EXPERIENCE 191 | Investing in Relationships and Opportunities with Anthony’s Pizza & Pasta - A Conversation with Andrew Rauch and Garrett Brizendine, President of FR Companies, LTD and CEO of EPIQ Ventures, LLC.

The business journey we’re featuring in today’s episode started when Garrett fell in love with Andrew’s sister (and later married), and took a great leap forward during the Covid pandemic when Garrett became the owner-operator of a standalone Anthony’s Pizza & Pasta location in the Central Park area of Denver.  He was working a full-time job in the automotive industry, raising young children, and worked nights and weekends to quickly prove to be the most innovative, profitable and forward-thinking operator in the network.  

Though Anthony’s had been established 40 years ago, the brand had grown stagnant at 18 locations, and had inefficiencies in its supply chain and marketing functions.  Garrett proposed an acquisition of the franchise to Andrew and his partners at FR Companies, they eventually settled on terms with the franchise owner, and effective in February 2024, EPIQ Ventures, LLC was formed to make the acquisition.  

Much has happened since, including a new partnership to serve Anthony’s Pizza at Red Rocks shows, revenue growth and increasing happiness of franchisees, and a new location on Harmony Road in Fort Collins that was open for only a few days when we had this conversation. 

Today’s conversation reveals wisdom through story on business acquisition and finance, and the cultivation of relationships that tie it all together.  Northern Colorado has already seen a lot from FR Companies, but the best is likely yet to come, and Anthony’s Pizza & Pasta is a cornerstone venture for what lies ahead.  So please enjoy - and learn from - my conversation with Andrew Rauch and Garrett Brizendine.

The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/

💡Learn about LoCo Think Tank

Follow us to see what we're up to:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook

Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Transcript

0:41

Test one. Looks like it's working. The business journey we're featuring in today's episode started when Garrett fell in love with Andrew's sister and later married and took a great leap forward during the COVID pandemic when Garrett became the owner operator of a standalone Anthony's Pizza and Pasta location in the Central Park area of Denver. He was working a full time job in the automotive industry, raising young children and worked nights and weekends to quickly prove to be the most innovative, profitable and forward thinking operator in the network. Though Anthony's had been established 40 years ago, the brand had grown stagnant at 18 locations and had inefficiencies in its supply chain and marketing functions. Garrett proposed an acquisition of the franchise to Andrew and his partners at FR Companies, and they eventually settled on terms with the franchise owner, and effective February 2024, Epic Ventures LLC was formed to make the acquisition. Much has happened since, including a new partnership to serve Anthony's Pizza at Red Rock shows, revenue growth and increasing happiness of franchisees, And a new location on Harmony Road in Fort Collins that was open for only a few days when we had this conversation. Today's conversation reveals wisdom through story on business acquisition and finance and the cultivation of relationships that tie it all together. Northern Colorado has already seen a lot from MFR companies, but the best is likely yet to come. And Anthony's Pizza and Pasta is a cornerstone brand for what lies ahead. So please enjoy, and learn from, my conversation with Andrew Rausch and Garrett Brizendine. Camera's already going. We'll, I'll lead us in here in a moment. So, Andrew Rouse, President of FR Companies, and then Garrett Brizendine, CEO of Epic Ventures, one of FR's subsidiary companies, and the proprietor of Anthony's Pizza and Pasta? Correct. Currently, or currently focused on? Yeah. Correct. Okay. And we'll probably just stay on Anthony's for a while. Yeah. Like, where is it at now? What's it doing? How did you get involved? What are going to be some of the secrets to success? How did you get involved, Garrett? Things like that. Uh, after we linger there for a while, we're going to jump in the respective time machines. Um, and go back to when you were a first grader and you were a first grader. Probably far apart, I'm assuming, but I don't know. And then kind of weave those stories. Um, how old are you and you? Oh, 38. And I'm 36. Okay, so they'll be very timeline similar, uh, regardless, and then, um, and then we'll touch on the Faith Family Politics segments, the Loco Experience, and that'll be a wrap. Cool. Kurt, what's the typical duration? Just out of curiosity. We do as much as two hours. Okay. There it goes. And I don't have any kids, and when I brag about how Seldom I get sick. They're like, yeah, well, you never you're never around children. Like that's not like a superpower you have You're just not in snot machine land all the time Right All right Okay, I'll lead us in here Welcome back to the loco experience podcast my guests today are Andrew Roush and Garrett Brizendine and Andrew is the president of FR companies and And Garrett is the CEO of Epic Ventures, one of their subsidiary companies, and the operator of Anthony's Pizza and Pasta. Thanks for being here, guys. