah, they had to bolt them closed, you know, to, to take care of that. Okay. So, I joke, I'd be 7 if they didn't bolt my hips closed. Well, too bad for you, I guess. So, yeah, loved athletics. Loved athletics and, uh, I did my best at school and had a good time. And what were your sports? Basketball primarily. Okay. And then baseball and track. Okay. What was your position in baseball? Uh, pitcher and first base. Nice. Yeah. When you're tall and lanky. Yeah. That's the two spots they want to stick you. Well, if you're scared of the grounders. Uh, and I was honestly, I was a third base shortstop and a pitcher, actually my, my claim to fame. And you're about my age. I think maybe I'm 53. I'm 50. Okay. So, uh, in little league in 12th or 13 year old kind of little league. So my mom founded our eighth grade. Or 8 year old, yeah, 8th grade little league team, or whatever that was, in our town. The Google speaker is talking to us, but my mom founded our, when I was 8 years old, she founded a little league baseball team, cause she was a long time fast pitch. Um, softball player. Yeah. And she, she rounded up a team from this 50 person high school, of the right age kids, just enough to make a team with, like, two people in a bench. Oh, man. Um, but then, eventually I played baseball and then I went to town to play for one year, uh, before the farm demanded my attention. Um, but, Darren Erstad, uh, was Um, the most famous kid from our town at the time, and he was first draft picked by the angels. Wow. Uh, back in the day. And he won several golden gloves and I struck him out twice in one game. There you go. That's a big deal. He hit 800 and like home runs half the time. How'd you strike him out? What was the plan? Um, you know. Honestly, it was keep it outside, keep it low and outside because he, he couldn't quite reach those because he was, he was built like you already, like an eighth grade and he just couldn't quite reach it. He knew he wanted to tap it out on me, but so I just made it, had to make him want it, you know, basically that was the strategy. That's awesome. And, uh, and, uh, you know, push them inside once in a while to be able to sort it. Keep them guessing. Yeah. You can't just throw it outside. But that was the, that was the strikeout pitch. Anyway, I digress. You don't know who Jared Nerstad is? I don't. Oh, he's a super famous baseball player. Okay. He challenged Rod Carew's batting championship one year back in like 2007 or so. He was batting over 400 for part of the season. Wow. Yeah. That's impressive. And then he totally flaked out. Darren, sorry. Yeah. It was a weak play. I digress. Darren, if you want to come on my podcast sometime, you're like the most famous person from Jamestown, North Dakota. And so if anybody out there is listening and knows Darren and wants to introduce, then you're, I'll put you up. I'll put you up in Fort Collins for the night. There you go. Or up at Sky Corral Ranch. We can do that too. Up at Sky Corral Ranch. Yeah. Yeah. We'll give you a So, so you're this stud football, not football. I know parents wouldn't let me play. They didn't want me to get hurt. Oh, too violent. Basketball. You got to keep your health for basketball. Interesting. Yeah. Because you were better at basketball or just. Yes, for sure. Okay. Yeah. That is one of my biggest regrets is to not have played football. Really? For sure. Interesting. I'd go back and do it again. You got a body for it, for sure. That's what they tell me. I hated playing guys like you in basketball. Like, I'm good if everybody's like, Bye. Bye. Six foot and skinny, but you put a six, four heavy guy in there and they just shut me down. Yeah, sorry, just saying, just saying so annoying. I know. Well, well, my first basketball game memory, we lost 124 to 24 dude. So to lose by a hundred points, you know, I should have just hung up my tennis shoes right then and there. In the. County tournament against the Woodworth Pettibone Robinson Wolfpack. We lost a hundred and thirteen to fifteen. Oh, see, they fell just short of beating us by a hundred points. Those guys were such assholes. That's just not right. It isn't, but it builds character. Absolutely. So, did you, like, go off to college on a basketball scholarship, I'm gonna say? I did, yes. I had the, uh, the privilege of playing at Colorado Christian University for four years. I wanted to stay in state. You wanted to keep getting beat badly for a few more years. So is your dad a pastor or something or were you raising a Christian family though? Yeah. So I was pretty much the first is going to church. It's a pretty unique story, but I don't have time for it today. No, let's, let's, let's zoom in there. Okay. No, I appreciate it. Like you started hanging out with your friends and stuff. And one of the friends was like, Hey, let's check out this church thing. Even more unique than that. So I told you that we have an influx of tourists in the summer. Sure. Uh, we had a lady named Edie Boatwright that would come in and do her grocery shopping every single Sunday in the summer. And she's your wife now? Nope. Nope. She was a 65 year old woman. Okay. Uh, you know, doing her grocery shopping. And so once she got to know us, she said, asked my mom and dad, hey, can I take your son to church? So from when I was 5 until I was 8, every Sunday in the summer. I would go to church. Really? Yup. So. And why did she ask them that? She just was a diehard church person from Plainview, Texas. Yeah. And she's like, this young man probably needs to the Texans are thick, right? Like half of that extra 3, 000 people was Texans. Oh, for sure. Right. A hundred percent. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and so that was my, my introduction to church. And you just started going to Sunday school in what church? If I may. Yeah, it was called Emanuel Chapel in South Fork. So pretty much an independent kind of little church kind of thing? Pretty much everyone in town would either go there or to the Catholic church. Right. Those were the two that really. You know, dominated the population and, uh, and then that's where I just became a churchgoer and, and, uh, started a relationship with Jesus family followed you. They did. We grew up Catholic, so, you know, religion, you know, structured churches in our world for a lot of years. But then as far as making a shift, uh, Emmanuel chapel, my mom, my dad, yeah, brother and sister and pretty unique. Can you describe like how that went down? Kind of like you said, five to eight, it was you. And then like, it started trickling in or like talk to me. Were you just, I mean, not to make it about that, but this is a really interesting story. I appreciate you asking. Yeah. Cause it's all about relationships. So if it weren't for Edie Boatwright making a difference in my life as a little five year old, I wouldn't be where I am as far as a person of faith. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, so no, it just, I went to vacation Bible school when I was eight, uh, which is a basically an everyday thing for, you know, a church that would do things for the students, and I never remembered one thing they talked about, but I remember the stories about Jesus that he would tell me in the car going and coming back and that's what stuck. And so that's really where it was and then I would come home and tell my mom and dad about you got to hear this story that Edie told me today and then it just led to that. It's all parables mostly. Pretty much. Stories. That's what it's full of. Yeah. And then they were like, Let's give it a try. Let's try it. Absolutely. Like they didn't, did they, had they, they just kind of rejected? Catholicism, I guess, because they weren't going to the Catholic church in town, even though they came from that background. No, they were. We were going to the Catholic church, uh, when we first moved to town. And so then they just made a shift. They said, you know what, Scott really loves this church. Yeah, exactly. And, uh, so let's go where Edie and Scott go. Yeah. And then we just never looked back. My mom became the Sunday school superintendent at the church. Interesting. Not very much long after. So we really went all in as a family. I grew up in a town and it's funny how Similar, our experiences are with you, like just off the mountains of Colorado and me in the midst of the prairies of North Dakota. But we had a Catholic church and a Lutheran church. And pretty much everybody was Catholic or Lutheran. My family was congregational. We went to the church in town that Grandma had gone to. Turns out it wasn't really a church. Like, I didn't know the good news until I was 25. So, they missed the mark in that respect. But Like, nobody cared if you were Catholic or Lutheran except if you started dating a girl. On the opposite team or something like that, like that was my observation. Like, I've always been an observer of people. I wasn't dating because I was five foot one and with a mullet, you know, but, um, Got to see a picture sometime. You can, I'll show you one. But, uh, but that was kind of the rules. Like it was all cool. There was no religious strife or disposition unless, you know, the Catholic girl wanted to date the Lutheran boy and vice versa. And then things were weird. It's true. Was that that way for you too? Yeah, and our church was, you know, very strict on the religious side of things. So they were like Baptist plus? Yeah, it was called non denominational, but yeah, more on the Baptist side I would say. Fair enough. Okay, well that's where the good Texans come