EXPERIENCE 199 | Healthy Relationships, Thriving Workplaces, and Lens Neurofeedback with Becky Lauridson, Founder of IOME

Becky Lauridson is the Founder of IOME Self Care, a LoCo Think Tank member, a fan of Lens Neurofeedback, a wife, mother, and elk hunting guide on her family ranch near Craig, Colorado.

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Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Transcript

1:31

Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. My returning guest today is Becky Lauridsen. Yes. Yep. Thank you. And she's the founder and owner of IOMEE. Uh, returning, uh, it was my guest in episode nine, January of 2021, we released that almost three years. That's yeah. Yeah. Um, so I guess let's just refresh guests with, uh, you're, you're a smarty pants, a brain shrinker. I am. Not a psychiatrist, but a counselor person, a counselor. Yep. So licensed professional counselor. Um, I've gotten a handful of other little, uh, certifications and things along the way, but it's master's level counseling. So LPC, I'm a trained EMDR therapist, which is a trauma based therapy. And then certified Enneagram coach, which is a super fun tool for me to use, um, especially in the workplace. And then I just most recently became certified as a lens neurofeedback provider. I have kind of nerded out on the neurology, if you will. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um. And more importantly, you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yes. Um, can I ask how many, so your business is IOMI, it's a counseling organization and membership organization and employment services. How many counselors are part of your team? Yeah. We're a team of 10 now. Okay. And in two locations? Yes, Fort Collins and Windsor, yep. Um, and then we do a lot of on site work with those employers. So we're present at like our, our contracted employers in, um, Weld County, in City of Greeley, Madwire, Summitstone, a handful of places that we're actually on site with them. Yeah. Uh, offering their employees mental health. And that was really just starting. Um, during our first conversation, I think you had maybe just like Weld County or something was your first pilot. Good memory. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I don't remember. That was a long time ago. Good job. It's funny. Sometimes I tell people things that they said in my podcast and they're like, you still remember that from that conversation? That, yeah, it just kind of sticks. Impressive. A lot of it does. Um, that was my, my highlight of, probably one of my highlights of that season is when you shared that, That your first full year of loco membership was you, you 10 X to your income. That's true. Yeah. And it was mostly because of COVID making people crazy. Well that, or that helped. That helped business. Yes. It helped business, but we were so grateful because we had already set so, so much of a foundational, uh, process. We had, we had the foundation built when that happened, then we were able to jump in and be able to help support just community clients, but also the employees on that end, too. Because, as you know, I mean, it was pretty devastating for a lot of people there. So being able to just solve that problem right away, it was it ended up being good. On the, This is a terrible question to get right into, but on the whole, do you think, uh, the, the Trump reelection is more or less traumatic to the average populace than the COVID lockdowns? You know, we, um, we do notice that, that clients need to talk about it. Clients need to process it. They, no matter which way you lean, no matter which way you swing or lean, um, Oh, even the ones that are happy about it? Yeah. They're still talking about it. Yep. Yep. Yep. Clients are coming in and just processing. Because it was a heavy election. It was a lot of weight on it. Well, according to both candidates, it might be our last election if the other candidate won. Exactly. You know, that seems serious. Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was heavy. So we did. We, I definitely appreciate it. I try to prep my team, my supervisor. It seems likely your pipeline is good for a while. Like everybody is going to need a few extra sessions for a season. Yep, yep. My supervisor tried to prep our other team, our therapists, to be able to just, how do you handle these conversations? How do you support your clients no matter which way they lean? How do you not put your own bias and your own personal opinions, um, onto them? Because that, that's not okay. That's not okay. If your therapist does it, that's not okay. Are you, is the thrust of your growth been in the employer services space since that time? Are you, you're still offering the membership services kind of experience, but that hasn't been, so you've become more of a B2B company from a revenue growth standpoint than a B2C. Yep. As far as the, um, totally. We still have the, the community membership, we call it. And, uh, anybody can come in and be able to come see us for therapy. If you're just anybody in the area, um, come see us for therapy. And then we do a lot of our work with the employer, but then the employer only a lot, so many sessions per person, and so then if they need or want more than they are able to come to us as a community member. Convert to private pay or whatever to do, do employers get like a. A discount? Like a wholesale rate, uh, on that? Yeah, it's free for them. Mm hmm. The employer For the employee. Oh, yes, for the employer. But even the employer gets a little discount compared to just the average retail buyer that takes X dollars of marketing to get to and you can kind of stack them at the employer's place, right? Yeah, exactly. We want to, we just truly want to make it accessible. Um, we want it to be easy and simple. I think the biggest, uh, Hang up the biggest obstacle for people to get the services that they need is all the hoops that they have to jump through, right? If you were needing a therapist and you went online and Googled therapists in Northern Colorado or Fort Collins in particular, the list is daunting. It's long. You don't know where to start, right? You don't know what these acronyms mean. LMFT, LPC, LCSW. It's, it's overwhelming for me and I know all of those things when I was looking for my own therapist. Yeah. So. We wanted it to be simple. So with a click of a link, you're able to find which therapist, what would be a good fit based on their bio. And then you can simply book it. Um, we always do free consults and things to make sure it's a good fit for the client, but, but we wanted it to be accessible to, right? Like they have read a refusal. I assume. Yeah, sure. Yeah, absolutely. If it's not a good fit, usually it's, um, mutual, right. Typically. So, so if that's the case, then we can refer in internal or external if needed. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and is that. Like from a, like, are you going to try to grow more and is it going to still be in that employer services space? Cause it's just efficient or like, what's your, what's your vision for IOMI? It's a good, that's a great question that I always am toying with because I am an Enneagram three. I love achieving. I love going and I love, um, working and problem solving and creating something from nothing. And so I think it'd be really hard for me to just sit still. I know it's really hard for me to sit still. Right, right. But you also have young children. I have young children. How old are they now? Ten and six. Okay. Almost six. But yeah, she'll be six. So actually you're probably freeing up to some extent because the six year old has just started to go off to school. Ten year old will be doing lacrosse and whatnot soon, but not yet rodeo. Is that right? Uh huh. Yep. They're both competing. And oh, wow. In fact, the little six year old, she won her first saddle this summer. And uh, like three belt buckles and all sorts of stuff. So I noticed your belt buckle there. That's a different kind of, uh, Did you, like, have a quarterly sales champion at Mary Kay or something? No. Um, no, Michael Kors. That's funny. I remember, because that was what you did before you started IOMEA was a rockstar, rockstar Mary Kay gal. Yep. Yep. It taught me all things business that I, I didn't, that you do not get in a master's degree of counseling. That's for sure. Yep. Yep. Yep. I should have worn my belt buckle with like the actual. You do have a Mary Kay one, do you? No, no, no, no. More rodeo style. I should have worn my barrel racing belt buckle. Just for the occasion. My, uh, my brother's daughter is barrel racing actually, too. Oh, no kidding? How old? Um, I suppose she's 14 ish. Local? Or where is she from? Uh, North Dakota. Oh, fine. Well, tell her. I'm cheering her on. Um, he's got like five hay burners right now. They're also watching somebody's like Scottish Dwarf horse or something like that. Like half the size of a, of a Shetland pony. Oh wow. Or Amish. Amish Dwarf pony, I think is what it's called. But it's strong. It can, it can haul. It's like a 400 pound horse that can haul a 300 pound guy around. Oh yeah. They're silly. Horses are cool. Anyway, I digress. Uh, we can talk about horses the rest of the podcast. Um, what do we want to talk about? Like, I started asking a question about what that growth could look like, and you're kind of a You know, doors will open if I'm supposed to walk through them kind of girl. So I don't want you to, you know, lay out all your plans. No, no, no, I'm totally good. I, I do. I, I want to grow because I see the work that we're doing and it is making a big impact. And I, I see the problems that we're getting to solve with these clients. We're, we're really, truly, and I'm not saying this from a state of arrogance, but we're really, truly making differences with people who would not have gone to therapy without us being at the workplace. And so the mission behind it is still very prevalent and it's needed. And it like, it fires me up in a big way. And so I still have a mission and a purpose in that. And so part of me is like, well, why not build it? Why, you know, why, why would I not? Allow other people to have access to this because it's a broken system out there. A traditional EAP mental health. It's, it's a little bit broken. And so we're really like, we're really shaking it up. And that's kind of across the country, but it's also Colorado specifically is taking a lot of, I've put a lot of regulatory pressures on the industry. Um, it's that and, uh, The, the demand is higher, the EAP, the Employee Assistance Program that, I mean, there's a list of things like it's been around since the 70s. So it's the same since the 70s and it's 2024 for goodness sakes, like we need to be shaking this up. Yeah. Um, and, and basically what it is, it's just, I hate to say this, but I think it's just It's the, like the tick, like, okay, well, yep, we were offering mental health. Like we just checked that off. Yep. Right. This is what we have. But utilization is less than 2 percent for these companies. So nobody's using it. Nobody's accessing it because they have to go through so many hoops to get to the actual therapy. Um, and so that's why we're jumping in and our utilization for the whole company is over on average is over 20%. Wow. So from the measly 2 percent nationwide average, wide average to. I have a, uh, a new prospect for loco think tank, um, compost queen. Okay. Um, and you'll get where I'm going with this. Tell me more. So, so they, they do well, they started on an individual basis, you know, come pick up your compost and you get a bucket and we can deliver you your compost when it's ready and stuff. If that's what you want. Scaling into commercial type applications, but you got to have clean stuff. And so an idea that, that actually floated, uh, when he came to a freethink recently was, well, what if you had like an employer would just have compost buckets and you could just take your bucket home, bring it in, we'll have a single source collection. And it's just an employee benefit. Way more people would compost if their employer just made it really easy for them. Exactly. And it would be cost effective. And way more people go to therapy when their employer makes it easy for them. Yeah. I mean, that's what it is at the end of the day. A hundred percent. It's gotta be simple. Exactly what I was imagining. And then, yeah, it would, the, what's that? The uptake rate. Mm hmm. Right. If they, if they see and, and do people, Are you going on site? Is there like a? Yep. So several of our employers have us, um, contracted for a certain amount of, like the larger ones, a certain amount, a number of hours per week. And so consistently we're there, we're building relationships. You may or may not have appointments even, you're just there from eight to two on Fridays and a few of those are booked. If you were just kind of walking, is it private so that people can, uh, not see who's checking out the counselors this week? Exactly. Yep. Yep. Definitely private, confidential. Um, and then, yeah, we, we have those sessions available and that utilization rate's over 90%. So people are coming in and they're Oh, wow. Um, and even though they don't have to, I mean, it's, it's unlimited. It's free, it's easy for them to come or go or interesting or not, but, but they're coming. So, and then you can contact the employer and be like, Hey, uh, we're full. Do you need more? Yeah. You want more hours? Yeah. Mm-hmm Here's the next package up. Yeah. Interesting. Yep. Um, what do you dislike about the industry? mental health industry. Um, the, the red tape, the, uh, yeah, the, the, the barriers that they put in, in place like state line barriers, for example, um, it's getting better. There's, there's movements, there's, there's actions happening right now that this should help. But, uh, for example, if I have a client that lives here in Colorado and then they turn around and move to Cheyenne, which is 40 miles north, I can't see them legally. Because I'm not licensed in Wyoming, and so they would have to drive across the border and have their session in their car and then they could still do a virtual session with me in Colorado, but, so some of that red tape that's just super frustrating. But aren't there like national organizations or, but they're getting licensed in all these states and stuff and then you gotta carry a license and do all the community ed. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it's getting better. Um, it's getting better. There's, there's the compact that's supposed to be helping this and that way it's, um, going to be easier for us to get licensed in multiple states, but it is one of the bigger barriers that I think is pretty silly because we can be doing, we can do mental health very easily virtually. I mean, I always would say and argue that in person is better, but, um, virtual is better than nothing. So yeah, for sure. Um, will you always be in person first? Organization. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I, I can't imagine not. Um. I think we would. Cause even if we grow outside of Northern Colorado, we would have, I would be very passionate about making sure we had like a representative, um, a me wherever else, like in different areas. So. You mean kind of a lead for each location kind of. And are you like, who, two questions, I guess, who, who are your. Yeah. Like a demographically are they established and they just want to be part of a brand of kind of situation here or the youngsters, are you training them? A little bit of both. Um, yeah, a little bit of both. We have, we have our, we have an internship program, so we've had a few interns come in, um, and be able to get their feet wet and be able to support them. And then we offer them the supervision as well. Um, and so we're able to kind of support them And, and help them like, uh, not create the bad habits and set boundaries and protect them in a way because unfortunately newbies get thrown. All the tough cases and way too many clients. And so we have that ability to protect them if you will. And then, um, with, when it comes to, uh, some of the other therapists, then we really try to specialize in each therapist has their own niche, if you will. So, um, couples and counseling or couples counseling to substance use, to trauma work, sports performance, all that kind of stuff. When people go into like rehab or whatever substance use kind of situations, Do they get the same kind of interpersonal therapy in that situation or is it more? Okay. Yeah, it'll be more intensive More than likely it would be a pretty intensive program. Even if it's an outpatient, it would still be pretty intensive if it was a rehab but for those for those employees or whoever it is that we're working with. It just, it may not be enough to have to go into a rehab or an outpatient intensive or inpatient, but they, they need some support around it. And typically what we find is there's underlying anxiety or depression or trauma that's causing the, the, the substance, the decision to drink four glasses of wine every day. If I drink. Two glasses of wine every podcast. Is that a signal? You know, no, I would want to know more about your childhood and your trauma, but otherwise, no, I don't think so. If I was doing podcasts every night and drinking four bourbons instead of two glasses of wine, I have had four bourbons a couple of times and got a little silly, but, uh, we've had some really long conversations and if the bourbon's flavorful, it's hard to stop. Um, so, and then the second question is, is, uh, I guess from an employer's basis, who are your clients? It's whoever they employ. Yep. And then from the membership side, uh, the community kind of engagement, it was kind of a lot of, we'll say, younger ladies at the time. Has that changed that demographic as you've become an older lady and stuff? I don't know if I look older lady, but uh, we'll move past that. Um, so, so yeah. So we, we see a wide range. Yes. Most of our clients, most of our community clients are probably, um, that thirties mid, you know, range or so, uh, women, but honestly, there has been such an influx because of the pool that we're having in the, um, the marketing and the, the word of mouth that we're having at the places of employment. So we are, we are good. Are they use up their allotment at the employer and they're like, Oh, I want some more. Yep. Yeah. Okay. So we're seeing a pretty diverse group of people and kids too, because their family members are. Um, able or part of that eligibility depends on the employer and so we'll see a lot of kiddos. Um, yeah. Do they have to go to the employer place then for that or they can set side appointments kind of thing, whatever. To one of our offices. Oh, cool. That's really neat. And do you, you said you were at the Windsor office today. Do you split time, uh, between the two? Yeah. I'm a little all over. Um, that's one of the goals for 2025 is to simplify my schedule. Yeah. But yeah, typically I, I, I try to work from home on Mondays and just do all the back end stuff and then Tuesdays, uh, Windsor office we have our team meetings and then, uh, Wednesday typically Fort Collins. Thursday I go out to a school and I do therapy with, um, a small rural school out in Grover. Oh, wow. And, uh, work with those, the staff and the school, uh, classmates there. And then Fridays I try to take off. And is that a heart forward project for you out there? Yeah, I mean, it was a result of COVID as well. They had some COVID mental health funds and so they were able to bring me in. And I have just such a strong heartbeat for that rural community and the ranching country lifestyle for sure too. Um, the school's 60, 000 students. It's a great book. Oh, and I see three kids from pre K to 12th grade. So it's a very small school. Oh wow. So it's, it's so small that they don't have a 50 person high school and a 60 person elementary school. Oh yeah. that was even, I had a big school compared to those four kids. Yep, yeah. Yeah. So, so it is, it is a heart project, but it's also part of the, part of the gig. And then Friday's you get off and then Friday's I attempted to Friday's laundry kids shuffling. Is your husband Travis? What's his name? Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, and he was operating a business and. Maybe shut that down recently and went back into just kind of regular jobby job land. Yep, yep. He has his CDL. He delivers, um, like product and feed and things to the local dairy farms and whatnot. So, um, yep. It's a pretty, uh, straightforward, uh, back to the roots kind of thing. Uh huh. Yeah, I think he likes the structure and it works out pretty well because he's got more of the, the benefits and steady and, and whatnot. And then mine's obviously. Here and there. Can you take off Fridays and, uh, Mmm, he, no, honestly, it's Monday through Friday. Okay. Yeah. Sorry, I was going to make a bad joke about that last comment. I figured you were going to go for it. No, I just decided to leave that one alone. Yeah, I already called you an old lady, so. Yeah, let's not go any further. So, um, when we left off, uh, you know, back there in January of 01, it was, Yeah. Yeah. You know, COVID nation, you had seen a lot of growth at that time, but I didn't know anything about like a second location and Windsor stuff. Maybe that's where we could pick up the, the trail of the last few years in your business journey. Does that make sense? Yeah, sure. So, you know, I mean, it's, it's relatively stayed the same since the beginning, which is kind of cool, right? To know that like the mission is the same in the heartbeat and the vision. It's true. It's obviously changed and developed, um, and pieces that I've definitely learned that don't work and pieces that do work and whatnot. But, um, since then we purchased our, our location in Windsor. Um, and I was able to finally make that, that space that I've always wanted, where it's a very welcoming, it's a beautiful space. It's got, um, an infrared sauna in both of our locations now, and it's just more like warm and welcoming. And it doesn't feel clinical. It doesn't feel like a doctor's office, which was something that I, I really wanted to make sure. Um, so that was, that was a pretty cool milestone. If I'm a member, can I just use the Infrared sauna whenever I want? Come on in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a member yet. Um, yeah, we, yeah, we do, uh, packages through there too, but, um. And so, so that happened. And then we grew quite a bit with the mental wealth, uh, mental health in the workplace program. And that's been, that's been really good. So that's honestly been probably the biggest, um, I don't know, like change factor in the company is, is when we get new contracted employers. I mean, it, it grows us by, it grows significantly. Yeah. Each one might be a 10 percent increase in your overall. Um, and then we, we take their, we, we listen to the workplace, we listen to what their pain points are, and then we really handcraft a package that makes sense for them based on their demographics, based on their pain points, based on, um, their, uh, commonalities that we base data with. Yeah. That's typically your Rainmaker role in that is those new employer contracts and contacts. Yep. Yep. So then we go out and grow that. And then, and then that took quite a bit of like, uh, we, we really had to clean up systems and, uh, create the website and the membership programs and, um, the online we're launching an app in the new year. And so there's just a lot of things that we had to clean up. So that way, again, our mission is to be simple and accessible for these employees, all of our clients, but especially the employers. Um, And so we had to do a lot of things on the back end to make sure that it is indeed simple and accessible for these clients to book. Well, and a lot of health regulations around information and data and handling all that and stuff too, right? So that's part of your role is to make sure, if you're not the tech person, make sure somebody is to make sure that all works together. Can I ask about the app? Yeah. Yeah. So is that in the member app? Is it a white label? Is it? What's it? So it's, um, it's going to be through our membership. So then we, the community, any, anybody that wants to come in for therapy, they have the option of joining the membership and then that gives them discounted therapy with us. And it also gives them discounted sauna. And then we're partnered with, we're still partnered with about 50 local, um, self care businesses in the area. Acupuncture, massage. Discounted massages, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. All of that. And so it gives them all of that. And then now we'll have the app on, on our phones to be able to have, um, free courses and then significantly dis discounted courses online as well. And even also reminders of here's your discount on these various member benefits kind of thing and stuff. Exactly. And we'll bring in self care experts. So did you just create that or yeah, that's those are really, they're not as expensive as they used to be. It's, um, through Kajabi, that's my website domain. I think, isn't that what you guys use? I used to use it. You used to use it. Yeah. Um, so it's all under that. Oh, they have like a house app kind of thing now. I see. Okay, cool. So it's, it's, if, if I can do it, anyone can do it. I would say that. Um, so it's, it's a lot more doable. You're mostly feeding the information into the slot. Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Very similar to how you would, you would create your, yeah, exactly. A Squarespace or a Kajabi website, whatever. Okay, cool. Yeah. Um, well that sounds like a nice benefit. Yeah. And probably could. Expand utilization of that, because it feels like you've kind of left that to grow if it grows, but not really promoted it too much. And then pretty much, yeah, because our employees that we're contracted with, um, they all get free memberships. So that's part of the partnership with the, with the employer. Interesting. And so it has a lot of traction and there's a lot of movement on the, on the, on the membership piece. But, um, we're realizing that we want it to be. We want it to be more quality content, and we really do want to be able to give out more information on mental health and courses in particular. So everything from suicide awareness to DBT to perinatal mental health, um, Should Loco Think Tank be one of your partners? Loco Think Tank should be one of our partners. You could have a, you know, some kind of a member discount for that because it is, I assume you would agree, uh, good for your mental health if you're a business owner to be in a place like this. Oh, totally. I could not agree more. Yeah, yep. It's definitely a saving grace. Yeah. Well, we can talk about that. Yeah. It's probably stand out from the rest of your, uh, vacations and hair and nails and kind of all those things. But, uh, you know, we're an open door for that kind of thing. Um, I had the question I was going to ask, but then it slipped my mind. I want to eventually talk about neurofeedback. Oh yeah, let's do. Um, well, let's just go into it now. So I want to talk about some of the other things you mentioned. Um, I'm a, uh, I don't know if I'm an aficionado, but I've learned a little bit about the, uh, what's that called? Platform you use the Enneagram. Enneagram, yes. Um, and then you talked about neurofeedback. Yeah. And the, the, the, the trauma zapper thing. ENDR. No, zapping. Is that Zappy? I thought it's, uh, like flasher or something. Like It could be, yes. Something like that. Neurofeedback kind of thing. Yeah, I can explain further. Of course. Of course. No, I'm already done. I've encapsulated it for you. Uh, yeah. So let's, let's start with the neurofeedback. Yeah. That seemed like something that was, uh, you were kind of becoming an expert in that space. Yeah. No, it's been such a fun experience. fun, new modality for me. Um, it's, um, I think I'm going to be the forever learner. I think that's just part of how I'm wired. Um, and so I had, I kept hearing wind of this catching wind of this idea of neurofeedback and transparently they don't, they don't teach us this at all. At least they didn't. Ten years ago, because I'm an old lady, apparently. Ten years ago, when I got my master's, they really don't talk about the neurology and the neurofeedback and the different modalities, um, of the true brain. It's, it's really talking about the, the therapy of it. There's a book I read by David Engel that's named The Brain. Yeah, yeah. And it's all about neuroplasticity. Yeah, yeah, yes. And that kind of thing. You've probably read the same. So I knew this and, and I was like, man, I really want to know more information about this. And I love being able to offer our clients, our community different modalities because there are going to be the clients who don't want to do therapy. They don't want to sit down and