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's a pleasure. Yeah, um Andrew, why don't I start with you? Can you just kind of set the stage of I guess even the relationship between Epic Ventures and FR companies. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe kind of define those just a little bit because they're not very illustrative. Yeah, absolutely. Epic Ventures was formed earlier this year in anticipation of purchasing the Anthony's Pizza and Pasta brand. But I think it all started a couple years ago. And I'll kick it to Garrett to explain exactly how and when we got to Anthony's. And it's a pretty cool story, actually, Garrett, you want to? Yeah, so it kind of, uh, will probably come out in the family detail, uh, later on in the show as well. But early on in, I guess, uh, you know, the pandemic. Looking for a way to diversify kind of our holdings of my full time job, the, their development business with FR. Um, we found the opportunity to purchase a stand alone franchised location of an Anthony's Pizza and Pasta, Central Park, um, kind of on the east side of Denver area. Okay. I was very familiar with the location itself, going to school, kind of in that area, in college. Sort of push pause for just a moment. You were working a full time job unrelated, but you were involved with FR companies. So I was working a full time job unrelated and Andrew is my brother in law. Okay. Yep. Yep. So I was familiar with their, um, business model and how they were venturing into, um, franchising and retail locations a little bit away, um, from their normal development in real estate, commercial and residential. And so at that time I was also looking for an avenue to be able to Kind of diversify my investments and, and look for a way to get out from underneath the full time position of a 40 hour a week job, uh, the automotive industry for 13, 14 years. And, uh, again, early in the, early on in the pandemic, an opportunity kind of arose in restaurants. There weren't too many people looking to get into restaurants. Yeah. A lot of people looking to get rid of their restaurants. A lot of opportunity, I think for investment there. And, uh, we were pretty adamant about finding a longstanding business. That wasn't a start from the ground up, you know, bootstrapping, correct. And we wanted to buy an already outstanding brand. Or an outstanding, I guess, retail location, and then be able to improve upon it. Um, so I got the wild hair that, you know, full time job, um, during a, but during the pandemic, like I need somebody crazy enough to, um, invest with me in the restaurant and I found him and my brother in law and, uh, and it was, uh, you know, it was a leap of faith and something that we went in together about three years ago, three and a half years ago, and that same idea, that same concept about. Identifying a legacy opportunities, longstanding brands to improve upon rather than starting from the ground up was the key to identifying the franchise system, the company, um, the brand itself, the trademark, everything that came with the licensing as a step that I really wanted to take. We found, um, you know, profitability, um, to be positive there, the brand to be positive. And so their, um, business model shifted from You know the real estate into franchising and retail locations and then kind of in an investment, um private equity Um relationship and that's when a couple of years down the line. We'd proven that the brand was successful We've proven that the business model was successful And they were and I We were able to come to an agreement on how we would be able to execute on the acquisition of the overall brand of the franchise of the franchise system as fr with fr as the kind of private equity funding and as the business that we had built in the retail side in an equity stake to provide us Both retail operations and franchise licensing rights, um, of the brand itself. Interesting. Yeah. Really interesting. So did you keep your job for a while while managing this pizza shop? standalone shop for a while, right? Yep. So I kept my job until February when we finalized the acquisition of the parent company. So for the first three years, um, we had. Um, operated that I had and through management and through kind of a proper