from, right? Right. So, so your family gets further and further involved, your brothers, brother and sister rather, right? Yep, they did, yeah, older brother, older sister, you know, at that time, yeah. And then, uh, So that's why ultimately you went to CCU. Correct. Yeah, fair enough. That's where my, uh, my nephew goes right now. He's gonna finish up, uh, he's got a, uh, he's been their master flutist for a few years. Uh, Isaiah Johnson. Uh, he was a piano amazing kid at like 11 and then switched to the flute and he's been their first chair for, and he's gonna probably cure cancer or something, I don't know. Man, good for him. Yeah. Yeah. And he's been really enjoying that community and was just telling, My wife, he's going to Sweden and some kind of a exchange kind of thing with some of his friends. Wow, good for him. The university's changed a lot over the years. We were actually the first graduating class because Colorado Baptist University and Colorado Christian College okay merged and so we were freshmen the first year of the merger so we were technically the first graduating class of Colorado Christian University. So you're the center on the basketball team or more of a forward, power forward style, six, seven, six, 10 people from Nigeria. So I was definitely not the tallest. All right. Fair enough for sure. That's where the Nigeria is, where they make the best basketball players and some of the best Christians. Yeah, they're good. So, so your experience there was pretty amazing. It was, um, did you find a girl there too? Or I did my current wife right now. All right. So we dated as freshmen all the way through and got married when we graduated. Awesome. Have three kids now. So twenty six, twenty four are our daughters and our son is twenty. We'll let you zoom in on the family in a moment. Okay. Um. So, what's your, like, show me, talk to me about your career trajectory, just a little bit. Like, uh, you get out of college, you're studying. Well, when I was in college, I started out as business. Uh, the plan was to go back and take over the family business. I went and worked at a sports camp in Branson, Missouri, called Camp Canicook. Okay. And at that camp, I decided, you know what? I want to work with students. And so I went back, changed my major from business to youth ministry. Oh, wow. Until the last three years of college, I was focused on that. And then that's where the church introduction as far as a staff position began. Is there a church associated with CCU? There is not multiple churches in the area. Yeah. And they all welcome CCU students. Of course they do. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so we went to Bear Valley Church when we were down there, and that's when I worked with the youth group and thought, you know what, I think I want to go into this for a career. I've been to Bear Valley Brewery. I think that's right up the road there. I think it is up the road. So, you get into ministry right out of the gate. I did. I worked for Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Uh, so it came up to Fort Collins. That's what moved us up here. Okay. They were opening an office for FCA, is what it was called. And they said, hey, they knew me through college because I was involved, uh, as an athlete with FCA. Yeah. And so, yeah. That's surprising that, so you were the founder, really, of the FCA locally? Not the founder, but the first worker here? For, yeah, for Northern Colorado. They said, hey, we want you to be our first, uh, Northern Colorado director. That seems really surprising that they wouldn't have taken, like, a CSU athlete. I know, and the main reason they started it was there was 200 people going to the Colorado State University FCA huddle. Oh dang. So there was a bunch going and that's why they wanted to open an office. Interesting. Well, it's kind of sweet that they already had a captive audience for you. They definitely did. So, what was that job like? Oh, it was a dream. I mean, first of all, hats off to my wife. She gave up her dream job at Colorado Christian to follow us up here to Fort Collins, Colorado and start that. But, yeah, I just loved it. Worked with all of the Northeastern Colorado junior high, high school, and college. Summer camps, sports, Estes Park. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that. So, a guy in his early 20s, newly married, it was a dream. Didn't make a lot of money, but don't need a lot of money. Nope. We were at twenty two thousand dollars a year We just joked about this the other day as a newlywed. That was a four call I was 22 five when I started in banking man. Okay, so bankers make we have like a parallel life We suffer like you love God and I'm on the fringes kind of thing. We could start a brewery church I love God just as much. I know not quite as much. You don't know that her I don't know. Who knows? He loves me more though. I, I, okay. Otherwise, my life wouldn't be so blessed just by doing so many dumb things. so you're protected is what you're saying, right? I got gardened angels, dude. Yeah. Don't mess with me more than I have. Even though you're bigger. uh, the bourbons start to hit just a little bit. Okay. Alright. Yeah. How you doing? I'll give you that. You haven't even, I already almost drank all mine. Well, I don't officially really know how to, how to do that as well as you do. I know. But that's what makes it fun when we have podcast guests here. When you're big, you can have a whole bourbon while you're on this podcast. That's fine. Um, where did we leave off on that squirrel chase? Oh, uh, uh, going into ministry as far as college, you know, my career trajectory. So FCA, six years. So Aaron Santini pretty well. I do. Yeah. He was a staff person, uh, after me. So Aaron Santini is a phenomenal guy and, and, uh, leading a church here in town. Doing a great job. Oh, no, I didn't know that. I've been going to for. 12 plus years. Him and Daniel Smith have been on. You know Daniel too? I've met Daniel. Aaron introduced me to Daniel. For sure. Yeah. Oh, and uh, Beck. Do you know Beck? Oh yeah. FCA. Been a long time. He's with our staff now too. Okay. Wow. Yeah. We pulled away from another church. We fixed it. Good for you. Sorry if you're the former church. But you did have some kind of whacked out views. I'm sorry. Oh man. I'm just kidding. Well, no. So yeah. This is the local experience, man. You gotta be ready for some non politically correct conversation here. Yeah. Understood. So you're, you're like leading these young guys to both be men and to be athletes and to be Christians, basically, is that kind of like a three legged stool of FCA? Really, my hot button is potential. And so putting FCA with focused on character as athletes with my hot button of let's push people towards their potential. It was a win win all the way around just because students, junior high, high school or college, they need that to be kept in front of them. Character and potential. It's a powerful one two punch. You gotta do hard things, you know. I'm telling you. You gotta do it right. Yep. Absolutely. I dig it. Okay. Yeah, so six years with, uh, Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Okay. Uh, and then I went into the crazy food industry. Yeah. I really did try to find other ministry jobs. Basically, I was gonna get transferred to Denver. Okay. And my wife and I were like, ah, we want to do the big city. And is she working? Is she having kids already or not yet? Not quite. Not quite. Yeah. She worked for a long time. at, uh, the Hilton, uh, here in Fort Collins, she worked with Alpine Manufacturing, the Girl Scouts, uh, for the early years of being, being up here, but decided we don't things this and that. Nothing career really. What was her degree? Study? She's uh, English, English, English. Yeah. Yeah. But she really wanted to be a stay at home mom and all of a sudden done. So yeah. Start making enough money so I can do that. I know exactly. Exactly. So I tried to find other ministry jobs because we didn't want to move to Denver. We're like, we don't want to do the city life. So I decided to stay here. Thought I'd just deliver bagels at night and look for jobs during the day. And that turned into a six year career at Gibbs Bagels and loved every minute of it. Right from there, yeah. That's a highlight for us. No, I mean, I, the company grew so much and how they, like just, I don't know, kind of set a different standard for how a local business can have kind of a multi location operation and influence and I don't know they had a lot of what was that there's a gal that maybe came after you that ran it? Well Rachel Yendra, her name was Rachel Bradley at the time. I know Zach better than I know Rachel but I know she's super well respected by a lot of people. Oh yeah. As well. Well Kurt, I have to tell you. And people say she turned it around after Scott left. That's right. Well she did and because I hired her. So it's pretty funny. I hired her as a high school student. Oh, is that right? And now she's obviously one of the best hires I ever made as a young manager at Gibbs bagel. So we stay in touch to this day. Like I was so jealous of Zach. Because he had like a wife that would make enough money so he could screw around and drive school buses around and take kids and do stuff and, and build awesome bikes and cool things. He's very talented. I love his creativity. Yeah. Anyway, I'm a fan. Well, good. And now they're merged with Spoons. So Spoons and Gibbs are owned by the same owner. And then Rachel. And who's the owner now? Mike Howland. Oh, is that right? So