talk about it, which I get, I honor. Um, and there's also going to be those that, Um, I would, I guess I could summarize it just aren't willing or able. They're not able to go there either because they got so much stuff going on or their brain so locked down that they're not willing or able to get into the talk therapy that could support them in the trauma really for whatever it is. Um, so neurofeedback, uh, the one I got trained in is called lens. It's low energy neurofeedback system. So I just went in September, beginning of September, went out to the clinic. Imagine like a shock collar for humans? Nope. Alright. That would be effective for me. Well, we'll know now. We'll tell Alma. And basically the idea is that we know our brain has the chemical system, right? And we also know that our brain has the electrical system. And so what we need to do is, well, all too often we're addressing the chemical system, right? You know, obviously antidepressants and things like that. SSRIs. Yep, exactly. Which there is a time and space for that. Absolutely. Um, but what I believe and what we believe in neurofeedback is that if we address the electrical system, then that is the true root cause of whatever's going on, the symptom, the depression, anxiety, it's an electrical signal that's telling the chemicals to do what they're doing. Exactly. In some way. Yeah. And so if we can get to that electrical system, we can have a longer lasting effect and more efficiently and without the side effects. Right. Um. So, so that's the nuance. And how do you do it? Yeah. So then we have this system, um, that we're able to hook our clients up with. Um, there are electrodes that we just put on the brain sites. So we have 21 brain sites that we will eventually get a full map with. Okay. Um, and then it's measuring, it's just capturing that electrical, um, signal in a moment of time. And then what lens does. Like while you talk to them and stuff? No, so really they're just sitting there with their eyes closed. Okay. Very passive participation for the client. Um, I thought about it. I was like, how fun would it be to, to hook you up when we're in podcasts? We should have done that. Yeah, for sure. Um, so then the client just sits there and closes their eyes. We capture this information and what Lens does is sends that information back to the brain. And so the difference between Lens and a traditional neurofeedback is it's mirroring that information. Should be called mirror instead of Lens. Exactly. Yeah, but it was developed by Dr. Lynn's Oaks. Oh, so that's played play on that. But And then it's mirroring that back and just and just like you said we have neuroplasticity in her brain. It's malleable It can be changed. So then the brain wants to self regulate So by mirroring that back by giving that information back to the brain, it's able to lift what we call a suppression And so it's kind of like this. It's that white knuckle tight Uh, sorry, we've had a Buxelder bug, uh, invasion around here this fall. It's that fight or flight white knuckle tight right grip that the brain can have based on, it could be a number of things. It could be bumps on the head, right? If you got hit in the head, if you had a TBI traumatic brain injury, or if you had trauma as a kid, um, or as an adult, our brains hold onto that information and it, and it holds it. And it's this white knuckle tight. And it says, do everything I got to, I have to protect my human. I'm never going to let go of this because I need to protect my human. That's what the brain says. What we, what we need to teach the brain is it doesn't have to hold on so tight that if we release this, if we lift that suppression and we're able to be more high function, all the things, right. I like to say about kind of our, Membership and just the, the cultural approach at Loco. If you, if you love somebody, hold them loosely. Yeah, truly. Yes. And then the brain kind of thing that you just, and even I talk about it as it relates to the union, you know, in this post traumatic Trump, uh, you know, thing coming on, well, you know, the one thing that we can do as America to, Care less about who the president is is make the president's job less important. Yeah And loosen the ties that bind between the states that you know, yeah, don't like each other's policies and principles. Yeah Yeah, and just work on our own self our own mental health. I mean, yes reactions our own Worry about yourself, you know, I, there's just, I've got that little girl's video in my mind, that old viral, worry about yourself. She's telling her dad. It's kind of that. Well, and we. We, we all look at, you know, going back to lenses, uh, too many of us, our lens to the world now is only occasionally filled in a one on one personal basis, but the rest of the lens is the screen of your phone and your computer, uh, which creates its own set of anxieties. Absolutely. Yeah. Interesting. Absolutely. So, so. So, why does a person that would be resistant to counseling otherwise, why are they willing to do this neurofeedback thing? Just because of the, it's easy, it's not quite as threatening, you just plug it in and go. Yep, exactly. It's such passive participation. So, EMDR, it's um, the trauma based therapy I mentioned earlier. Yeah. It's, it's intense, it's emotionally draining, it's, you have to go more, there's, there's modalities. I'm thinking like clockwork orange kind of stuff is how I imagine EMDR. Do you know what's a clockwork orange? Oh, you need to watch a clockwork orange. It's an old, uh, uh, hippie kind of crazy, uh, you know, eat some mushrooms and watch a kind of a movie. Okay. Um, but so that's. It's so intense that some people are just not able or willing to get there and it's uncomfortable. It is. It's uncomfortable. It, it serves a purpose and it's going to be better in the end. Um, but this neurofeedback is, is just truly allowing brain optimization. I mean, that's at the end of the day with, with a passive participation. So do you change the signal then? No. First you mirrored it. Oh, but the brain just takes that signal and it's like, Oh, I'm looking a little low in quadrant number 37 or whatever. Yeah. Yep. The 21 sites. So I'll give my own brain example. All right. So I went out there and I got, um, got the training and of course we were doing it on ourselves and I was telling my husband weeks leading to this, I was like, man, I'm so excited about this because I am, the brain fog was just really, really significant for me there for a while where I just wasn't remembering things and word recall was really difficult for me. And there's just a lot of signals that I was, Concerned about it. And so, so I was like, well, I'm really looking forward to this. And then I did, um, I did a handful of sites, especially on my frontal lobe, which is executive functioning, which is word recall and all of those things. Um, and they were all in the frequency, which was, uh, the Delta state, which is basically a deep sleep. So I was walking around. Basically, sleepwalking, my frontal lobe was in Delta, um, and it was very locked down, which means, so there wasn't any, um, it was very suppressed. Yeah, yeah. There wasn't any variability. Inflexible, exactly. And, so then, when I needed to be activated in, in presenting or speaking on a podcast or presenting in front of Weld County employees or whatever it may be, I was really struggling because, you know. My frontal lobe was in Delta state. Um, and so now that I've done it several times, you can see, we even have the maps that we're able to print out and now you can see my frontal lobe is. Oh, you're making me want to do this. It's cool. It's really cool. I've had like, interesting, like sleepy. Mm. Lately. Like, not brain, I'm kind of like brain fog, I suppose, but where I just want to rest a little bit in the middle of the day kind of thing and not really think or do for a little bit. And that's not been my. That's not your normal. Normal. That's not your status quo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see that. Um, that's an interesting, well and I, so I took some, uh, LearningRx, are you familiar with that? They're not too far from your offices over there. Mike was a member forever. I remember that. Um, and he gave me his, like, had me do his testing stuff and I was all, like, basically like, not to brag, but I was like, 85 to 95 percent in all of these little categories, except for, uh, short term recall, and I was like 41%. Oh, interesting. Um, and I was like, well, but why? Do you see that? Is that true? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's easier for me to remember a podcast that I did with somebody three years ago than it is. You know, to remember to grab the bananas on the way home from work, you know, or whatever. Um, even though Jill just texted me like five minutes before I left the office, you know, Hey, can you grab me some bananas on the way home? And partly maybe it's just resentment. Cause I'm just fucking get the bananas when you were out, you're out yesterday. Why do you, why do I need to make an extra stop for freaking bananas? I don't even care about bananas, but that's, that's in our marriage counseling session. That's good. Hey, we all need it. Um, so, so it's kind of a plug and play and how do you charge for it? Do you have to have a counselor there like in attendance for that? And it's just a little short, 15 minute kind of. Yeah, no. So good question. So the way that we do it is it's an hour intake. So we bring the client in, we go over quite a bit of questionnaires because we need to figure out how much to quote unquote dose the person, um, how much to give them of the feedback, right? Um, because some people are going to be more discerning, more sensitive to, to external stimuli than others. Um, and so we need to figure that out through a series of questions and, and, um, and take paperwork. And then once we do that, then we, we typically will get the full map, the all 21 sites at the beginning of the session, again, depending on the client. And then from there, we have the map to be able to see, okay, hey, is, is all in Delta. We got to, we, and it's locked down. We really need to be able to lift that suppression. Um, and then we're able to notice some other of the, uh, other things, like some of them can be too, too much, uh, variability where it's, it's too reactive to things. Um, and so we're really assessing that map and figuring out what those pain points are of the client. What's the. symptoms they're noticing. So we're really just mapping all of that out with them in that first session. And then from there on out, um, it's about like eight to 12 sessions is kind of what's recommended is typically average. Um, you'll, you'll see results. You could, you can feel results even in the first session, but to be able to have that consistency. Um, and then about a 30 minute session is all it is after that. So then they're just coming in, being able to. And are you like, like, is the frontal lobe is, is in a Delta state or whatever? Like you mentioned, can you like turn up the, the feedback power on that portion and back it off on those other spots? We really want to do that. No, the brain, gosh, the brain is so cool. Like it is, it does pure information and it will do with it what it will. Yep, exactly. And even if. So we, that's why we do the full map. Even if somebody came in and was like, I'm only worried about the frontal lobe. Um, we would still do the full map because your occipital lobe is very much connected to your frontal lobe and, and vice versa. So we would still do the full map no matter what. Um, And then we may just see like, okay, after five sessions, you know, you're doing good. Let's do, let's reduce to once a month and then once a quarter and just little, little checkups. If there's like a targeted outcome at the end that you're just kind of feeling better about things. This is a depression breaker mostly, or what are we searching for? It's totally up to the client. So we, we identify at least three. three or like two to four different, um, pain points that they have. And based on those pain points, that's what we're looking for. So, um, depression, fatigue, and brain fog. That could be a client's pretty, pretty typical, you know, uh, reports. Yeah. And then they come in and we scale it zero to 10. Where is it at? You know, eight, nine, seven. And then I'm asking questions like, well, how do you. How would you or your loved ones know that you're doing better in brain fog, right? How would you or your loved ones know that you aren't as fatigued? Um, and then they're able to say what they want out of it. Um, well, I would feel more confident in having conversations with people at work. I would, I would be able to get up out of bed and have energy to go on a walk or whatever that may be. So they're naming the things that they're really longing for on that appointment. Um, and then that's what we're looking for. So each checkup we're asking, okay, where are you at on that scale? Outcomes based ultimately. Yeah. Which is really. quite thrilling for a therapist because everything is so much greater. And so we actually have reports to be able to look at and, and, uh, some more scaling than usual. It's not kind of a self diagnosis of, okay, I'm feeling better. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is a lot of it. Let's be honest. I mean, the report is just capturing a moment of time. We want to know what that, what that client is going through, how they're feeling. personally experiencing it, um, and, and then that's, that's what my results were. Just at that, after that first few times I did it there, um, just a couple of times being able to come in and I, I was in a meeting with, um, with one of the, with, uh, uh, perspective and I just felt sharp. I felt clear. I would, my word recall was right on point. I was like, Whoa, I feel this. You know, typically it's hard to notice. It's like if I had a rock in my shoe, I would notice it all the time until I take the rock out of the shoe. And then I'm not even going to notice anything. Right. So it's, it's, it's really up to the client to be hyper aware and honestly, to have the buy in from their loved ones, that's going to be important too. And so even when I hooked my husband up, cause of course I do, um, um, For me to be able to say, Hey, you haven't been as droggy in the morning. Like I totally noticed that. And he's, and then he's able to say, Oh yeah, you might be right. Or you were more patient with the kids or, you know what I mean? I'm able to see things more than maybe he is in the vice versa. Are there any downsides or no, there really isn't no school shootings or nothing like that so far. Gosh, no. It seems like the SSRIs is pretty. Pretty much linked to all of those. I, that's why, like, if we can get away from that, my goodness. Make America healthy again with the electric zaps, not chemical zaps. Yes. If we can get to the root cause, the root cause of trauma, the root cause of depression or whatever, whatever that ailment is, the root cause of a TBI, right? Um, the, the number of, and I like, have you ever had a TBI or brain injury? I That's what I hear more often than not and then the client's like well I mean, yeah, like I played football all through school and I got knocked out cold I mean there was one time when, uh, when kids in the locker room, uh, had me by the feet Like two different kids had me by one foot each and I was holding on to the wall between the shower and the locker room. Yeah. That was like a four foot or five foot high wall. And then they pulled me off of the wall and my head came down and hit the concrete floor. Mm hmm. So, yes. Could have been. I had a big, big ol goose egg on the front of my forehead for a while. Maybe. So, I would say so. Seems likely in reflection. Much more often than we think we've had. I don't know if we would classify them as a true TBI, but we have had brain injuries just from day to day, bumps on the head, things that we've gone through, our sports that we've played. Oh, and I've hit my top of my head cause I'm a tall guy. And like, I remember one time in particular, I, when I lived in Fargo during my college years, I was running up the stairs cause I was in a hurry cause I. I probably didn't have a date, but, um, but I was bringing my laundry basket up the stairs and it had like a low entry thing and I, you know, just as I stepped up, I just slammed my head directly squarely into the top and literally like fell down and saw stars and got back up a couple more times. Minute or two later, I mean, really, for sure. And so then what the brain does is it suppresses itself because it wants to protect its human, right? It wants to like, hold onto it. And, and that's a physical trauma, right? But the brain does the same thing over an emotional trauma as well. And so it's, it's, that's the job. The brain's number one job is to protect its human. And so we. We have to help it, but it's a helicopter mom. We don't want the helicopter mom. We want to have some freedom, that, that open hand mentality. Right? Right. Well, and I'm starting to think about substance abuse. I, you know, I offered you, uh, either, this is homegrown marijuana, if that matters, pure organic, um, but also the, the, the magic mushroom also opting out, but I appreciate it, but people use, use substances probably that like, Ultimately, it's almost like their subconscience of their brain protecting their human from all the, you know, the, the, the drama of either the drama or the, the, or the, just the boredom of regular old, not high life or whatever, but also the, because if, if we're locked down and if we saw Matt, like the maps that I'm talking about, then we would just be locked down in this like status quo, flat line. Right. Yeah. That, that it, and if it's in a Delta state, yeah, we need excitement. We need to be able to activate the joy from, we need to activate the fight or flight response, the sympathetic nervous system. Right. We need that. And so some people can't get into that because they're so locked down in parasympathetic or vice versa. So many people are, are constant in fight or flight that they can't rest and digest. And so we need, right. the ebb and flow. We need that. Like that's a good thing. Um, and I think we have, we have adapted substances or not or traumas or not, whatever it may be, but I think all too often we're just We're stuck. We're stuck. I, uh, am not just a podcast host, I'm also a podcast consumer and, uh, somebody was making a joke, you know, well, with Trump, it's going to be the same thing as with everybody else. Uh, you want to talk about mushrooms and ayahuasca and this and that, but, but like he's convinced that he was just talking with our vice president elect about, especially about, um, uh, the psychedelic mushrooms and Ketamine as it relates and there's one other chemical that's like, oh, I I've gain or I Bogdan e or some Ibogaine. Yeah, so Terribly disturbing experience like not recreational at all, but it gets a lot of people out of these kind of cycles of Trauma, apparently. And like, what's your professional perspective on that? Or is it just no enough? I really, truly don't. And I, I just haven't honestly, transparently, I haven't had the time to, to lean into it and to do the homework and figure it out. Um, I think the concept that from again, the little bit that I know is to be able to break. The stuckness, right? Break the cycle to be able to give yourself your own empathy. You're like, well, they could just do eight sessions of my neuro thingy here. Maybe. I mean, and I don't know to each their own, right? Whatever works for them. Truly. I believe in that. Um, again, I would, I would, I would want the thing that's, that doesn't have the side effect. I would want the thing that's not going to have a lasting negative effect potentially, right. Um, or become dependent on it, um, or use it as a crutch, et cetera. Sure. Um, So, I don't know enough. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I really don't. Um, uh, series suggestion, uh, Three Body Problem. Yeah. On Netflix, there's a new series. Oh, really? Um, and Uh, it's, I'm not in far enough to tell you the whole plot, but there's like somehow all the physicists of the world are like going crazy unless they stop practicing their craft. Like there's somebody trying to kill science virtually in this, uh, um, and. I guess the, the notion there is like the puzzle is always challenging, right? Um, but you've got a lot of optimism over this, uh, what do you call it? Neurofeedback? Neurofeedback. And is this like a captive, is there like one company that kind of controls this technology right now or has it patented? This one in particular. Yep. This one in particular is Oaks Labs, um, out there in San Francisco area. And, uh, And yeah, so they're the ones he's founded this. He created it back in the nineties. It's been around. Yep. So it's been around for a really long time. And the difference between like a traditional neurofeedback, which there's quite a bit of options out there for that, but that one's going to take more active participation from the client. So it'd be the similar and similar in the sense of, um, capturing that electrical wiring of the brain, that whatever, um, that information, but then the client is watching a video or audio recording and it's interrupting the pattern. So it's basically sending it more of an active interference into the pattern versus this one. And studies show that it's more effective because it's mirroring it back. And then that's what is giving the brain, um, Yeah, well, the brain adheres to the change more because it made it itself instead of getting kind of short circuited into it. Yeah, interesting. Um, anything else new and trendy in the world of, uh, brain understanding? Yeah, I mean, I think that How do you keep your the right plasticity. Yeah. Great question. So I, I'm now practicing neurofeedback on myself and I even have my, my husband and my kids hook me up, and it's great. And it's super fun. Um, but, uh, but honestly, like I, I know it's a, it's a broken record for me, but truly like consistent and proactive self care for me is critical and it, Yes, can be me going to my own therapist and talking through my stuff, but it's also going to be me waking up early, having quiet time before the hustle and bustle of little kids and the school demands and all the things. Friday's mostly sometimes off. Yes. Friday's off is really important for me to have a day, at least a day off with no appointments is really valuable, but also I'm very much an extrovert where I need to be out. I couldn't just be a, a stay at home mom. Like it would not be good for me or my kids or my husband. So, um, So knowing, knowing, I just, the self awareness of, of how I'm wired and who I am. And, and knowing that my, I'm an Enneagram three wing two, knowing that those things are really important to the helper. Yep. Yep. Um, and practicing that and being proactive, right? So when I start to see like, Oh, I'm just a little more irritable or, um, I'm getting sick more often or whatever that is, then I make sure I sit in my infrared sauna. I make sure that I, I scheduled the time. I make sure I work out, um, go on runs and whatnot too, because that's And riding my horses. And, you know, I have the hobbies. Um, and I do believe that that's something that's. Important for me to, for I think everybody I would argue, but yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, would you like to ask me any questions? Oh, I was going to ask you, uh, I was going to ask you what you think. I probably shared this with you in our first podcast, but what would you guess my Enneagram to be? Oh, I did. I did. I do remember you asking that and I don't remember what I, what I said. Um, are you a seven? Do you know? Have you taken the assessment? I am. Yeah. Uh, seven predominant. Well, seven, eight are pretty much equal usually. That was right. I didn't listen. I didn't cheat, I promise. I didn't even listen to it. Um, but yeah, I could see that. Um, and I find it to be a really interesting platform as well. Your chapter, has your chapter done the Hallows thing? Yes. Okay, I thought so. Don't ask me what I am. Yeah, you don't remember. Oh, I'll have to dig that back out for you one of these days. I'm more of a compartmentalized, uh, like, I just remember, I have a lot of specialized knowledge and I remember certain things that are really important to day to day. Yeah, yeah. I don't have a lot of the general knowledge and memory. Well, I'd like to get you excited about Halos as well because it's got some, some similarities to the Enneagram and some things that are just kind of simpler and easier. Uh huh. Uh, to, uh, implement, I guess I would say, um, you know, uh, Enneagram is really exciting in theory, but it's kind of sometimes you gotta get deep before you start to really understand how to do stuff. Yeah. Uh, so anyway. Yeah. That's fine. Um, yeah, go ahead. Uh, okay. So what's going on with Loco Think Tank? Where, where are you at? How are you doing? I'm, you know, I'm okay. We're, we're about the same membership today as we were, Last year, this time, so that, well, it's good and I guess, you know, I've heard that from a lot of businesses that it's been a fight to stay the same size in 2024 revenue wise as they were in 2023, just some, you know, challenging marketplaces and whatever. Um, but after years of growing at least 10 or 15 percent every year, it feels like a L. To be honest, um, so that's okay. Uh, you know, I've been goofing around with my ambulance camper. I love that. That's good. We've been out there a lot, but it's broken right now. I'm trying to get it repaired. So that's good. And yeah, we're doing some of the EOS stuff. You know, Alma is a natural integrator and, um, allowing a, a, a, 21, almost 22 year old, the confidence to, to grow into that space of really being an integrator is, you know, uh, you know, I think she questions that more than I do, uh, but not that much, you know, she's confident. So that's been fun to see her grow a lot in the last year and a half, especially, um, I don't know. Yeah. You want to get into therapy questions? Sure. Sure. Yeah. Do you want to, do you want to just do a quick, uh, your first, uh, five minutes of a session with a prospective new client here? Oh yeah. I was going to ask those same questions of like, what's the pain points? What would you, what would you need more of? What do you long more of in your life right now? From a business focus? Personal. Personal. If you're willing to go there. Yeah. Um, you know, health is one thing I would like more of right now. My, my knee is. Inflamed and psoriatic, uh, psoriatic arthritis. Okay. And so, like, I can't really run very good or walk a long ways right now which is annoying. Yeah. What is there? I don't know enough about it. Is there, are there things to do to heal from this, to recover? Yeah. I mean, diet, you know, uh, for me, gluten is a trigger for it. It's I'm going to the beach here on Friday. So a lot of sun helps a lot with that. So that'll be good. Yeah. Um, alcohol, I'm not supposed to drink alcohol. It's not supposed to smoke either. So, you know, all the bad things. Yeah. Um, But mostly it's just patience and he's an auto autoimmune thing. So it'll stop attacking you as soon as you've kind of let it settle down Yeah, have you ever done an infrared sauna? I have yeah, actually I have That's one of the reasons that it caught my interest is because I've done that as a preventative in the past for I've mostly had my psoriasis arrive in Like skin for sure. Yucky skin kind of things and cracked lips one point in time I think maybe even at that time that we did that podcast I don't know. I remember one part of the COVID season. There was that so So but otherwise, you know, my sleep is pretty good relationship with Jill is pretty good we have great conversations and stuff We've got an exchange student but the I would say I'm at least a little bit depressed because just the last year is the first time I've really had physical limitations of consequence. Okay. Yeah. So that's annoying. Yeah, absolutely. How would you know it was better? What would you, how would you or your loved ones know it's better? Physical health. Just be able to do stuff. Like what? Like run if I wanted to. Okay. Are you, do you run? Are you a runner? I can't run right now. No, I have run. Typically. Yeah. I was a runner pretty consistently from 42 to 47, 48. Yeah. Good. Yeah, well I hope that. I mean, hopefully that's enough motivation to, to do the self care, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To do the things, to be able to help. I did have a win, uh, this past year. I, uh, about September of last year, I, uh, was here playing ping pong with some friends. Yeah. And I could, I was challenged and it was true that I could barely squeeze out 20 push ups. Oh, yeah. Uh, so that's pretty pathetic. Um. I don't, I wouldn't say pathetic, but. Well, for