organizational structure took its toll. Um, there were a lot of, uh, stressful nights of my wife being like, why are you doing this? What's the end game here? Let's just to be, you know, to be pissed off from time to time, but we were, um, You know, we were lucky enough to be able to expand our retail footprint from just that one location to opening up an actual, um, new DMA or, uh, an awarded point kind of downtown, um, by course field at McGregor square, considered a non traditional point did really well in sales had really good, um, you know, um, unit economics for it that made it a successful one. And that allowed us to kind of build out what we understood. To be the successes behind, to be the reasons why this brand, this model phase of growth or whatever, can, uh, And maybe I'll shift it back to you, Andrew. What was the, what, I guess, was the scale of Anthony's Pizza and Pasta? How long had it been around? Uh, some questions like that. Yeah, there were a couple key metrics that were attractive from the investment perspective. But, you know, initially when Garrett and I got together, for me, it was a passion project. It was like, hey, I want to do something with my brother in law. This sounds like a lot of fun. And as we got into it, yeah, there was certainly some stress, but there was also some, we opened up each door and we saw the opportunity behind it. And we realized, yeah, let's keep going with this thing. Cause there's opportunity to do more locations and get involved with the current owner and kind of get in their ear and let them know like, Hey, we're serious about this thing. And when you're ready to sell it. We're right here to buy it from you. Well, and so it took you kind of three years to prove that you were the best operator out of all those franchisee locations. Or maybe two years to prove that, and then one year to figure out what that looked like. I think we could prove it right away. I think we were some of the only serious guys within the group. Just because they hadn't been serious enough in choosing their franchisees, or? I would say more of just a stagnant brand at the time. Okay, fair. Great franchisees, right? Like, really good people running good operations. But just, you know, kind of maybe tired of the current ownership group and wanting to see their business grow and prosper. And we came in with some new technology ideas. New ways of marketing, just kind of picking at it over the last three years. And, you know, Garrett's done a really nice job of, of staying in touch with the owner and saying, Hey, you know, we're standing here whenever you're ready to go. Interesting. I think that, uh, and no guarantees, right? Correct. Like you might find yourself with one pizza location for 25 years and you're working nights and weekends, Garrett. Yep. And that's, uh, I think that the hardest part wasn't. Necessarily convincing or proving to the current ownership at the time that we were the best operators to do this. And I learned this, um, after finalizing the acquisition that it's more about. Proving to the outside world that you're the best one for this investment and that you know how to execute and that you know how to take the necessary steps after the acquisition to make it a profitable and beneficial investment. Cause we knew from the get go we were, but. You know, there's, there's an outside world that they're looking at just the executable factor and not just you against your competitors or your other franchisees. It's you against the rest of the. Industry, if you're the best one to do it. Right. Right. Well, and maybe we can take a step back even. And the way I think I understand FR companies, it's, it's yourself and previously a significant partner at least, or maybe still, but, and then like a block of investors that put capital up for you guys to build houses previously and now other stuff. That's a good way to describe it. A longstanding, a great friend of mine and good business partner for over Um, and I joined forces years ago and we started in a real estate investment that grew to a pretty large home building company. Um, we do some small local developments and continue to build the real estate portfolio till today and uh, ultimately decided to, Venture out and get into franchising and continue to stay optimistic with our investments. Fair enough. And kind of have figured out how to like raise a chunk here. I imagine it's like equity and loan investment vehicles and things like that. Try to get Wealthy people a little better return right and end something more fun than yeah investing in the New York Stock Exchange Absolutely fun and scalable to right right make more impact. Yep. Um, so let's turn the focus back to Anthony's like What's the, what do you guys sell? Like, what's the pizza style? What's the, it's Anthony's Pizza and Pasta, right? Like, what