he's the one who bought Gibbs from Gibb. So Tom, Tom sold Spoons. That's correct. Tom. Tom. I don't remember his last name. Yeah, I don't remember either. So Mike bought it and so now Gibbs and Spoons are under the same ownership with Rachel at the helm. Running the whole thing. Pretty much. President. I hope she's got a slice of the equity at least. I am not sure. Let's ask her. She should. Oh man, she works so hard. Right, well she made it what it is in a So hard. And Spoons is a hard business too, but so good, like, I love their model. Yes. Yep. Yeah. And that's why they bought in. Okay, well that's interesting. Yeah, it's a small world. Maybe I'll have a future podcast. Maybe Rachel and Zach should be on it. Oh, they'd be great. They would be great. Zach has, uh A filter similar to mine, I suspect, when we start talking with Bourbon. Okay. I'm just, I'm just guessing. What would the filter be? No filter. Okay. Basically. So, so you kind of helped Gibbs in some ways kind of turn the corner to being a for real awesome business, and then you hired a high school that took it over when you went to I left from Gibbs and went to Yancey's Food Service. I don't know if you know Greg Yancey. Well, sure. Well, Greg and Drew have been on, and Drew is my next level 2 facilitator. Phenomenal family. Okay. So again, looked for ministry jobs when I was leaving Gibbs. Couldn't find any. And so Yancey's was very generous to say, Hey, do you want to come do some street sales for us? So I committed to that and then after that I landed at Timberline Church interesting Yeah, and how was what was that job at Timberline like and had you been searching try to get back into ministry proper or no? I pretty much wrote it off. I said, you know what? I think food industry is gonna have to be what you know The career path is and then the executive pastor at the time reached out to me. His name was Rob Coles Oh, yeah, and he said hey like that guy. Oh, man. He's so likable Yeah, he's doing a phenomenal job at Genesis project. Yep. Yep. Yep Yep. Um, I think I met him first with Sandy Brown from Colorado Christian School. I might be interlacing two different introductions. Anyway, um, I know Rob has been super involved with the Matthews House and hosting their offices and stuff and I met him there. But I think the very first time I met Rob was Sandy from CCU, not CCU, what's the, what's the high school here with the flexible kind of thing? Oh, CEC, Colorado Early College. Yes. Yes. Okay. Sandy, who has introduced me to Rob at the Peach Festival. Oh, okay. Forever ago. Anyway. Yeah. Sometimes, do you do this? Like, when you hear a name, do you flash back to the first moment that you met that person? Absolutely. Kind of? I think that's the importance of relationships. Yeah. Where did I meet you? Yeah. That's, so for me, that was Rob Coles, even though I've met him five other times at mostly Matthew's house related things, like I still flash to that moment at Hughes stadium when Sammy introduced me. Wow. Anyway. Yeah. So he's the one that met with me and said, Hey, we have opening at Timberline church. What do you think about getting back into ministry world? Oh, cause you knew from FCA kind of world or something like that. And I was attending the church at the time. So I knew him as one of the pastors. So there you go. Well, that's a good eye for talent exhibited. Right, Rob, I guess I would say. Too kind. Or, or maybe, maybe it was a disaster, I don't know, but you rose up the ranks, so we'll see. Yeah, well. So what's it look like to be So circuit me, by the way, because this is like 2014, 15, something like that. So I started at Timberline 2006 and then left in 2021, uh, as far as staff goes. Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep. And I kept my credentials when I left and went to work for Sky Corral. So it was 15 years at Timberline as far as paid staff. And then we started attending there in 94 as a family. Yeah. So it's been our, our home church for 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what. Like can we talk about the evolution of sure like it was I remember so I I've lived here starting in 99 Wasn't a Christian yet met my wife became a Christian eventually we went to the meeting place Church Mm hmm back in 99 with Dwight Bradshaw I know the name he and his wife were customers at the bank that I went to and eventually Persuaded me and along with my beautiful wife being a Christian already but then Like that was the circa and then I moved away for a few years later, but like Timberline was probably just Really good to be a big thing probably about that time, right? That's correct late 90s Yeah, so early 2000s really when they moved locations off of LeMay where Ridgeview is currently the school You know, they moved over to Timberline Road. It was that was explosive And it just blew up and I'm always like, I'm against the trends. So I never, I think I went once and I was like, nah, I'm not going to go to a big church like this. Understood. It is fine. Yeah. So, but tell me about that. Like being, you were there. Yeah. We were there as members of the church and then to move locations and to see this, uh, just explosive, you know, growth was very, especially being a small town, you know, church guy. Yeah. I'm like, okay, how am I going to handle this? And this is more people than I've been around in a long time. Uh, but it was amazing how they handled it. They just stayed focused on the community. They stay focused on the people. And they said, you know what, we're going to continue to love people where they are. Why do you think, like, was it the charisma of the pastor at the time? Was it the systems that developed? Like, was it multiple factors? Like what really contributed to that? Yeah. Definitely. I appreciate you asking. Definitely multiple factors, but Pastor Derry Northrup has been, you know, he's just getting ready to retire after 38, 39 years of senior leadership at the church. He's so excited about retirement. He's definitely no Joe Biden. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. So very charismatic. Yeah. Love the community. He's very people oriented, you know, so it was that, and then the team that he had around him just were committed to go. Let's figure out how we can be a mom and pop church, but in the mega church model Yeah, and somehow they found a unique blend of how to do that and people just like you know what I'm gonna keep coming back Yeah, yeah, so that's what it was and then when I came on staff in 2006 They were kind of after that initial explosive growth, and then I'm more of a how do we make things better? So it worked out well my role is to come alongside of them and say what can I do to help like? How do you measure better? As a pastor, like, is it because we make more money, you know, is it because we get more members? Is it because they enjoy it more? How do you know if they enjoy it more? Yeah. You want a little inside, you know, you know, everybody always goes to nickels and noses as success of a church, the money and the number of people that you have, but any pastor can do the anecdotal anecdotal story of. Well, I met with so and so and they turned their life around and then all of a sudden your whole church is not 20 of those or 100. And so that could be happening, you know, all the time. So you look at retention, you know, how many people are coming back? Is there a new growth that's coming into the church? And then how is the back door? How many people are leaving? So that's really where you look at, you know, the same as local, same time. It's really a business model. People had the hardest time. How do you get people to respond? Like how they like it? Well, it depends on who they're talking to. If they're talking to the senior pastor, they're probably not going to say, right. If they're talking to the operations guy like me, they're going to tell you what they like and what they don't like. So you definitely had to navigate that because you would hear two sides of the coin. I just had one of the most interesting, so this is probably. Behind the curtain a little bit, but we, we had a chapter that was struggling and, and we made a change in the facilitator position. It had been decreasing in membership. Within LOCO? Yeah, within LOCO. And I, I offered to be the interim facilitator whilst I found the right next facilitator. And like, I'm a good facilitator. BSF, Bible Study Fellowship taught me how to facilitate. Like way back in the day when I was first a Christian and stuff. I'm good at it. And I heard from them, like. We don't really want you here because you're like the loco think tank guy and it's hard for us to be authentic and vulnerable while Loco think that guy is here and I'm like dude. My business is one fourth the size of yours and I barely make any money Like you don't really have to be ashamed But like it's almost like I'm the senior pastor. That's true of loco think tank and I can't really huh Yeah, that's what I'd say. Pastor Derry, he would say, if I'm going to walk in a room, everybody's head's going to turn to me. Right. So why would I walk in the room when I can have you walk in the room and navigate that meeting just as well or better? Because people are going to respond differently. That's tremendous leadership. Um, and insight, really, for probably, for him, what was at the time. Learned a lot. He didn't I don't really know if that was right, it just felt right, you know, so, okay, well, that's, uh, so sorry to take that squirrel chase, but I think it's so worth it, honestly, like, and