a dude, it's pretty pathetic. But I, but I. Worked my way up to 50, but by my 50th birthday, so I did 50, even 51 push ups, uh, just to prove it, um, last August. So, and I've done about 50 push ups since then. That's cool. Since then. Well, so do better. Do more. Yeah, I need to get back on the horse, you know. You know, one thing I, I But it doesn't, but it doesn't heal my knee and my knee needs rehab. Well, but I would say both, right? Right. Both and, um, One thing I did this year that I was just like, I want to do the things that are uncomfortable. Right. Because I think again, this soapbox of mine, we just get so complacent and so comfortable and everything's way too easy. Right. Um, so it just little things from the new year. Cause winter, winter months are not good for me. Winter months are tough. Yeah. Yeah. Just for a lot of reasons. But our hobbies, the things that we do love to do, we're not able to do. Uh, we don't ski, we don't do any of this stuff. The fun snow stuff in Colorado. But, um, so I learned how to solve a Rubik's cube. That was fun. Well, yeah, that was something that was uncomfortable that I challenged myself to do. Um, little things from like joining a volleyball league to like things that it took guts and bravery, like to, to step out of the comfort zone to do something, I think karaoke in Mexico once. I mean, it was awful, but you know what I mean? Yeah. Things that are ridiculous, but Learning and doing new things is Learning and doing new things and getting uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are some things that you would do What do you Do you need to get uncomfortable? Do you need to do things that are uncomfortable? I don't know. It's a good question. Um, you got me thinking a little bit like, like when we got the ping pong tables going or table going initially was COVID nation and either the, uh, the house rules is that you play with your left hand if you're up by five points or more. Oh, cool. And so at this point in time, I could probably crush you with my left hand, even though. I would probably guess. Yeah. And so that was kind of fun learning how to effectively play ping pong with my left hand. Okay. And my left hand, you know, I haven't advanced at all in the last couple of years, probably declined because I play far less. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, is there something that would really make, you know, on, two things really, um, is, you know, I think I would be an effective, uh, stand up comic if I, Actually worked on my material and actually tried and stuff like that. That would be kind of fun. Yeah. Um, my wife is terrified of the things that I might say. I'm terrified for you because the anxiety. For her. I, no, just, just that idea of standing in front of people, but I think it's amazing. That's such a great example of getting uncomfortable. I'm confident I'm one of the funniest people I know in a live or improv conversational basis. Oh, I make people laugh all the time. Yeah. And I've never been up on a stage trying to make people do it. Oh my goodness, I think you, you know, you gotta do it. Um, yeah, so that's, I guess, one. That's the easier one. Okay, yeah. I think that should be done. I'd also like to learn how to play the guitar. You know, that's funny, cause I was trying to think of what my new 2025, um, uncomfortable goal was. And I think it would be to learn to I think playing a guitar would be amazing or some kind of a musical instrument. I don't, I don't have that. I have a guitar and I'm a, I'm a pretty good singer already. And it's just like, it would be nice to add the guitar to it. Then you can play the guitar and sing. So I'm holding you to it. Both? I'm not gonna do both. Yeah, why not? Um, because I'm busy. Like they both are gonna take a lot of time. I tried to learn how to play the guitar before and it was hard. It is hard. I got my daughter a ukulele just because she's little. It was little. I don't know. I don't know anything about it. And I thought, Oh, this would be fun. We'll do it together. We haven't touched it since. It was so hard. It's so annoying. You make all these stupid sounds. But somebody that can do it is like music is a really important thing in my life. I just love it. I need to listen to it more. And, uh, It's, I just have a lot of for that reason, I think that for two reasons, I think that if I could learn guitar, then I would have that. Right. And it would just be part of my toolkit. Yeah. And because my wife isn't excited about the improv comedy stand up kind of thing, at least for now, that'll go on a second word you're going to pick on her or Tell some secrets or what? No, I think, well, potentially pick on or reveal things or just be, you know, she's, she's a Christian son of her mother and daughter and very modest and stuff, so even things bordering on sexual innuendo are kind of over the line for her. Okay. You know, I have a great repertoire of that's what she said comments and, you know. Most of them don't really land with her as much. So there's that, and you know, just the, um, And I think, yeah, like, I don't think she, if there was a destination, like if all of a sudden I like blew up and because I'm such a funny comic, I get booked and now people start, you know, I get thousands, tens of thousands of downloads on my podcast, all of a sudden, you know, JD Vance wants to be in my podcast when he announces this 2028 run, right? And she just does not want that. And I think I could kind of surf that wave with some comfort. Mm-hmm Although I don't, you know, I kind of like being, having my guests be the star of the show, and so that's part of why I'm more comfortable in this chair than that one. Sure. Um, but you wouldn't, she wouldn't want the dis, she wouldn't want the optimal outcome necessarily. And so it's hard to say that, you know, whereas I'm not gonna start a band No. And go get famous and that I might become the, you know, uh, uh, uh, the house regular down at, uh. What's the Irish bar down there, um, in Old Town Square? Lucky Joe's. Oh yeah. Yeah. I could be like Lucky Joe's. Yeah. There go dude every Wednesday. Mm-hmm Or something like that. I like it. Like that would be the optimal outcome there. And Joe would be like, eh, that's kind of cool. Yeah. You know? So it's a different kind of ideal outcome is different. Um, any other questions for me? Um. Would you like some more wine? Should we take a break? Oh, you could. Yeah, sure. Okay, let's just take a break. We'll come back and have full glasses of wine. Perfect. I like it. And Rebecca, uh, what would you say that your, uh, belch fart ratio is at home? You know, oh, you make me laugh. We're testing out like interesting or awkward questions. Sure, sure. I think that might be a pretty good one. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Um, Pretty, we're, you know, we're pretty, uh, we're not, we, we have closed, no, we have closed doors in our house. Like, you know, there's some couples out there that have open door policy, go into the bathroom, all the things. No, we closed door. Just closed door. For sure. So you do your farting in the bathroom. Um, I mean, I, yeah, pretty much don't, I don't, I'm not a very much belching earlier, but that's very different. Farts are like 10 times grosser than belches. Is that true? Yeah. We call them toots in my house. Toots. Oh, you don't even acknowledge them for what they are. Okay. I couldn't remember if they were both girls or what, so that's fair. Um, so that's actually a good transition. Um, What would you tell little girls, um, your girls, or we'll even say a, a, a 16 or 18 or 20 year old young lady that's like pre professional career. Sure. Um, maybe she's thinking about going to school for psychology. Yeah. She might want to be a counselor someday. Yeah. She wants to help people or whatever that looks like. Um, or maybe she just wants to have a business. Like to me, you feel like an entrepreneur that has a counseling business a little bit more than a counselor that, yeah, like, I feel like if you wouldn't have fallen into counseling, you would have. You could have owned a plumbing supply store or a Mary Kay franchise, or, you know, something like, it feels like you would have probably found a way to be, not have a boss. Yeah. I always, you know, and it's funny, my dad would tell this story all the time. This is, I'm telling on my dad. Um, he'd be like, all right. One of the sisters, I've got two older sisters. He'd be like, lazy, go get me a beer out of the garage. And we'd have to walk through outside in the cold. We were born and raised in Craig, Colorado. So it was always cold. Um, and then they'd come back with one beer at a time, right? And then here you go, dad. And then 20 minutes later, Kelly, go get me a beer. And then one beer at a time and then Becky, rapid pace. I'm sure Becky go get me a beer. And I would come back with a handful because I'm, I'm, I'm always just like. Work smarter, not harder. So I've always had that mentality. Um, no matter if I've worked at, my first job was Kmart in Craig or, um, you know, no, no matter what it was, I was always just thinking about like, how can I make this more efficient? How can I solve this problem? How can I be better at it? Um, is that your advice? It would be the advice that I would have. And it's, And it is also funny because our daughter just turned 10. She had her golden birthday on the 10th of November. Oh, congratulations. Oh, so fun. What's her name? It's crazy. Briar. Briar? Briar. Mm hmm. Briar. Um, and so Happy birthday, young Briar. Um Like Briarpatch? B R I E R? B Y? No, we actually, it's B R Y E R. Okay. Do you, did you ever, the briar horses, the little plastic toy horses I grew up with Oh, is that a brand of those? It's a brand of those. Yeah. I've seen those all over, you know, walls and stuff like that. They're like the super lifelike ones. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. Um So she has been asking us good questions. And actually just last night she was asking us about college and what job and career and, and she just got this little bracelet making kit for her birthday. And I think I'm going to make bracelets. Mama said, that's awesome. Do that. You know? So I think she, yeah, I think she's got that little bit of a entrepreneur bone in her body for sure. Um, but she, she's asking a ton of questions and, and my, my heart for her or for anyone is to. Do what ignites you, what, um, what you're passionate about, but also know that there's no such thing as perfect. Like there isn't even, again, mental health is passion work for me. Like I really believe in mental health. I want everybody to be mentally sound and free from their trauma and free from all of these elements that we, that we face day to day. I truly want that in the, in my step. Living in a home with somebody that you're not, Connected with, happy with, 100%. So I am very passionate about it, but, and I love the work we get to do and it still sucks. Like, I mean, there's still, there's so many pros and cons and nothing is perfect. No job is perfect. No marriage is perfect. No life is perfect. Um, so my, my advice to her or to anybody that's exploring something is yes, do what ignites you, but also know that there's going to be setbacks. Know that there's going to be hard. Know that, um, It's not going to be perfect and there's going to be pieces of it that you're not going to like, but you're going to have to do anyways. Right. Um, because I think there's just this, uh, I don't know, maybe entitlement's a strong word, but this idea that, that you can, you can. I don't know. Just kind of coast into a successful life in the world anymore. Yep. I think that's a, yeah, I think that's a risk for sure. Do you think that AI is a risk for your field? You know, that's a great question. So let me set the stage just a moment. Yeah. Um, the other day, one of our members did a presentation on. And he was like, well, in this he's like subscribed to this upgrade thing and not a lot, but he's like this, this AI has read 200 million business books. Um, and it's going to help me write my marketing plan for 2025 from the role of a growth strategist, not a marketing agency. Um, and I would think that that same kind of. If I can just talk to chat GPT Yeah. And chat can answer all my problems. Yeah. Is that, I don't know. It feels both so impossible and potentially I was like anti AI there for a hot minute. Yeah.'cause it kind of freaked me out a little bit. But, um, but then I, I started to dabble with it and now I absolutely have it and I, I, I do love it. Okay. Okay. Um. For what are you using it for? Oh, just all the things, all the things, um, content creation, for sure. Just helping me, um, come up with the content for, uh, simplifying things or answering things and whatnot. Um, but then silly things like. What did I do? Uh, how, give me some ideas to throw my daughter an awesome golden birthday party. And it did, it gave me some great ideas. What are some themes? What are, uh, just those quick fire answers that I need that are just stirring inside of me that I don't want to sift through Google for? I go to chat GPT. Um, so I, I think there is a posing threat to a degree, but I, but I also, I just, I know the personal touch is, is invaluable in our business. And cause there's, there's already a while before. The emotion of human expression is really picked up, I would suppose. Right. And I think the words is one thing with how the words are transmitted. And I think the consumer will always know deep down that it is artificial. And we long for God created us for connection truly. And, and in depth, inevitably we are created for connection. And if I know that. This is artificial. I'm not getting that fix. I'm not, I'm not truly getting that, um, that need met. And so I still think that there's going to be a place now there's, there's, there's platforms out there that have been around for a long time, which like texting support and stuff like for, for therapy. Um, so sure that, that would probably easily support. Replace that maybe, but, um, That kind of support thing, but not real in depth because there's just no relationship and there's no relationship. Yeah. There's no relationship. I was trying to think of what, like, if I had a life coach, we'll just call him, uh, like Kurt coach. Like I'm imagining like the Elf on the Shelf dude sitting on my shoulder, like whispering. Maybe I got two of them, one the devil and one not, but I would get kind of sick of this. artificial