kind of, like, where's your niche in the marketplace? Yeah, so, uh, Anthony's Pizza and Pasta founded in 1984 in downtown Denver as a true New York style pizza in Colorado. True to, uh, the recipe that Henry Mann created coming from New York, brought it with him. We have not changed our recipe in 40 years. We still make the thin crust. You know from scratch daily make our dough in house our sauce in house cut our veggies fresh every day Um, and Sicilian, a couple of different Italian inspired and New York, uh, inspired salad dishes, pasta dishes, heroes, desserts, um, really kind of that stereotypical pizza wings, some good, you know, soul food in the big ziti, um, chicken parmesan, meatball subs. I haven't been down. Is it like? Counter service. Yeah. So it'd be considered kind of a, a fast casual restaurant. So we USR segment and a little bit of a mix of both dine in with, you know, make it, uh, we were not in a Chipotle style, um, thing. So we make everything again, the pasta, the baked ziti, we bake it there and then bring it to the table. We do a large dine in delivery and takeout business. It's bits splits about a third, a third, a third. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's a lot of delivery and takeout then. Yeah, yeah, which is nice because you don't need a whole bunch of real estate costs. Exactly, a whole bunch of real estate costs, yeah. I mean, you want the business to be able to pay for the real estate, uh, when you get that opportunity, but Absolutely, yeah, I think, uh, smaller footprints and second generation commercial spots is, is part of our success. Fair enough. And, um, where's your new location? You said you just opened one a couple weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, so it's down off of, uh, Harmony. At 2550 East Harmony Avenue. Sure. Um, over there by the Chiba Hut and uh, Smashburger. Yeah, yeah, like right, kind of between the Front Range Village and the, the gym over there, 24 Hour Fitness and whatnot. Yeah, exactly. Cool. That's a, probably a good restaurant row kind of space these days. Yeah, we hope so. It's come out the gate. It's you know, it's had a couple of really strong days Yeah, I think you know, although we've had some challenges opening up a new store I think it's gonna be probably a top performing location. Hopefully. Let's talk about Challenges. I like to hear about challenges. Was it with the city, with staffing, with permits? I think on our side the challenges came from Having, you know, a 40 year company that this is unit number 19 and, um, going from scratch, right? We talked about buying a business in which we can improve upon. And I think that this was the first, um, task we took over, uh, after the acquisition of saying, okay, let's see what opening one of these looks like from the build out to the equipment to onboarding of all of the, um, you know, software systems and subscriptions. And so really looking at it from concept to finalization. I would call them, you know, opportunities of our next one. We open and then we open better next time. We open and it keeps going. And we're always going to have those, um, challenges that we run into, whether it's permitting, staffing, you know, product delivery, logistics, all of that. Um, but just re refining it and tuning it in every time is, is key. And how. I'll have the other Anthony's locations found their customers like what are your marketing vessels you mentioned kind of? Changing the way it was being marketed and kind of setting this tone on that Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, some of the new tech we've brought is, um, you know, we've done a lot of, a lot in the digital space, a lot of, obviously we've got a great brand manager, his name's Peter counter. Okay. He's actually had left the business prior and now has come back to join us. Oh, seeing some of the changes we've made. And so he's re energized, which is fantastic to see, you know, um, but we're doing a lot, there's a whole brand fund that, uh, every store contributes to. Okay. And then we determined in house with Peter. and how the spend will play out. Gotcha. Gotcha. And you know, the, um, 40 years, most of the franchisees, I think average around 15 to 20 years in their current, uh, units right now. So they've had kind of a burst of growth and then kind of stagnated for a while. Getting involved with the schools and the local organizations is really a pillar of the Anthony's kind of success too. So yeah, a gift certificate. Oh, I'll know who the, We're talking about having, I would like to actually, um, have like buried in the conversation like we could do it right now. Like first listener to respond to the local experience podcast gets a 10 gift card or a 20 gift card at Anthony's Pizza and Pasta. Yeah. Love it. 25. 