I'm not starting a religion, just for those that are listening. You're not going to apply for Gary's job? Neither did Pastor Gary, he's just continuing the religion, you know, his religion is Jesus is awesome and mine is pure advisory is useful. Uh, in different ways. Yeah, and he would say it's not religion, it's a relationship. If he were sitting here next to me, he's like I hate the word religion, that's why we talk about faith, family, politics here. Yeah, love it. And so, so I guess your time, um, at, Timberline from 2006 to 2015 was kind of a support and development role kind of as the church kind of took its next phase in because it blew up fast to be kind of the power church in Fort Collins and then, and then what? Yeah, yeah, multiple years of lots of different roles. So I started out in the care area and men's. Uh, so funerals, memorials, you know, weddings, you know, all of those things, uh, and then shifted into a supervisory role with other staff, uh, directors. And then the last. Uh, what would that be? 20, you know, 18 to 2021 would have been the senior executive role, which is more operational, you know, side kind of saying, Hey, I hear your vision. How do we get there? And then how do we mobilize the team to go do it? Huh? So it really was, I just really felt like I needed to help make things a little bit better. So you like probably had like one of the worst jobs during COVID nation. Not to flashback to that time, but it was challenging Not only challenging on the operational side, but we are such a relational church at the time Yeah How do you navigate all those relationships and everybody's opinions on what you should do what you shouldn't do and right online? Services and meeting in person. Well, I've got to jump to the punchline by any means, but you're like a country kid from the mountains, and you're like, big football player y guy, and I'm just gonna guess that your fear level over this bug wasn't quite as extreme as what you were supposed to expect, or whatever. No, we grew up not, nobody had a snow day, you didn't care about, you know, that, you just went about your business, all of those things, and Yeah, that was what I used to say, and it pissed people off a little bit, but I was like, you know, where I'm from, like, if there's a virus, or a Bug, you either get the bug or you don't get the bug, and then you either die or you don't die. And you just keep moving on and you do the things that need to happen. And people thought that was not very funny at all. No, no, I get it. I get it. Now, as a leader, I You couldn't say that kind of shit like I did. No, because as a leader, I wanted to follow the rules. And then, uh, with the county, we have a great relationship, you know, with Larimer County. I wanted to navigate that, you know, well. But I will never forget the visual, Kurt, of our 1, 400 seat auditorium being set aside in Two seaters and four seaters and six seaters and eight seaters and trying to guide families to sit six feet apart. I will never forget what our auditorium looked like and how that just changed what church felt. Oh, I'm sure it was gross. It was unbelievable. Just like crickets. 2, 000 people watching from home because you're like, did you disinvite people or was it enough fear that just didn't fill up the stands anyway? It was a combo. We did encourage people to watch online if they could just for the safety of the people that really wanted to be in person. So it was just a unique blend that we had to try to figure out. A lot of technology, uh, development and implementation at that time. Absolutely. A lot of hires to be able to navigate it. No offense, but you guys were kind of the fancy church with the super cool band all the time anyway. And so, like, part of the experience was being there with, like, felt like God was right there with you, you know? Right. Right. I mean, I'm sorry to, no, no, I appreciate it. It's funny cause my town, my town would have fit. It's an amazing production. Like it was beautiful. One of the times I've been there. Yeah. When you have a producer for a service and, you know, making sure everything flows well. 10, 000 members and 4, 000 attendees, your budget is a lot bigger than our little church, you know? And so to go from that to like here, here's, you know, no community, barely. Right, you got, what, 200 people attending with this proper spacing or something instead of 1, 300 or whatever, or 2, 000? Yep. Wow, you want to know what the unique thing was during that whole thing is everybody would automatically assume that we suffered, you know financially Yeah, the interesting thing was is you know, there were some blips of course, but people's generosity during that time because everybody got free money Everybody got tons of free money from the government. It was life was easy You didn't have to spend gas money anymore, right for a month right off your budget. You just stay home and Yeah, we were grateful for the generosity for sure. So, so I guess from a financial management and stuff, it wasn't that hard, but from an operational standpoint, it's like, uh, there's an old Bill Cosby line that I don't know the secret to success, but the secret to failure is to try to please everybody. Oh gosh. Yeah. Does that resonate with your experience there? Boy, it is so true. And Pastor Derry would always say, Hey, we're going to try something. If it doesn't work, we'll go back to what wasn't working before. I love it. I love it. So, uh, then kind of like, because if I remember right, May 2021 was like, Oh, we're going to be free. And then. Oh shit, all those vaccines didn't really work and we clamped back down in September of 21 or something like that. Is that true? I don't remember the specific dates. I think it did. But when I started at Sky Corral in May of 21, we were still navigating some of that. Yeah, yeah, and then it kind of freed up for that summer and then locked back down again. Right. No, seriously, we had to say to people, if you're not of the same family, you might have to sleep in a mask. And we looked at each other and went, how, how can we enforce that? Right. Well, I had, I had members leave Loco Think Tank because we didn't have a policy on how we were going to require it. And I was like, well, it seems like I should have just said it, I guess, like restaurant rules anyway, I don't know. Glad we're on the other side. Um, I feel like it's a good time for a break. Okay. All right. Well, so we got Faith family politics is our mandatory segments. Okay. Do you have a preference on where you would start? Probably family. Yeah, that's an easy one for me. Talk to me about your family. So, uh, this, this little gal that followed you up into this crappy job in Fort Collins, was whom again? Uh, Christina Seiler was her maiden name. Yes. And, uh, met our freshman year at Colorado Christian. Uh, just, uh, met our freshman year and it was like, man, she's from Boulder. Okay. Uh, born in Iowa. Uh, but she was a Boulder high school girl. So she was an outcast in her community as well. Yeah. Christian. Oh, everybody always talked about, wait, you're a Christian and you're from Boulder. So she had to answer that question. I don't know how many times, but yeah, freshman year we met and just dated all the way through. It was a great time to get to know her and. Uh, me being a small town boy, it was like, wow, you know, somebody from a big city, right? Somebody can see me. Why would she say that she saw in you? Other than the fact that you were like on the basketball team or whatever. Yeah, and she could have cared less about that. That was the interesting part. I just, you know, being a gentleman, you know, being kind, you know, all of that. Yeah. So it had to be something because it wasn't my clothes. Coming from a small town, man. The fashion was flannel or flannel. You know, it absolutely. You're calling it right there. Yeah. We always talk about that, but yeah, so met our freshman year and then dated all the way through. And you, what you liked about her was that she seemed to like you. No, well, no, I mean, she was a bombshell. I was just like very drawn to her, but it was really her personality. She was very, just. Outgoing and just so interactive and that's just somebody I hadn't been around in a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And so that just, you know, jumped right out at me. Well, and that kind of personality doesn't really blossom as much in small town environments. No. Like they're usually shushed down. Correct. Uh, by the peer pressure of not being like a, a butterfly or whatever, right? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it was definitely different than I'd ever experienced before. Yeah. I didn't date a lot. I'm in high school, so this was gonna be my first, you know, major, you know, dating experience. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and so yeah, learned a lot through that, and we just kept getting to know each other. Okay. And she made me laugh, and she was so creative and adventurous, and I just needed that. We felt like we were a really good blend for each other. I dig it. How, like, did you get engaged soon, or did you go all the way through college? All the way through college. It was like, kind of not, it wasn't really culturally normal to We know we talked about it. We talked about getting engaged in college and we said why would we do that? We don't only get to do this once. So let's finish college. Plus her dad was still paying for college. Yeah, right, right It wasn't certain if he And great family. So yeah, it's the funny We got engaged the fall of our senior year and then got married after we graduated college. Okay, and um Like what was her family up to like being a boulder and stuff like where did she did she have siblings as well? And she did. Yeah, she did So older brother older sister and then herself the unique part of that story is all three of them were adopted Mmm, my mother in law current mother in law that I know had cancer as an early teenager So she couldn't have kids. Oh, so her her parents adopted. Okay, all three of them. So that's a pretty nice story domestic adoptions Yep all domestic Yep. Yep. Des Moines, Iowa. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And that's where she came to CCU from was Iowa. Nope. So they kind of born and raised. Yeah. And then, but Boulder was Boulder. Yeah. Boulder high school and all of that. Yeah. I came to Colorado Christian. Gotcha. Yeah. Um, And you have children? We do. So, two daughters. Uh, Reagan, who's 26. Okay. Uh, Whitney, who's 24. They live in Loveland. Okay. Uh, they're roomies. Alright. Which is great. It's fun having them close. Yeah, yeah. And our, uh, son is Tennyson. He's 20. Uh, junior at Grand Canyon University in Phoenix. So, you've got like a fresh, uh, fresh empty nest, kinda. We are figuring that out. Yeah, Kurt, it is definitely different. We're enjoying it. Lots of flexibility. Yeah, yeah. We soak up the time when everybody's home, but then we definitely enjoy the time when everybody's out. And no grandkids or any, like, hints of that with girls or roommates, so. Right. Yep. Yep. One of them's dating, the other one is not at the current time. Okay. Yeah, so nothing on the horizon right now. Would you like to do the, uh, One word description challenge for your children. Oh man, go for it. You mean give one word to each one of them? For each one of them. Yeah. You've given them names and ages, but if you want to come back with a word for them, yeah, absolutely. Reagan, our oldest positive would be the one. Was she named after Ronald Reagan? No, she was not. You know, my wife being an English major, uh, you know, Reagan, all the stuff in literature and things. So that's where that, that name came from. I was thinking maybe it was about that time though, wasn't it? No, wait, no. It's way after Reagan. Holy crap. We're so old. We might want to edit that out. 40 years ago was when Reagan was around. Yeah. And then, uh, yeah, Whitney would be caring. Very, very much caring. Yeah. And then Tennyson would be a entrepreneur. Tennyson is also, uh, English kind of a name, right? It is. Yeah. That is spelled with a Y. His is spelled with an I. Um, but if you're okay with it, I mean, his name comes from a, uh, university of Colorado football player named Tennyson was a tight end at the university of Colorado. And, uh, we met him through fellowship of Christian athletes. We're like, if we ever have a boy. We really like that name. And so two girls later, we had our boy and we said, we like that name. Let's go with that. That's good. Yeah, exactly. Um, that's gotta be an interesting time right now because like right now is where. The rubber hits the road a little bit in adulting, right, for them. And you can't put a firm hand on there, but you can always be an encourager. And like, it's just, you know, the next ten years you're gonna see how, how things play out. Who they, who the girls choose to be their husbands if they do. Correct. Um, and all that. Yeah. It's very unique. So to say, Hey, I'm going to be available, but then watch them. Adult is very, very unique. Yeah. Yeah. And you can come stay up at the ranch whenever you want. Right. Right. Yeah. The oldest is a fourth grade teacher at Rice elementary. So she's in the education world right now. And then, uh, Whitney is at Good Samaritan in Loveland. Oh, yeah. Activities director and keeping people moving and all the activities there. What's her last name? Whitney Kissel. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I actually. I went and spoke to a group of guys down at the Good Samaritans down in Windsor about like entrepreneurship or something. I'm guessing the previous person that had the program director job was Maybe. That's Windsor. She's in Loveland. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Two different locations. So anyway, one of her peers, I guess. Yeah, somebody was like, Hey, would you like to come and talk to like 25 old dudes about Loco Think Tank? And I was like Sure, I guess. You know, why not? Yeah. We can talk about the podcast, too. And I bet they enjoyed that. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. One of them was supposed to actually refer me to his son, who's a CEO of a local business, but I guess he slacked on it, so. Oh, man. Sir, if you're listening, you didn't follow up. Like I asked you to, uh, but I would say the greatest joy of watching them do adulting, you know, Kurt has just been seeing them make their decisions, you know, on their own and to watch them do that has been pretty fun so far. So good. So far. So good. Very proud of them. Um, we're, I'm going to say Scotch Irish. You talking about our name? Yeah. Your family, man. See, you're going to hit a spot where I don't know much about it. Well, Kissel sounds like more of a British name. But usually the British names are because the British like raped some Scotch Irish girl or whatever. Because that's how they got the big ones. Because the Brits didn't, weren't big. It was the Scotches and the Irish that were like the big people, plus the Danes and the So, but Kissel seems like a English name to me. Yeah. I don't know. No, no, mom. I know you're listening to this probably five times, so you can tell me where that's from. Okay. We just weren't big into that. So I'm not necessarily sure. I know the Kissel car. I get comments all the time about the, the brand Kissel car. So I don't know what that is. Yeah. You'll have to, where's it from? Don't even know, I shouldn't have brought it up, get this out of here. We're not getting that out of there. We're keeping this. Um, I just, I'm just surprised at the lack of curiosity, I guess a little bit. Yeah. I don't know where that came from. I just have never been like, you know, what kind of name do we have and where are we from? I've just, I don't know. And it's kind of, cause I've actually had people look at me like, Why are you asking me this? You know, especially if it's like an Asian name or something. I'm like, well, because I want to know if this is a Filipino name? Is it a Korean name? Is it a Japanese name? I don't know. I'm curious. Um, but as like an old white guy, people are like, well, why do you want to know? Uh, especially in Mega Days, right? Um, so But anyway, that would be my suspicion, uh, especially with a Catholic background and just being big. Like the Brits weren't very big. Like they're like little King Charles sized people and stuff like that. The aristocracy didn't need to be tough. Interesting. I don't know. Yeah, well my dad was 6'3 and my mom, Kurt, was 5'4. So there you go. Really tall. My wife is four 11 and I'm six. But I was, that's part of my listeners will be like annoyed, but I was five foot one at the end of my sophomore year. And then I grew six inches a year by junior senior as high school. Like, got to college at like, six, two, one thirty. With a mullet. Yeah. With your original parts? Yeah, that's the difference, that's the difference between me and you is like, you were like a stud muffin and I was like a dorkopotamus kinda. Oh man. Eh, you know. Whatever, at least I'm better looking than you now. Agree. So, uh, I think we kind of fished out the family tree. You just don't really know that much. I really don't have grandkids yet. So you got dogs or chickens or anything that are really close to you? Yeah. We are a big time dog family currently have a woodle, which, you know, everybody gets tired of hearing. A Wheatland? No, Wheaton and a poodle. Wheaton Terrier and a poodle. Yeah, that's probably pretty solid. I've got a schnauzer mix. Okay. Uh, schnocker, schnauzer, cocker. Okay. Yeah. Um, so that's probably 30, 40 pounds. Yeah. 38. Okay. Right in there somewhere. Yep. Yep. We had a sheep dog, was our first one, so just a big hairy, you know, dog. We loved that. But then we got into the Wheaton mix. Yeah, it's nice having non shedding dogs. Oh, 100%. Yeah, Jill wants like a, a Bernese Mountain Dog next. I'm like Maybe a Bernadoodle, but definitely not a Bernese, like, no way. May as well go to the St. Bernard route and have the jowls and the drips right on top of the hair. I don't want none of that. I don't want no slobber. I don't want no hair, really. So, um, faith or politics next? Oh, yeah, faith, for sure. So, talk to me about, what was the, the 65 year old lady that started taking you to church and, I guess part of my question is, why did your parents, why were they okay with it? Like, that's a really interesting scenario. Everybody asked me that and it didn't happen right away. So definitely, uh, she started coming in to do the shopping. She got to know us. My mom was the cashier and I was the bagger, you know, putting the groceries in the bag. Just got to know sweet old Edie. And, uh, she started just asking. Yeah. And they said no. They originally said no for quite a few weeks. And then I don't know if it was the next summer or if it was just later that summer. Yeah. They said. Come get him, bring him home, do your shopping, and then you can head out and we'll see you next week. And that just worked out. Huh. So that's