creature that obviously doesn't care about me telling me what to do, right? Yeah. And, and that, that is, that that's detrimental. That's not, it won't, it won't scratch that itch. You will reduce my success statistics. If you do not. Uh, go apologize to your wife. Yeah. But I have used it for some conflict resolution and things. Um, it is helpful, but. Yeah, it's interesting. It's going to be interesting how it unfolds from here. Yeah. But to be able to cry in front of somebody, to be able to cuss, cry, vent, process, um, to be able to just hold space with somebody eye to eye or, you know, and even if it's virtually too, but, um, that's it. I just don't think that you can replace that. That's why I mean mental health. It's still as prevalent as it is, if not more now than ever before, um, I would argue. Mental health care. Yeah. Mental health care. Or awareness of mental health care. Mental health care. How much do you think it needs to increase to be a healthier world. Like, it feels like when I was a little kid, nobody did it. At least not in my culture. You know? And, again, I think, um, Are there places, are there communities that it's overused? Are people crutching on it anywhere? Have you seen people crutching on it? I mean, I haven't with the demographic that we work with in particular, but Um, I just, I, I, I very much believe that our past affects our present and our present affects our future. Right. And so if we have, um, trauma in our past and we have not dealt with that, it can very detrimentally affect our present and our future. Right. Uh, we work mainly with higher functioning, you know, uh, we're, we're not working with crisis and, and, and Medicaid billing office. No, no. And we're not doing inpatient psychosis support. We can offer crisis support to workplaces if there is a death of a loved one or, or, or a pandemic or whatever that might be, we can offer that support. Um, but we're not the ones that are there to offer this like, um, uh, true inpatient type support. So, so we, we're, we're a little different than, than typical, but you're more of like electric elective surgery than a trauma surgeon. Yeah. And, and our, and our heart is very much preventative. Like we would, Again, it's never too late to get mental health support, but if we can start early, you wanna do couples counseling before the, the divorce? The murder. Suicide. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Not the divorce. Okay. Both, both. a hundred percent. The post murder suicide is harder still when the brain is, is traumatized. When there's so many of these traumas out there. I it, I'm like, do I wanna go down this road or not? Yeah. So if, um. You know, sexual abuse and trauma. Um, if a kid was abused all through their childhood, your, your sexual organs are meant to feel good. Right. And so if I was to, I'm not super strong, but if I was to punch you in the arm right now, you want to, even if you didn't want it to hurt, it would hurt to a degree. Right. Um, if, if somebody was sexually assaulted, it depends on the situation, of course. But, um, It, you know what I mean? So there's this, like, they just wanna feel something there. Is that where you're trying to go? If there, I know this is, this is a tricky, we this is a tricky topic, but, um, I will say this, I close my legs. I had, I have, um, there's, there's evidence that if somebody was sexually abused as a kid, that they will be, that they're, that they would be, um, a perpetrator in the future. Because of this sexual pleasure that they experienced, unfortunately, as a child, because our sexual organs are meant to feel good, that they will crave that same stimuli, even into adulthood, right? And then they will see And even transferring their kind of feelings about that. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? This is such a hard topic and a morbid topic. But, um, Um, if we can support them in that moment, if we can help support them and heal them from that trauma, um, that they experienced, then we can prevent those things from happening in the future. I know that's such a morbid example. Well, no, but I'm explaining that. Well, I'm going back to your neurofeedback thing, like, is that like, cause I, cause I am concerned, frankly, and we could maybe, we'll maybe move this right into the, into politics part of the sphere because I think that's where this brushes off more than anything is the You know the notion, you know, uh, you know, uh, if I introduced you to my friend who was a minor attracted person How would you feel about that He's moving in next door to you. My face expression says it all. That you can't see, but Like, from a cultural perspective and stuff, like, that's starting to, there's a little, there's some weird stuff going around, you know, and with all the, you know, the transing of the kids, and the furries, and the confusion about what is True. What is real? What is a woman? Am I a racist? It's so hard. This is so tricky. This is so tricky. We, we truly honor the person and, and my, my, my stance as a clinician. is to honor the client where they're at, right? And to, to hear them where they're at and to give them space where they're at and to cause no shame or no harm or anything of the sort and to hear what their story is. So I would always listen first and foremost like that. And I feel confident that our team would do the same. Um, I, I think that if we're not allowed to drink alcohol until we are 21 because our brains are not fully developed, I, I just think that that is something that is important, um, to keep in mind for these kiddos because I'm, yeah, yeah, because I think it's just, um, I think it's just important to give space for kids to, they're, they're, they're figuring out so many things. They're, they're little sweet little brains are developing there. They, um, are working through so much in school. And there's just a lot going on. It's intense, always has been intense. You know, beautiful brain. How do I fit in with this? Yeah, yeah. And there's, or how do I stand out in this situation? Like that's the interesting thing is like when you and I were kids, it was a lot more about fitting in. Yeah. Uh, and now the cultural change is really let your freak flag fly. And if anybody calls you out on it, then they're the bad person, right? Yeah. I could see that. Um, or at least a little bit in some communities anyway, you know, people are trying to be unique. Uh, not authentic necessarily, but unique. Yeah. Um, well, and I imagine it's like, what an intense thing when you're trying to help somebody work through, you know, say molestation or sexual abuse as a, as a young person, especially as a young man, I assume is like, there's the ones that, you know, hurt people, hurt people. Right. Yes. Yeah. Well, and a lot more young females are the victims of abuse and what, how does that They always say that, uh, you know, abused people abuse people, but what do, how does that manifest, this is getting a little intense, but how does that manifest for women, um, you know, um, in their adulthood years or whatever, in comparison, I think it's almost the opposite from, and I I'm only speaking from the handful of clients that I've worked with that have had this experience, your personal experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know studies. I don't know the research behind it, but I would almost say it was opposite that they shut down that part of their life so significantly that it wildly impacts their marriage and their intimacy and their marriage. And so I would see that more of a, of a prevalent, uh, outcome. Or, I've had a conversation with a, with a couple, few different lesbians because I'm a curious guy about different things. And to me, it's an interesting thing. And I wonder what your feedback would be. How many lesbians, like, knew they loved girls from the time they were 9 or 11 or something like that? And how many? had terrible experiences with boys or men and decided that this is just a lot safer. Sure. I mean, that's a great question. I almost feel like it's kind of split. Among the traditional, you know, I like girls kind of lesbians. I feel like it's almost a split decision. Like, is that what you heard? That's what I, that's what I've heard in my conversations. Yeah. I've definitely met, I've met at least two that have said it's kind of more a rejection of being with men than it is a super, you don't want to be alone. Nobody wants to really be alone except for a small handful of people. And if you don't, if you can't trust boys, then here's my thing, I guess. Right. Well, no. If, and I don't know, but again, it goes back to trauma, right? If, and, and no matter, no matter what that looks like, no matter if it's, um, gay, straight, whatever it is, if, if we have sexual trauma, it will show up in our sexual relations, right? Like, I mean, it just is, that's, that's the brain. can't will yourself out of that. I'm talking about it as a, a, a, a, Emotionally or physically cold physiological, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, but also just be either way What else you want to talk about in the politics kind of fear you want to brush against your business more in the politics You know are I just I really I I truly I just want to Love the people where they're at. I mean, that's really what we do. We don't, we take a stance of like, I don't want to, I don't, I don't post happy mother's day posts. I don't post happy father's day posts. I don't post any of that kind of stuff on my social media or our email listing or anything of that sort, because I don't know what there's triggers here. There's triggers. There may be. Yeah, exactly. There's triggers here. There's triggers there. I just, I really, yeah, I really just want to. Um, I have my own beliefs and I keep them private because it's not my job to bestow my own beliefs on my clients. And if I ever, and I have heard this, that, um, a client. Well, uh, a person came up to me and said, well, I tried therapy once and, and I sat down with my therapist and, and the first sentence out of their mouth was, who did you vote for? And I said, what? That's so inappropriate. That's so not okay. That's just not safe. Right? Right. Because we can't assume anything. We cannot assume anything. And so I just, I really, I really get pretty worked up about that. I just, I want to create a safe place for everyone to come into my doors and. To be heard and, and their story to be heard in their story, to be validated and to be able to work through whatever they are going through. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever that person is. I appreciate that and respect that very much. And, uh, this is not a counseling session. So who did you vote for? I'm just going to sit over here and drink my glass of wine. Right. You're from Craig. You ride horses. You voted for Trump. You don't know that. No, but I do. I voted for Trump for the first time. Really? Yeah, yeah. First time I've voted mainstream. What trained you? You know, the biggest thing was the, the combination of lawfare, um, and non democratic politics. Democratic party, you know, they blackballed Kennedy out of the party. He would have been a major upgrade over Biden. I might've voted for Kennedy over Trump if it worked out that way. But then the, and they, they blackballed Bernie before that a time or two, you know, they're just not the party of democracy lately. They're the party of the somebody's pulling the strings behind a boot and they hid that Biden was a retard for four years, basically, you know, so yeah, all those things. Um, you know, nobody was fooling me in 2020 about Biden being sharp as a tack and nobody was fooling me in 2021 or 2022 or anything else, but they just, we just didn't see him. So who'd been making, and now they're fricking launching missiles into Ukraine or into Russia today. So, so yes, I've never been a fan, I've never been a bigger fan of the Republican Party than I am at right now. Really? That's pretty fascinating. Yeah. I think it's interesting. I think it's, I think it's fascinating. I think it's, um, you know, if, uh, It would be, I think it would be an interesting topic to bring up with more people, but I don't like confrontation and so I don't like to talk politics. I really don't, I just really don't, I don't like it. Um, my husband can, it's really beautiful. His gift of being able to like, um, Not argue, but debate with people and not be emotionally attached to it. It's amazing. It's a, it's such a incredible quality. I think so. I think you guys would get along for a while. We do. We've talked a few times. Um, and I, I just don't have that. I don't have that gift. And so I usually, I usually choose not to go there with a lot of people. And. And again, I just want to honor everybody where they're at. And so I usually choose just to like, but you voted for Trump. Whatever you totally did. I'm going to show you a, like, actually called it the scariest graph that I had seen in a while on Twitter. And I'm going to see if I can find it here. Is it clown rule? I think it is. Um, so the graph is the, the political disparity. Between 21 to 29 year old men and women in South Korea, Germany, UK, and the US. Woah. Basically, the men are getting more and more conservative in that age demographic and the women are getting more and more liberal. Oh, interesting. Oh, to a tremendous, like, like South Korea might literally die for lack of procreation in the next two generations or one generation. No, that's fascinating. Like, because the women are all too liberal and they don't want to have no fucking babies. They got a career. They don't want to have any childcare expenses, blah, blah, blah. So let's talk about that. Okay. Like, how did that happen? You're an expert on psychology, I would say. And don't claim to be an expert. I, um, I, you know, I don't know, again, I, I really, I, I do specialize in trauma. I don't necessarily have, well, but there's neuroplasticity, yes, a hundred percent. And it can be a healthy neuroplasticity where we can. heal our brains from TBIs and traumas. Um, and it can be a negative where we become so, um, automated and, and whatever we're seeing on Instagram, like our, our, our intake, whatever it is that we're in taking day to day can change our brainwiring. I wonder if I should have a segment on here of the last, uh, like meme or I save a bookmark, certain videos and stuff. Uh, I could, I could be a little clear thing. At one of my shows, 22 little people showed up