25. Absolutely. Sounds like we just did it. Done. Yep. All right. Well, first listener to respond. Once you hear this, uh, look me up. I'll make sure you get a 25 gift card mailed to you. Love it. And, uh. So anyway, well, I don't know if people are listening. That gave you, you only win once every quarter, just so you know, we're not going to be spreading this stuff around all over the place, but, uh, what we might do it every episode, but each individual, but I don't know, we've got to do a strategic thing, you know, it's like one of those ideas I put a pin in. These are the opportunities that we found out too. Right. Next time we're going to do it better. So overcome them though, and got open and, uh, yeah. Here we are. Got open, really successful. Sales are strong out of the gate, but You know, I think going back to the idea that a lot of delivery take out business, we have the opportunity to start smaller, start by taking care of our consumer in front of us first, and then start expanding our area of ability to serve through delivery, through. Third party services. Um, but we just want to make sure that we can handle that growth. Um, kind of stepping on our toes or something else. Uh, how does supply chain work for, uh, what I would call probably a kind of a small franchise, right? You're not like not big enough to get super love from anybody, but too big to not get some kind of love from somebody. This is a really good one, Garrett, to, uh, a little bit upon, you know, how we took the business over and provided a new supplier to the next talk a little bit about how that went. So, um, Anthony's Pizza Head, for the longest time, had their own in house distribution through a company called Stellini. So the previous owner handled all of the distribution and the purchase contracts. They, um, switched over to Greco, which is a subsidiary of Cisco. Oh. About five years ago. And it was probably one of our largest opportunities to improve unit economics from the get go, because there was, uh, contracts in place that were not beneficial to a system of our size, to franchisees, to operate, um, in a beneficial manner. And we were able to negotiate a switch to Shamrock distribution. We talked to us foods, to Cisco, um, they're, let them know they're competing with each other, let them know that we're, you know, and it's not just about who's going to give the best price, right, because there's a lot that goes into it from. Product choices to, uh, logistics, um, from delivery days to delivery times to how much outer and stock they have. Long story short is we were able to finalize a contract with Shamrock Food Distribution that would save our franchisees over, um, about 170, 000 to 250, 000, which equates to about 10 percent of their food costs, which could lower their unit economics again down to 170, 000. a 25 percent COGS number, which on a million dollar AUV scenario can be a significant savings. Um, going back to the opportunities of things we knew we can make immediate impacts for. Yeah. Um, so in, in a scenario like a franchise, licensed rights, we negotiate the contracts upfront, negotiate rebates, cost per case, before you even got a done deal. Yeah. That's what I was starting to wonder. Yeah. We have to make sure that it works right at some offer extremely low prices, no rebate program for advertising, some offer really low prices, but terrible. delivery schedules, vice versa, and navigating each one of those deal points to ensure that we get the most savings for franchisees, but not in lieu of providing them positive customer service, good delivery schedules. Well, and the franchise or a company has to make a buck too. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where that 2 percent royalty comes in. I mean, 2 percent rebate comes in, not only are we lowering our cost of goods to our own franchisees, but, you know, capitalizing on that 2 percent rebate. It's been fantastic. That's going to be fascinating, negotiating a company. package of that complexity, without actually having Yeah, a deal on the deal done. Yeah. Yeah. It was a big win. You know, when you take over a business and you see some opportunities, like I discussed earlier with doors opening up, like this was a huge one, not only the 2 percent rebate, but the hundred thousand dollar fee. Yeah. Um, in order to, you know, there's a lot of things that you have to incur a lot of costs, you incur illegal fees, reviewing all of that. So we got them to cover a lot of that, um, ahead of time by, by cutting us back kind of, uh, A contract signing amount in order to cover a lot of those expenses. One of the things I was pretty adamant apart on with this acquisition was I, I had a very specific number in my mind of, of. Uh, the, um, monetary involvement that we needed. And I wasn't going to go past that. So I've been trying to negotiate these contracts of basically like, you've, you've