where, yeah, that began. And did you, like, you fell into it pretty strong. Sounds like you were like one of the big cheerleaders around and whatever, like when the question was whatever you were the first one to say, Jesus, I was more of an Edie fan than I was a Jesus fan. I think, uh, just, I wanted to hang out with Edie. Uh huh. She was just one of those loving ladies that just had great stories. She modeled it for you, kind of. Yeah, and then she'd invite me up to her cabin, and I would tube down the river, and she'd make me sandwiches, and it was just like a kid's dream. Just the two of you? Like you would hang out with this old lady? Oh yeah, totally. Nothing weird though. No! Just kidding, sorry. No, family cabin, it's all, I know, at this day and age, you wouldn't know. Right, you'd be like, that lady's crazy. Back then, in a small town, it's just, that's what you do. What a lovely thing. Everybody knows everybody. She was probably so lonely. For sure. In some ways. She didn't have like a family? She did. They would come up occasionally in the summer. Okay. So they're from Texas. And so it just depends on when her time, she stayed all summer time. Yeah. People would come and go. So her family would come and go, but I was like thinking added, you know, grandson, if you will. Right. Oh, what a beautiful like relationship. I think that's what. It's so interesting, like, in this world that's evolved since then, like, everything is cool. You can be whoever you wanna be, you can call yourself whatever gender you want, you can be in a relationship with whoever you want, but stuff like that isn't cool. It's weird. You know, like, but it's beautiful. Right. Like, to hear about it here 20 years later, or even to think about it happening today. You know, what a beautiful thing for an elderly person to have, probably a brighter than average six or eight year old kid. To just hang out with and talk with as they expand their knowledge of the world and you know She fed you and you fed her with probably so much. Yeah, so and I think part of it was I mean as a family business Most people that have family businesses No, it's a lot of work. So I think part of it for her was Does he ever get outside of the store at all? Oh, wow. You know, because if mom and dad are always in the store every time it opens and closes, what's he doing during the day? So I think part of it was, hey, can I help, you know, Scott's parents out by just getting them outside and letting them hang out and be a kid. How was your, like Family income level, like, could you go out to restaurants? Could you ever travel or do things? We would do one vacation a year, typically. Okay. Uh, not a whole lot of out to eat. I would say our family, uh, really focused on, you know, the things to enjoy experiences. Yeah, yeah. Snowmobiles. Fishing. Fishing. Getting a raft. You know, making sure that whatever we did as a family, we could do it on the weekend and whenever the store was closed. Yeah, yeah. And whenever there was that opportunity, then it was like, took it, get it. Yep. You took it. Interesting. Yeah. Um, well, and the interesting thing about a retail store like that is like every dollar that you pull out of that business is like a dollar less than you can have an inventory. Which is like a dollar less than the store can make down the road kind of thing, right? Like you're probably familiar with that notion. Different than a church. You just fill the pews a little more and you get more money kind of thing. Yeah, my brother was the butcher. Sister was the bookkeeper, you know, so you just kind of enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah, and I was the sneaky little kid that would accidentally cut the wrappers of a Snickers when I'm opening the box Oh, I guess I'm gonna have to eat this. I'm gonna have to eat this one. Exactly. That's the beauty of it Any times of doubt in your faith journey or times of real challenge? For you, for sure. I think, you know, one of the times was when I left the fellowship of Christian athletes and then could not find another ministry job, I thought, you know, what, what's my purpose. You know, if I can't go back into full time ministry, you know, what, where do I land in this whole, you know, ordeal. And then as I got into the food industry, you know, a couple of years into there, I was really struggling. Uh, my wife would look at me and say, you know what? You are in ministry. You're around people that don't know anything about church every single day, more than you ever have in all your other jobs. So kind of like suck it up, uh, figure out how to interact with people and not start, you know, don't keep complaining about not being in full time ministry. And it was at that moment where I said, okay, I'm all in, it gives bagels and I'm going to do the job that I know I can do, and I'm going to have a good time hanging out with these people that don't know much about church at all. And then did. That advanced kind of the cause at Gibbs we didn't kind of flash forward and past that chapter But it seems like there was probably a lot more there than I gave credit to yeah Gibb at the time You know Gibb who owned it. He would call me, you know pastor on the call. Okay. Yeah, he's like, you know I just I'm kind of the traveling pastor for Gibbs bagels. And so I've officiated some weddings. I was the amount of faith Uh, also, minimally, and then as we got to know each other, he really, uh, grew in his faith and was just peppering me with questions all the time. His favorite was, Hey, Scott, you got time? Let's go for a walk. Let me go for a walk around the bagel store and typically a spiritual question would pop up. So some of my favorite memories there, for sure, for sure. Um, politics. Oh boy. You are well versed, it sounds like, in politics. Uh, pretty much not versed at all. Uh, I think it's partly from my upbringing. Never talked about politics. Uh, it was never a discussion as far as, you know, voting or anything like that or Like it was kind of one of those kind of church kind of things. You just kind of live with the world that evolves. It's God's will. And so don't you question it? Yeah. I just, I never remember one instance of my parents saying, Hey, let's talk about leadership in our country. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So like, We're in a super weird time right now. Like, for listeners, we're February 4th. Like, Doge has been, like, dumping the USAID files on the countertop, saying, here's all the dumb shit we're paying for, and there's a bunch of protests, and we're dis immigrating. Quite a few thousands of people, some of which have criminal records, some of which don't. Like, are you familiar with any of those kind of hot button topics right now? A little bit, yes. Just enough? Yeah, just enough. And like We watch the 10 o'clock news for 30 minutes and that's literally my Interaction with it. Okay. Okay. Except for a few notifications on my phone. Well, don't watch this. Don't watch the news. Just kidding. Well, I mean, to be frank, it's been a more interesting season in politics. I've been kind of, I'm in the libertarian guy that just like, like I voted for Kanye last election and Gary Johnson the time before that, but I did vote for Trump in 2024 and now he's in and like. Shit's going down like, I don't know if you, yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of stuff happening, you know, massive anti immigration stuff and like Alma's, uh, from a local Hispanic church. And so she literally knows a few dozen people that, I feel like they are at risk of being deported, even though they haven't broken any laws here necessarily, but they haven't gotten their shit together with the immigration either. And so I'm brushed up against with that. And just, there's tons of federal funding to arts organizations and nonprofits. And like the city of Fort Collins has had its staff for their economic development department grow from five to twelve in the last few years, mostly due to federal funding of Unknown utility. And so there's like all this cuts potentially coming because Elon Musk and his AI powered investigative machine is like looking at how the government's been spending our 20 years. And it looks like it's terrible. Anyway, so I brought you up to speed. Okay. There you go. There you go. Thanks for the political upgrade. So I guess like in your role, like, I guess let's go here. Like is Skycrow Ranch a faith organization? It is, yes. Yeah, we, our core values are operate on Christian principles, love your neighbor, and build genuine relationships. Okay. Okay. So with the first one being the Christian principles. Yep. So, like from a Not exclusive. I mean, people would say, well, faith friendly because anybody can book Sky Corral. Uh, doesn't have to be faith based. Could I have my lesbian wedding there? No, we don't do weddings. Yeah, we have a wedding venue right down the road. Yeah, they're like, yeah, they're a mile away. So let me think about, uh, politics that I can I know, you're wondering, where can you go with this guy? Yeah, a little bit. Like, where can I go to get some interesting stuff? I guess, let's talk about, um, like, the climate of the world. Mm. Um, because, simplistically put, we had, like, a president that was, Barely there the last few years, um, I'm not going to get into January 6th, whether that was good or bad or whatever, you know, that's, it's settled history at this point kind of thing, um, but like an interesting thing is that if it wouldn't have been for the 2020 election, Trump wouldn't have