with the picket signs. They weren't picket signs, they were 3x5 cards. But, they were there. We're gonna finish this one out, you're gonna enjoy this. This is the first, like, I might get sued or copyrighted. We'll see. We'll see. It's the exact same as calling a black person the n word. And I was like, midget, please. Made you laugh. His audience was two black fellows, by the way. Oh, funny. Is that, is that what your comedy, your standup's going to be like? Maybe. Wildly offensive. Not wildly offensive, right up to the borderline of political correctness, which I would say the borderline, the, the Occam's razor, the, the, whatever that term is, it's not Occam's razor. It's uh, the Overton window, like depending on your demographic, what is politically correct to say has expanded quite a bit in the last, I guess, probably since Elon bought Twitter or some shit. I don't know. Um, what's your thoughts in that space of, of just freedom of speech? Because that's another reason that I actually wouldn't have voted Democrat for sure is they were like, we didn't, you know, we can't control what people think if we can't control the information they say online. It's like, well, I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't, yeah, exactly. Um, Yeah, I mean, again, it's just such a different world that I live in because I live in an office with a one, one client at a time where they're safe to say whatever they want. And in fact, I want them, I want them to say whatever it is they want. And when I go to my therapist, I, I make sure that I vet whoever my therapist is to, to be dang comfortable with saying what I believe. And. Being able to play my cards. And you want to be in that safe place. And so do I in this podcast. Yeah, totally. I appreciate that. I think that's a pretty great, but I know you voted for Trump. Let's talk about your family a little more. Um, we did this a little bit, but I don't know that my format was quite as refined. What's, uh, what's your favorite thing about Tyler? Oh man. Uh, his ability to, um, Vote for Trump in a minute. Love me. Just kidding. He, he grounds me in such a beautiful way. Like it's, it's very much a good yang, yang kind of, you know, balance that we have because I am the visionary. I am the guide. Goal getter, the, the go getter and the goal setter. Um, I'm, I, I'm a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I have no doubt. I am a lot. And so I'm always thinking about what do we need to do and what do we need to accomplish? And he's, he's the one that's just like, he executes a lot of that. He executes, but he's also the one that lets me like be present and, and stand where my feet are and be where my feet are. Right. And so he brings me back to reality to a degree and just take your socks off and just go put your feet in the dirt for a minute. Yeah. Yeah. And I always, I always said, and I think I said this in the first one, I'm sure, because it's always been my answer is, is like, I can be a hundred percent me. I can, I can cry. I can cuss. I can, I can just let it all out because there is such a face of a therapist that we do not get to have opinion. We do not get to share our own thoughts and beliefs. Like. And as a business owner, right? Like we don't get celebrated. We don't get, um, we don't get asked, how are you doing? Like we don't get a lot of that. And so he's, he's my rock and all of it. Well, and you can't just tell your employees, you know what? I'm thinking about shutting this whole fucking thing down. I'm sick of people like not showing up or overstating their abilities and whatever, because it is like, it's a real thing. It's tough. To accept that mantle of responsibility, you know, and underappreciated the world would suck if Everybody was either a part of a big company or a solopreneur because like solo businesses can barely do anything. They just kind of suck. They can't follow up properly. They can't build any systems, you know, whatever. And big companies just kind of suck. I mean there's, yeah, small companies create jobs, big companies buy small companies. Yeah. And just like I said, there's no such thing as perfect and every, it, there's cons to being your own business owner and. This, there's cons to being, for working with people, there's pros for working for someone else. I mean, it's, it's just, there's no such thing as perfect. So, it's, it's, you know, you gotta choose your fate. Well, and, my dad always, uh, uh, jokes about, uh, I forget who I use this expression about, but, you know, Oh, it was Pat Stryker. Somebody asked me the other day if I'd ever had Pat Stryker, cause I, I've got Curt Richardson coming out, super excited about, um, but they were like, have you ever had Pat Stryker on? And I was like, well, no. And like, she's not really qualified. Like she got her money the old fashioned way. She inherited it. Like she didn't create any of the wealth that she has. She's been spending it. God bless her. Yeah. Thank you. Doing great things. You know, doing great things. Yeah. But she's not, she's not the kind of people I talk to really. Yeah. I'm a local experience. Yeah. Although I would, Pat, if you're listening to this, I totally would find space for you. Come on in. You can bring a handler or whatever. I'm cool. Absolutely. We could have, I'll even go up to mid, mid to upper. mid shelf for our wine or bourbon selection. So let's talk about your kids a little bit. Yeah. Your girls, um, your 10 year old. 10s and almost six. Yep. Briar in Bristol. Bristol, Bristol, named after the town in England or just a nice B with the Briar? Yep. There's not another kind of plastic horse. No, no. Okay, that's good. I don't know if we had the one word description for kids back then. Oh gosh, no. Probably not. So, we now do a one word description for your children, and you can elaborate, but uh, what would you put that on Briar if you had to boil it? Um, Briar, like, kind comes up, but that's such a generic word, so I'll have to, yeah, and there's so much more to her, but um. But she is. She just has a huge heart. She really genuinely cares for people and has, has, uh, the most beautiful big feelings. Yeah. Well, it sounds like a lot of curiosity about how the world works as well at that age. Yeah. Very curious. Very, like, Um, tuned in, tuned in for sure. And she's, yeah, she's, she's definitely a caretaker for sure. She is the world's best big sister. Like I, I, I, and I know that's, I'm biased of course, but her sister's like, whatever, I mean, my sisters and I, we got in for it. fights, like, whew, it was, it was bad. Right. And, and never in the, I mean, they're 10 and six, so I'm going to knock on some wood right now, but never have I seen that like either one of them have raged to one another. Like I've never seen them swinging a hand or really scream like in a real violent way or whatever. So, and I think that's a huge part of. Briar and how she's just been such a kind and supportive and caretaker type older sister. It's just, she holds that space so beautifully. Uh, I don't, yeah, yes. And then, um, Bristol would be, we lovingly call her Bristol the pistol. So the word is pistol. I mean, she's just a spitfire, which is really funny that you think that because yeah. family would say that briar gets it from me and bristol gets it from tyler yeah really um But bristol's more fiery. She's uh, she she wakes up and she is a hundred miles an hour And ready to take on the world. I mean she's so singing at the top of her lungs, just loving life. Briar takes a little bit. That's, she definitely gets that from her dad. Bristol gets that from, for me. You're a shot of the cannon. I am. I'm ready to rock. I'm ready to rock and roll. Like I stand up. All right. All right. Let's do this. What should I do? Yeah, I get, I get excited for sure. Um, yeah. And then Bristol, she is, she's definitely more of the pistol for sure. Um, But again, she's got a tender heart too. Uh, and it's funny because Briar was definitely more of the adrenaline junkie. So it's completely opposite. She was more of the adrenaline junkie as a little kid as when she was younger. And then Bristol's a little bit more timid, which I would have thought the complete opposite. Um, but they both love and are passionate about the rodeo scene and they go. Are they both barrel racing? Yeah. Barrels and pole bending and goat tying. Okay. Flag racing and all the cute little things for sure. You must be a very minority in Northern Colorado. How so? Rodeo? Yeah. No, I mean it's Oh, it's a big community? It's a huge community. Oh, really? Okay. And we live down in Texas, and I thought We live down in, like, the San Antonio area. Um, and I thought that would be We were it was very different. Yeah, there wasn't hardly anyone in that area that well and we weren't in it Weren't in it because we were so broke, but right Yeah, it is a huge community up here and it is an awesome community Way to keep a little bit of country in their experience and your experience. Yep We haven't We haven't talked about faith yet in this conversation. Again, you'll be scared to share too much, but you did share in our first conversation that you were raised Christian ish. Well, no. Not raised that way. Nope. Not raised that way. Raised indifferent. Okay. Just, you know, nothing. Okay. It wasn't one way or the other. Um, and then come to, come to grow my faith in Christianity. Um, Uh, go to Northern Colorado Cowboy Church. So that's fitting. Um, but it's just a great space to be able to be. Is that the one right by the, I took 34? On, uh, there's a cowboy church there. Okay. Yeah. Yep. Um, Lucerne is, oh, it's a different one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's a cowboy church right there. Kind of on the way up Estes Park Canyon. Oh yeah. Nope. Not us. Okay. Totally unrelated. I think, yeah, nope, nothing to do with us, but, uh, yeah. And so, so just being able to, to be part of that. And again, when. When I was exploring this idea of like, man, is there something more? Is there not? You know, I was just, I wasn't sure what was going on. I was, um, Gosh, we, we had just gotten married, I believe. So 20, uh, what, when did I get married? 24, I think, 24. I know. Right. Curtis, you don't know that? I don't know. We went down to Oklahoma or Texas or something. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So it was around like that, like mid twenties is when I started to just. And Tyler was from more faithful background or not even him either he was he had there was conversation in his household Um, yep, but not necessarily participation necessarily exactly. Okay, so you guys explored together? Yeah Yeah in some ways was somebody the leader in that conversation at the time? I think more so me um Because again, I'm, I'm the doer. I'm not the one that's like, let's go do things. And why don't we see what this is about? Um, and, and I, at that age, I was very much longing for community and connection and support and just. like mindedness and whatnot. I was just really craving connection. Um, because again, even though you were in college and things like that had been recently. I was out of that by then. And then we moved back to Colorado and I was surrounded by him and his family. And I didn't have my family with me and, and, and I had a newborn and. There's a lot of transition there. So, so that's really what led me to this idea of, I knew a handful of people from the rodeo world that were going to this church and I said, well, we could try. I mean, that'd be kind of neat. And, um, and then that's when we really started to exercise that muscle and, and then grow our faith over time. And, and now, um, and now, yeah, we, we go. Your kids vibe with it and stuff, Sunday school. Yep. They go to like a rodeo camp every summer. And, um, Go back to the kid's church and I'm assuming that it's like totally non denominational and probably kind of a What kind of an open for anybody to come and Yes. Engage and be a part of the community, kind of, uh, from a doctrinal level, whatnot. Super welcoming, super comfortable. Um, and that's what I was attracted to because again, I knew, I knew nothing going in. So I wanted a safe space to be able to be myself and to ask questions and to lean into something that was new and different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely fulfilled it and just continued to grow it. Um, and then just started to listen into more and, and be influenced if you will, by more business women, um, especially women, uh, but the faith based business women. Um, Like podcasts or things like that? Like Christie, right. Uh, she was a big influence. She had that better business, um, boutique, I believe is what it was called, but this book, and I still have the book where I wrote out all my goals for IOMI. And it was just, it wasn't even an idea yet. And I had used that book to really help me formulate it. And it was just a lot about like your faith behind the purpose of what you do. Um, so, so yeah. Can I ask you a question around like local think tank has always, yeah. Like it's, to me it is a ministry of sorts, because I think it is, you know, it's just unhealthy to not be in community, especially for that weird place of being a business owner. And I've always kind of kept my faith out of it, but there's, like if there's been a growth sector of peer advisory over the last, Five, 10 years, it has been the faith oriented groups. There's a thing called convene and C12 and locally here, there's a former member started a group called the foundry, which is kind of like local think tank with a Christian sticker on it. And I'm like, I don't feel like that's my calling to be kind of segmented like that, kind of like you in, I want to, I want to help anybody that is kind of, of our people. Yeah. But I wonder. Is that shortsighted of me to do nothing? I, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I, so for my personal monthly experience, should I do bible study here at the office or something? You know, my personal experience with my chapter that I'm involved in is that I share my faith. I, I come in and I say, this is what's going on. And, and half of your fellow members maybe are. fellow Christians and half are totally not. Totally not. And, and they, they love me for who I am. I love them for who they are and we're just able to be on hold space for each other. So, so I, I wouldn't do it different in that regard. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. Now I, I really am. I'm okay with it because I get that, um, uh, I get that need elsewhere. That's kind of what I've always felt like this isn't the place for that. Yeah. And that's how I feel with my business too, is that we're not a Christian company. I happen to be a Christian running a company. But that's not our bread and butter because again, I want to be able to support anyone that wants to and I, and I hope and pray truly I do that, um, that they will still be able to come in and get support no matter what their beliefs are really at the end of the day, because their mental health matters more than that, you know, what would you say about. Like you don't, I mean, we're called, you know, to witness at least to some extent, although I'm sure there's a limited amount of that that you would do in your practice. But to me, um, it feels like Any God is better than no God in some respects from a, from a mental health standpoint, like whether you're Jewish or Muslim or agnostic, but you think there's some kind of a creator up there, not just I'm the boss of me. I think there has to be some kind of a spiritual element. And again, it could be, It could be the universe. Like a lot of people like the energy and humanism and whatever it could be, but I do think that there needs to be a higher purpose of some kind, a sense of spirituality, something bigger than me is my bigger than me. Yep. I do think that's a big part of like overall. Cause in, in my company, we, we believe in that holistic approach that in order to be in our best mental health, we have to address our physical health and then we, we have the mind, body, and soul. And so soul looks so different from people, right? My faith falls under that. Sure. Um, but some people. But so does listening to good, uh, Jimi Hendrix album. Truly. It's like a hundred percent music absolutely falls under like good for the soul category too. Yeah. Or a good run or a nature hike or. Yeah. I don't, yeah, it's exactly being, being grounded and being just centered in that. What, again, no matter what the belief is, um, I think that there's a per, there needs to be a bigger sense of purpose and idea. Yeah. I tend to agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else you want to share on the religion macro topic? No. Yeah. I think it's just loving people where they're at, no matter what that is, as, as, as, as always. But, um, should we have another awkward question? I'm testing these segments out. Sure. Do you remember your first kiss with Tyler? Uh, yeah. Would you like to share some details? So, so we were competing at the college rodeo in, um, in, uh, so we went to Oklahoma Penn Handel State University, the cheapest university in all of the country. Um, it is, but you've got a scholarship, so it was even cheaper. Both competing on the rodeo team. And we were headed to Manhattan, Kansas for our rodeo. Um, it was like, I think a nine hour drive and it was cold. I think this was in February. It was so cold. Right, and the bus windows are leaky. Well, no, we have a truck and a horse trailer, right? Oh, right. Yes, so we have our horses that we have to haul. You were dating already? Nope. No, okay. Um, so me and my old roommate, Krista, uh, we were dating. going to go just ourselves. And then we caught wind that this other group were going and they had room for our horses. So we're like, Hey, it's a nine hour drive. We should just, we don't need to take two cars. We don't need to take two vehicles and trailers. Yeah. Um, so we decided to compile, um, and then, and then, yeah, we just kind of hit it off and you weren't acquainted barely before. Yeah. So we, we, so we both were from, he's born and raised in Fort Collins. Um, and then I'm from Craig. So we Colorado high school rodeo together. And so we would. Travel like of each other a little bit and then decided we happened just happenstance went to panhandle State University together to compete in rodeo and So we're on this nine hour drive and you guys are in the backseat or what's going on here? I need a little more details for our listeners Becky. Come on I just can't give too many details. But, uh, yeah, we were just on a long road trip and, uh, and that's when we, when we started our relationship. Oh, you went all the way in the backseat on the road? Dang, Vicki. Tyler, you're stud. No, I'm just going to assume that's the case. Sorry. If you won't share details, I'm just going to write the story in my own mind. No, we went to the bar that night and then of course we shared our first kiss that night, and we were in college and young and dumb and, and we may have had too many beverages and, and had our first kiss. Truly, truly. That was, I promise you, I was somewhat of a lady. I believe you. Yeah. Um, do you want to share a, uh, loco experience, uh, as our final segment? Yeah, that time you got busy in the backseat of the pickup on the way to the rodeo, I guess. Sorry, your daughters will listen to this. I'm just teasing them. No, I know. They, they know that it was a nine hour drive. It was funny, but nine hours. That's some stamina. Oh man. Well, that's rodeo. I'm telling you guys. Yeah. Rodeo cowboys are just a little different breed for sure. Um, I thought it was eight seconds. Yeah. So a crazy experience, like with, with, with, within what a year, what are we talking about? Yeah. I mean, it could be a moment, uh, you know, because loco experience is the name of the podcast. So a crazy experience, a little play on words, um, but it could be, you know, it could be spiritual. It could be a crazy experience with your daughter where she just showed you how smart she was. I don't know. Any kind of a crazy experience. You know, I, yeah, I, I honestly, like you're kind of a good girl like to be real, I mean, I am. Yeah. Naughty. Kid experience. No, I mean, no, not too bad. Um, I'm very much like we could let up one of those joints right now That would be crazy for you. That would be crazy. You're gonna give me a ride home a little bit You just text Tyler don't come pick you up join with Kurt He would actually probably think it was funny He would, he would. He's, he's so, he would love you nevertheless. A hundred percent. Yeah. Well, that's what I love about it. Becky did it. That's just part of her journey and I love her for it. Yeah, that's exactly Tyler, yeah. Um, crazy experience. I don't know. I mean, well, uh, okay, so this is a fun fact about me. Um, I am a part owner of an outfitting business, a hunting and outfitting business. Oh, yeah. I don't know if I've ever. Brushed against it when we were last in, but it's like an elk property up there over there. So my dad has had this business for like 40, some 40 years or so. Um, and he was just getting ready to get out of it, wanted to, wanted to get out of it. And so me and my oldest sister took over and he's still part owner. Um, and the funny thing is though I was born and raised around it, but it was one of those things. I was also born and raised right next to steamboat Springs. And the first time I ever went skiing was in New Mexico. I didn't do it because it was too easy. Like, I was just like. I don't know, uh, rebel or something. I was like, no, I don't want to do anything with it. So same thing with the hunting stuff. I didn't get my hunter safety card until I was like 26 years old, even though I was born and raised with it. Um, so then dad proposes this idea of like, Hey, I'd really love my daughters to be able to take over this business. And I'm like, well, I don't know anything about hunting, but. Yeah, sure. Let I'm like, because I don't like it by now and I want to keep it alive. Yeah, it's a legacy of it. Um, and, and there are so many, it's nostalgia. It's so many good memories from going up to hunting camp and, and hanging out with the guys and whatnot. Um, so, um, So long story short, uh, two years ago, I suppose it was one of our second season hunters had gotten a bull and he says, I think I got it down. It's over here. And he gives me like kind of the coordinates of where he's at. And I said, okay, it's getting dark. I was like, well, we better go get hands on it because we need to quarter it out before it rots basically. Right. And it's early season, so it's gonna be warm overnight. Well, no, no, no. It's a blizzard. Oh, okay. Well, that'll take care of the rot problem, as long as you get it gutted good. Well, but the snow actually acts as a, as an insulator. And so it's actually worse. Yeah, fair. Um, so, uh, At this time, we're super new to this idea in business. And of course, I'm a, I'm an Enneagram three. So I'm like, Oh, I got this. I can do this. It's just you and your sister. You don't have like a guide or. Nope. It's just, so it's just me and my husband that take over first rifle and second rifle seasons. Um, and so, and then the oldest sister takes over third and fourth rifle season. Okay. Um, so it's just me and Tyler there. Tyler is. He's cooking. He's, he's hanging out in the cook tent and he's already got that going on and I job too. Yeah, he's the cook in our, in our house. Go court of that, Errol, Becky. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, oh, I, it's okay, I'll go. So I go out there and I've got headlamps and we're trying to find this and sure as heck we find this. And, and so they're the Oklahoma boys, we call them and they look at me and they're like, Oh man, we're so excited to learn how to do, um, this gutless quarter that you guys keep talking about. And I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm going to show you guys how to do this. I've never done it on my own. I've only done it with my dad or a gutless quarter. Yeah. You mean you gut it first and you quarter it? No, no, no. You leave the gut bag intact. Yes. Yeah, so for a bull elk, it's just easier to do that because we have a lot of California hunters and they can't take the brain over the state line. Okay. So, and, or brain or the spine, so it doesn't make any sense to pack out the, the ribs or anything. Sure. We leave that. Okay. Um, so you quarter it out. Oh, so you just take the quarters off and leave the, the chest cavity and probably take the back straps and call it good on the body. Yep, and then back straps and the tenderloins. Yeah. So, so they say, I can't wait to learn from you, Becky. I can't wait to learn while you're watching me. And I say, you bet. And that's just my mentality. I'm just like, yeah, you know, we'll, we'll figure this out. It will figure this out. And I, I'm always the yes girl. And then I figure it out on the way. And so I'm out there and I'm, I'm quartering this out. on my own. They're just holding up some legs and helping and stuff. Um, and then we, we get it done and I get the tenderloins and the back straps and all that out. And then, I mean, it is a blizzard. It is snowing. It's pitch black at this time. And I do it all by myself with those guys helping. Of course, we take pictures, we hike back in and then the next morning. So we leave it there now that it's quartered. It's good. Um, and then the next morning we go out and then Tyler and I, Put it on our backs and hike it out. Cause it's in this Valley. And I have a hind quarter and a front quarter in my backpack, in my pack. So like 80 pounds or something. Oh, I think I would, I would think more than that. And Tyler has like hoist me up just to be able to stand. I'm like, okay, I think I got this. And then we get down a little bit and then we, now we have the uphill part and I'm like, I got to take a break. So I sit down and I'm just like, I, I tried to, I tried to stand up, but I was like, my legs are not activating, I can not get up. I can't. And so I, I like topple over and get back up and, and, uh, and it's just, it's beautiful. It's so beautiful out. And it's just this like surreal moment, um, to go out there and just be so like, I don't, yeah. Just the Oklahoma boys. Because like, even though I called you an old lady earlier, like you're a pretty young gal in reality, real terms. And like 37, just turned 37 and they're like out there, you know, watching you in this dark of night, like hack this elk up. They have no idea that you're really first timing it. But I have to think that their level of appreciation and respect for you is like bouncing off the, off the pigs, which, which. As an Enneagram 3, that's, that fills my cup. I'm sure. That fills my cup. Yeah, you're like, eat it, dudes. Like, if you guys could, you would, but you can't, so I'm going to do this for you. And then one of the guys, he was great, and he's like, he's like, afterwards, he's like, you know what I put your name in my phone as? And I was like, well, I don't know. He's like, badass Becky. And I was like, oh, I just am winning. I just felt great. So that, that was a crazy experience. I'm sure. I'm sure. I will forever remember because it was just, and it was surreal too, because we, we were doing something very uncomfortable, very new, very challenging physically, but, um, but because this was completely new, but it's also such a big part of our legacy as a family. And these hunters have been coming for so many years. I'm surprised you guys weren't wearing horses. Well, typically we will do that, but that, that hike wasn't, it wasn't far enough. And it was just like, it was just one quick kind of just off camp kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And you couldn't get a trailer, it would, it would have been more difficult to get the horses there. Fair enough. Well, um, I like that story actually, that's a pretty good one. That's fun. I'm looking forward to our third conversation when we can, uh, talk about the, uh, mountain goat or the black bear or something like that that you guys got down there. Do you guys have bears over there? Yeah. Just black bears probably. Yeah. We had moose on the property this year. Oh wow. I know. That was kind of new. Could I, could I hunt there for moose if I had a permit for that zone? Yeah, I believe so. I believe so. You would let me? I mean, you would, yeah. Not really. You'd have to. Well, we don't sell moose hunt, so I'm not sure. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I could just sneak out there. Park my ambulance camper on your property and just go moose hunting. We would, we would know. I'm sure. You've seen it. We'd see ya. Uh, Becky, I think you're swell. Yeah, Um, and I'm glad you spent a little time here with me again. I appreciate you. Yeah. Look forward to our next conversation. Have a great Thanksgiving. Thank you. You too. Yeah. I know you voted for Trump. Don't even, I don't, I don't say nothing. No comment.