nearly as much horsepower now, like, and now he's got kind of a, he's got the popular vote, he's got the The House, the Senate momentum, and it's really challenging kind of the, the deep state of America as it is. Is that good or is he dangerous? Or both? Hmm. Yeah. And see, I don't know how you want to go about this. Cause I, I don't know. Cause the, the two things that I always believe in when, if you're going to talk about politics with me is, uh, one is I don't envy anybody in politics regardless of party because they have an incredibly miserable job. Uh, two, when it comes to scripture, you know, we're encouraged to, you know, support and pray for anybody in authority. So regardless of who I. Vote for whoever wins, whoever loses as a believer, I am still called to pray for those in authority. I may not agree with them, uh, but I do have to pray for them and support them. It doesn't mean I have to agree. So I will say that I can't engage in that part of it because, you know, we're called to love people. You know, but if you don't know what they're doing, how do you know how to pray for them properly? I know. It says in Romans 8, 26, that, you know, the Holy Spirit is covering our gaps, covers us in our weaknesses. So when we pray, I may not know how to pray for politician a, but I can say, will you be with that person? That's in authority. Cause I have no idea what's on their plate. I have no idea who's around them. I have no idea who's chiming in their ear to go about this a certain direction, but. Well, you give them wisdom in whatever decisions, you know, they're making. All right. So I can, you know, go down that road on those two things for sure. That's fair. So regardless of political party, man, we, we got to love people. We got to love them well, and we have to pray for whoever's in authority. So can we take it more to the politics of our times instead of Pacific people? Sure. Like. Um, well, let me ask you this first is give me a definition of politics since I'm not highly versed in it. I don't engage with it all the time. Tell me where you're coming from. Well, so like one, uh, this is a, uh, uh, interesting caveat or a angle to come from, but like in a, in a. leadership Fort Collins conversation I was in. I put forward the theory to the, the, they had the, the, the head of the school counselors for Poodle School District there. And the, the girls transing themselves and saying they're boys kind of thing was at peak fervor at that point in time. And I, and I shared with them that I, I feel like the, the thing I'm concerned about, and one of the factors of this could be that climate change has convinced girls that creating a baby is like a bad thing. Like, this baby that you create is just gonna, like, make more carbon and, like, make the world a worse place, kind of, in a way. Where, being a woman has always kind of sucked because you gotta go through your monthly cycle. You gotta, you're weaker than men, you're subject to their potential physical domination and things like that. And it's all worth it because you can make babies. But if babies aren't valued, then that sucks. And so that's politics to me. Gotcha. That climate change narrative about, are babies valuable or are they a scourge on the earth? Right? And, and, and how does those deeper cultural issues influence actual trends in politics and government and how we go about things? You know, like, I've met people that are very legitimately confused about their, their gender. And like with this Trump administration, they kind of got rid of the, the T and the Q kind of thing. Like, we're not doing that anymore. We're no he, her, she, him, stuff like that. Like, that's harsh. And for people that are legitimately confused or struggling, that's very harsh, right? But it's also kind of true, right? For the most part, most of us are a boy or we're a girl. And we should decide and be the best boy or girl. We should be. So to me, those are political issues, even though they're actually science issues in a way, but it's cultural, political, right. Because of where the decisions are being made. Right. Yeah. So I don't view it as political. I view it really more relational. Yeah. And scientific for sure. Right. Well, and cultural as well. Like, how has that been navigating that both as a. Pastor and as a person raising daughters. Yup. Yeah, definitely interesting conversations in church leadership, you know, these days, regardless of what church, you know, people are attending to have those discussions, uh, you know, as far as child dedications, weddings, you know, things like that, uh, we always go back to what the Bible says. And, you know, biblically, it talks about, you know, uh, you know, marriage was between a man and a woman. I mean, God only created, you know, two, you know, genders. Um, is there confusion in the world? Of course, you know, there is confusion. There's confusion, not just gender, uh, confusion about, you know, everything else. Purpose, uh, family, you know, relational career, all those things. So it's not all just, you know, gender. I think where our world is politically, as far as what you're talking about is there's just confusion overall. And there's just a lot of noise, a lot of noise happening in our world. Um, and a lot of. Selfish, um, what's the word, uh, entitled, uh, things in our culture right now is a very entitled culture for the most part. I mean, I'm not saying it's a hundred percent all the way, but you know, we don't, I don't go through a day without running into somebody that is, you know, entitled, right? It's pretty much, you know, a more common occurrence, you know, these days. So I'm trying to work through that myself as an individual and as a leader of a nonprofit and as a family entitlement, you know, how do you shift that to some other, like, Humility or gratitude or those kinds of things because that's more better, right? Yeah, so to interact with somebody that might come across as entitled, you can't tell them you're entitled, right? It's not gonna go well, you know, or to talk to my kids, you know, they're adults now, but to say hey Let's talk through, you know, this whole ego Entitlement, you know, everything is mine, you know kind of a thing we need to talk about that We don't want to be that as a family So I think, um, this is slightly off topic, but I think the first time you really ate humble pie Ultimately was kind of after that FCA job. You'd kind of been a star. You got the the gorgeous wife Early on you came from this small town and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I guess I got to work at the freakin Bagel shop. Yep. Was that good for you? Oh, yeah at the time. I would have not said I would have said what is wrong with places not hiring me Now. Absolutely. It was good for me. I mean, Kurt, the moment I have in my mind vividly is getting my fifth rejection letter from the same organization when I've applied for multiple jobs. And I just threw it. I wadded it up, threw it on the floor, and said, what the hell, Lord, what's wrong with them? What is wrong? And it was like instantly in that moment, it was like entitlement kind of broke a little bit. It was, I felt this. Scott Kissel can't always get what Scott Kissel wants. Mm-hmm Cause you're ultimately not in charge. And I just went for a drive. I being honest, I bawled my eyes out and went, you're right. I thought I was the cat's meow and I guess I'm not, where should I work and where do I get my own and I'll go back to doing bagels tomorrow. I love it. I love it. Thanks for sharing that. It's an important moment. I think I've barely met anybody that didn't have a moment like that along the way that actually achieved great things. And I do reflect back on it quite a bit. And I hope you keep doing great things. Are you ready for the ping pong ball? Oh man, yeah. I told somebody earlier today, I'm a little nervous about this when you say, I think you said interesting and awkward, or did you say intimate? No, we're not going to get intimate. I can try to make you blush or cry, but I'm not going to get into your bedroom. All right, great. Um, grab three balls. Okay. And we have, uh, some special prizes. Actually. Scott brought, uh, some, uh, breezed through car wash cards and he brought some ferris wheel ride cards at shields and we'll we'll do some social media posting so follow us on both the loco experience on instagram and on linkedin if you want to get a chance at some of these prizes um so 22 22 is the first one 22 Let's see if I can read this. Oh, I like this one. I actually made this one up. Me and Ava worked on this project. If you could live anywhere for three months a year, where would it be? Oh, no brainer. Switzerland. It has been on my list to live in the Alps for And three months would be perfect. Because I would pick, you know, the height of the best skiing time and have a ski in and ski out residence of some kind in the Swiss Alps. Just gotta get the Skycrawl Ranch, uh Yeah. Built up a little bit. So you can afford that lifestyle. Just a little bit. Yeah. Or meet somebody that can. Yeah. You're not talking like a friend, right? Like you're already married. Cause right. Okay. Good. Just making sure you're not fishing for some rich Swiss girl that can bring you up there. Not at all. A really good friend. I would actually try to talk my wife into that. Be like, Hey, but it's just three months. I can just go up there. I'll be fine. No, I'm not gonna Just kidding 20 20. What's your go to excuse when you want to get out of plans? Oh Man, that is a good like if one of your Church members wants to be with you. You just really don't want to, man. I was taught at such a young, early age group to literally say the generic comment of, and see, I'm outing myself. So now when I use this, somebody is going to say, that's just your excuse. That's awesome. I can't, I have a previous engagement. Oh. And that previous engagement or commitment could be, I'm watching a football game at home, I'm going to hang out with my wife, I, you know, engagement is a broad term, but that is my go to is, I'm sorry, I can't have a previous engagement. A previous commitment, I say actually. Correct. Yeah, I do that one too. Good one. Okay. Number six. If you could only eat Oh, we just had this last podcast. Did you? Do I need to take another one? No, it's okay. We'll start the balls better next time. It's a good question. Okay. If you could only eat one color of food for the rest of your life, what color food would you choose? My favorite color is red. It also goes with marinara sauce and pizza. Right. Steak. Anything red. Steak. Absolutely. Tomatoes. Ribeye. You name it. Cherries. Strawberries. raspberries. Yep. Yeah, I don't Ava. I don't think anybody else is going to choose any other colors of red. Is that what it's been? What was last week? There's only two so far, but yeah, they both read, read, read. I can't think of any other, like what I'm going to choose. Brown, I guess maybe brown food. Good. Yeah, I guess, but I don't know. Green happened. People got to say green for veggies. I know, but If there was green meat, if there existed any kind of good green meat, yes, but there is no green meat. So that means I can never eat meat again. So fuck it. I'm choosing red, man. No, but growing up in a grocery store, I, we always got all the expired stuff at our house. All right. So I definitely had some green meat, Kurt. Right. Just trim that shit off. It's good. Can't go to waste. Take it home. Dude, as a food trucker, cause I was doing that for a while. Right. And I would have like. A gallon of extra, like, pulled pork. Like, I had a one week expiration, but do you think I could eat that more than one time or two times? You can only do so much with it. Rarely. Or cilantro lime coleslaw? That stuff is amazing. I could eat a ton of that stuff, but not four times a week. Heard. So, that was probably, that was interesting. How much of your, how much of your diet do you think was near expiration food when you were growing up? Easily 80%. Easily. Love it. No, the joke in our house is, what's expired in the fridge, and then, or, Hey, Scott, will you smell this? Is it expired? I'm like, well, the date doesn't matter. Let me smell it. Totally. I'm in the same ballpark with, why would I throw it away? If it's like we have an exchange student now, my wife and I, we don't have kids. Yeah. We don't, uh, we haven't had any kids, but we have, Lenny's our 12th exchange student from work. Uh, he's from Finland. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's been pretty. Pretty fun, he's, and I'm ready for him to leave in a few months, it's cool, you know, I don't want any real kids. Well, if I had one, it would be cool. Like, Jill, if you hear this, like, if you get pregnant, we're having it. Even though you're 44, we're gonna try. Uh, but anyway, I digress. Um, but I'm like, Dude, when you see things that are getting kind of tired, like, eat that. And, but nobody else does, except for me, because, like, there's a Clif Bar right there. And some strawberries, and some blueberries, and all the other things that aren't in danger of expiring. But I'm like, well, if I don't eat it The chickens are going to get it, you know, and I'd rather, we really are similar in a lot of ways. So, oh, which question is winner? Um, which of those questions did you like? We're not going to choose the color red. No, no, definitely has got to be, if I could go somewhere for three months, that's got to be the winning one. Yeah, Switzerland. For sure. Okay, so if you're listening to this podcast, that's going to be the answer, but you're going to have to go to Instagram or LinkedIn or some place to find the actual post where we share, like, DM us, and if you're the first one you get the answer. Um, and then the local experience. That's our final segment. Okay, your craziest experience of your lifetime that you're willing to share with our listeners Man, well the very first thing that comes to my mind is trying to get bagels sold To the airline industry. Oh, so being a small mom I don't know Gibbs ever did that that was kind of during the boom of when Gibbs really took off Okay, the wholesale business just shot through the roof. So I'm gonna give a little sales secret and as you follow other Bagel trucks around to see where they deliver Okay. And so as a salesperson for Gibbs, I did that and I found that they went down to the airlines. And so we're like, well, we gotta get our bagels on the airline. Right. Took a long time to finally get an appointment, would drop off samples all the time. Say, Hey, oh wow. Drop'em off. Drop'em off. Couldn't get anybody to call me back. All your experience with Yancy was probably, or was that pre, it was pre Gibbs was pre Yancy. Oh shit. Yeah. So totally was different. Persistent. And that probably got you the job at Yancey's in a way. No, it really was. And Gibb said he would switch the business to Yancey's if they hired me. So it was a no brainer. I like it. But anyway, we finally got a meeting. Gibb went with me and they said, we don't need bagels, but we could use some breadsticks. Do you guys do breadsticks? And before I got no out of my mouth, Gibb said, yes, we do breadsticks. And they get the best breadsticks. Yeah. How many flavors do you need? And when can we bring samples down? And they said, well, we need 4, 000 a day and we're looking for rosemary. He goes, great. We'll bring some samples down next week. Oh, we go out into the elevator in the lobby. The door closes. He looks over me and he goes, how the hell are we going to do this? I'm like, dude, I don't know. You sold her breadsticks. And so we went back to the bagel shop and probably can't tell you the rest of the story, but no, we basically cut a bagel in half. Stretched it out, same bagel dough, same recipe, bought a different oven, steamed them, and uh, took them down, and they bought them. So we did breadsticks, cookies, uh, marinara sauce for the breadsticks, the last product the airline took was the bagel. What was the, like the bend to the revenue line from that? My gosh, I mean it was, it was in the range of, you know, 20, 000 a month. You know, influx instantly, which was 20 percent or something, but a big chunk way too long ago, but no, no employees, just dough and delivery. Yeah. Trying to figure out how to get those things down there. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. So anyway, we joke about that one all the time. You still friends with Gibber? Oh yeah. Yeah. We text, you know, probably at least every other month or so. And he's in Florida. I dig it. Um. Love you Gibb. Last things you want to share with the people that are wondering what more to know about Scott? Man, I would. So if you're going to go to, like check out Scott, Sky Corral Ranch up at the website. Oh yeah. It's, I don't know, skycorralranch. org. Yeah, skycorral. org. Okay, skycorral. org. Yep. And we believe something happens in the pause. Get up there. Oh yeah. Slow your pace down. Did I tell you that? Just something happens in the pause. Did, did your gal that called me about featuring us in the newsletter talk to you about my conversation with her? No, I just saw it in the, in the actual newsletter. Oh dude, it was so much more interesting than that. Really? Because I totally didn't get back to her for like quite a while. Okay. And it was getting close to the time and I was like, oh shoot. So she called me and I was I was in St. Lucia, I think, maybe, or I was on vacation, um, or maybe not, maybe I came back, but anyway, that was part of why I missed it. But she asked me for like a powerful moment that was significant during our next little summit up there, and, uh, I said, well, you know, probably the coolest moment is when Max Anderson was talking about, Like he had a set of like four or five different like ways to really scale an acquired business because he's kind of built a group of Kind of pre middle market size companies that he's put together and he was our speaker up there and during the first I don't know, maybe 15 minutes in, he was like, If anyone wants to take a quick break and look at the mama bear and two baby bears, walking across the, the, the valley over there, Um, now would be a good time. And so we literally paused. And that's the language I used. So like, the speaker paused the presentation, and said, everybody go over to the window and look, and here's this mama and two babies. And then came back, and then your, your gal who called me was like, Well, that's so crazy because the power of the pause is actually the theme of our newsletter here. I was like, well, I'm Kurt Baer, so you can quote me on that. I know the power of pause. Absolutely. Yeah. And if we could apply that in our lives outside of Sky Corral, if we can just have some more pause moments as a society, as individuals and leaders, we'll, we'll do a lot better. I dig it. It's a, it's an important thing. And, uh, I'm glad you get the pauses and provide the pauses that you need. Well, thank you. Cheers. Thanks, Scott. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. All right. Bye for now. Bye.