got to cover this if we're coming to you and it's been successful so far. Uh, Garrett, I have a question. How did you, you said you were working in the automotive industry. Yeah. You seem like really smart about a lot of things. Is that all just happened in the last eight months or knock on the automotive industry, Yeah, I've met a lot of less smart automotive people. Yeah. So I actually, uh, I joined, you know, the, the restaurant space was about three years ago when we bought this and had to say, okay, well now what I, what am I gonna do with it? And so learning a lot of that came from their FRS experience in the QSR world and franchising, us talking and learning a lot of that. But, uh, in the automotive space, I guess you can call it. But I, I joined the, uh, Toyota executive rotation program outta college and kind of did all their. You know, fun traveling jobs forever. So you've been around smart people for know, I've ventured into them. They stay out of the, you know, the They don't get into food service. Yeah, I know. Between food service and automotive, we don't always have, you know, the best reputation for, uh I was a banker, so can't, uh, hurt me. He's a construction guy. Um, so what do you think? Like, are you happy with the way it's shaped up so far? Yep. I'm extremely excited about, uh, what we have to look forward to you and I'm having the most fun I've had in a very long time. And so this is your 19th location. Did you have just. Is it just the two that are house locations then, or did you acquire some other franchisor locations with that? Yeah, we actually adopted the, um, Evans location, we call it the DU location recently. We're working on another acquisition down on 7th and Colorado. Okay. Um, we just opened up Red Rocks earlier this summer, and so we're selling pizza at Red Rocks. Super fun, great opportunity, great brand awareness. And here's a coupon for your next, uh, delivery order. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and only, you know, not only that, but seeing our brand just littered all over the stands of red rocks, it's just, it's, it's really, it's a cool, cool thing to see. So, um, we are doing some really cool things. We signed a contract to hopefully be at the airport. Here in the coming years. Oh, wow. And so, yeah, just kind of look to continue the brand with traditional and non traditional locations anywhere we can. You know, when I think about a small franchise or like this, or a small business, I mean, you're not a huge enterprise, especially the franchise company, like it feels really daunting to approach Red Rocks and say, Hey, why don't you have an Anthony's pizza and pasta there yet? Or DIA? Like, can you maybe talk to that a little bit? I You know, exactly how that came to fruition. You know, we've got a great partner in Joe, uh, Jeremy Betlock, who had a relationship with a gentleman that works at the city and County of Denver that kind of runs and operates. How would you call it Garrett? The amusement side side events and venues. Okay. Yep. So relationship building, you know, that was, that was huge. So network effect is part of it. Exactly. Absolutely. But not only the network, it was. We can, we can show that we can execute and deliver. Yeah, exactly. And they're happy to have us. Again, a little rocky setting that one up as well. However, um, we couldn't be happier with the opportunity. And, uh, we hope to be there for a long time. Next summer you'll be selling pizzas left and right. Yeah, exactly. The Red Rocks location is actually at least By volume, our largest, uh, sales when it's operating. Cause it's only seven months for a 12 month span. It may not have the highest sales volume, but during the months of operation, it's the number one on the per hour. It's probably way over the top, right? Like it's late. It's only in those months when it's open. It's only open 40 or 60 hours. Yeah. I mean, five, four hours, five hours a night. Yeah. Right. And not every night, you know? Yeah. Interesting. What a fascinating model. Yeah. The airport one seems like that could be. Uh, even more opportune, right, with that model and kind of the lack of anything very compelling at the airport that isn't there. Yeah, I think DIA has some really good opportunity in the near future. They're opening up a whole new concourse and, uh, you know, I bet we, we get that opportunity here in the near future. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And what would you like to take it to? I mean, maybe I'll, or either of you, I mean, who's driving this bus? You get to drive the, the Anthony's bus more, and you're kind of still looking for other, you know, Retail restaurant opportunities, honestly. Yeah. I think like I'd fit in more on the business development, bigger picture. Where are we going? Like, what does it look like longterm? And then Garrett's, you know, he's doing a fantastic job of holding it down day to day and leading the company from a strategic standpoint. So maybe that question is yours. Like, uh, is it a Colorado franchise for a while? If somebody from Florida calls and said, Hey, we've got a airport here in Orlando, we'd look at Anthony's pizza and pasta. I mean, you know, we talk about a hundred units. Yeah. I think that's kind of our goal that we set our eyes on. We, that's our near term goal where like Garrett and I want to come up for air and be like, okay, we got 200 units. What does it look for us? What does it look like for us right now? And then where do we want to take it from here? And I think we can see from where we sit today to what that looks like to get to that 100 units. But first and foremost, there's a lot to do in Colorado, right? We could lay down another 20 units and we could, we could do that within the corporate structure. Or we could, you know, really perfect our system and then go out and sell other franchisees. Gotcha. Gotcha. So it's a combination of the two staying opportunistic is key. So you're trying to kind of, you got to kind of build that kit that lets other franchisees know that, Hey, if I. Pull the trigger on this. I'm going to be successful. And part of how you can prove that is by being successful with new locations and things like that. Absolutely. Unit, unit economics are key. And then, you know, Garrett keeps telling everybody once, you know, Garrett and Andrew can actually make a pizza and duplicate it, that's when we're ready to go back out and sell franchises. That's how we know we're ready. And so once your employees can train you guys, once we have the processes in place, right, that's what it comes down to. Scalability is. The reason that we were able to put the money together and that FR saw the benefit was that we all agreed we weren't going to grow until we were ready to grow. We don't know exactly what that looks like yet, but we know we aren't there yet. And so we have the scalability, the training processes, the documentation and, um, the support in house, uh, to do that. Talk to me about, uh, like individual unit economics on sell me on why somebody even. Yeah. After they listened to this episode is going to be like, Hey, I want to put up Anthony's and Greeley. Yeah, absolutely. I think, uh, you know, it all starts where he was discussing a little bit before his second gen spaces and our usable square foot for how much we're able to sell. So affordable rent is a factor. Yeah, affordable rent, uh, a location that's, you know, considered to be white boxed or a little bit more. We can make, um, work with our, with our, um, operation. So. Affordable rent and then our cogs. So a lot of our, um, you know, key index or our key, our KPIs from labor to cogs to our rent numbers all really work. Um, and yeah. Our cog number cogs number in pizza is a, a very competitive number around 25%. And that's because we're able to take something from scratch and make it into a value, flour and water together. You don't have very much labor. Well, we don't have it in the spinner thingy for a while and then flatten it out. And then when we make the pizza, we need a highly skilled individual. I mean, that's what we're saying once we know, but, but the idea is that we're able to take You know, products that inherently aren't that expensive and make them into a valuable product through skilled, um, individuals to work, but not a ton of individuals. So our rent is, um, is low. Comparatively, we try to stay in the 6% Yeah, six to 10. And we're normally on the low side. That's lower than, I mean, 15 is what, uh, Reno from egg and I told me was manageable 15 percent occupancy, but that was for a full service. Sure. Yeah. For full service. When we have 70 percent of our business going out the doors, we can facilitate a smaller footprint. And then our COGS numbers can stay below, you know, 25 percent or so, our cost of goods, and then our labor should be 30 percent and under, you know, All in. And so when you look at all of those things combined, it makes for a really successful model. So again, it's been a 20, 25, 30 percent net profit. If you, yes, if done correctly, yeah, if done correctly and managed correctly, it can, and it also allows for smaller AUVs if needed. We have a 950, 000 average unit volume. Million dollars, our goal, average unit volume. And we're right there. Um, but we do have stores that are successful in their own right. Profitability around 650, 000. Right. Right. And so when you combine all those things. So a break even, you get into a tough economy. The way this model is kind of set up is you can weather that storm kind of, or whatever. And capitalize on it if you have the higher sales. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Well, and once, after you pass break even. Yeah. Gross equals net. Correct. In theory. Yeah. Although it always seems to slip away. Always somehow. Well, that is, that's pretty compelling. I mean, um, and, Why would I choose over Domino's? A very different product. You know, I think, you know, you never want to come on and bash a different product. I think Domino's does a good job with the system of Best 6 pizzas around. Exactly, yeah. They get pizza out to people fast and they've really, you know, focused on the trackability and the timing aspect. That's not us. But you can come get a great New York style slice of pizza from us. And so, you know, it's just different. And probably what? Twice as much? Like what's the delivery? What's your kind of a large pepperoni pizza delivered? You know, it's a, it's a little bit more convoluted than that because you know, the 6 pizza, you know, 12, 14. Yeah, I don't, let's ignore Domino's, but a big nice pizza delivered for me and two of my friends, or three. Our 18 inch pizza, New York style cheese pizza is 21. 75. Okay. Pepperonis on it for 25. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that, that feeds around four people, a family of four, two large slices, and I think going back to the why us is that. There's a lot that goes into, you know, startup costs, what, what space you have to build out and then what model you have from a royalty standpoint and all of that. So there's different royalty, um, amounts 4 percent to 8 There's startup costs that are different. And ultimately if you look at the QSR or restaurant industry, that 10 to 15%, if you can make that you're, you're doing really well. So whether or not you're selling 2 million at a dominoes, Or a million with us, you're looking at the unit and economics that tend to work out to 10%. So it's about what you want to be involved in. It's about what you want to be doing on a day to day basis. Having the dining opportunity is significant and, and just a, a better product ultimately, one of the things I was thinking about with that, uh, second generation locations, as you phrased it is, you know, Because I lived in Colorado Springs, and that's part of why I think of it this way, because Colorado Springs just kind of grew out in bands over time. But one of the things about the second generation locations, or even of your Harmony location now, is You know, that was on the edge of town when that area was built, which isn't ideal for delivery or carryout. You want to be surrounded by homes, you know, and that's kind of what a lot of those second generations are. This grown out, but the other people are still there. Exactly. Yeah. We're looking for rooftops. Absolutely. And it, and it doesn't quite have to be main on main. Right. It doesn't have to be the prettiest real estate. Right. Right. Most of our business, like you said, is leaving, heading out the door. And, uh, yeah, it can certainly be second gen for sure. Yeah. I think that today's, uh, you know, digital storefront, we are available to a significant amount more customers than it used to be. You had to drive by and see it. Let's go there. And so. While it's not main on main, we're in front of everybody's eyes online. If we do it right, if we market correctly, if we're in the right places, we're getting just as many eyeballs as somebody that's in grade a real estate. Right. Well, and every time the pizza is just, you know, it's twice as much as it would have been from dominoes, but it's more than twice as good, you know? Right. And cause cause 25 bucks still isn't very much. Right. We're still talking about pizza. We're talking about a steak dinner. Yeah. Well, in Cheap Ahood, Yeah, 16 mark, you know, you know, we try to talk about for one sub, you know, people don't want to hear though, you know, pizza is still considered a, uh, a cheap buy, I think, and having even two subs for 33 versus one large 18 inch pizza for 25 bucks, it, it doesn't, it's not really seen that way. And so we're trying to create the value conversation around. It doesn't seem like a lot until you see that we bought flour. And we have water every day, and we're making it into pizza. Yeah, we slice the vegetables. Not just a pass through pizza thing, frozen, and then to you. We're making it from scratch. Significantly different thing. Yeah. Um, what is the, uh, like the best thing about pizza? I think if you look at our brand, as Anthony's, I think we're really leaning into being able to see people throw the dough. The romance of somebody throwing pizza dough in the air and, and making it from scratch, you know, that's something we're looking at leaning into. How do we systematize that, but also, you know, keep that as a staple for us. And I think for me, that's a really cool thing to come into the store and see. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree that that made in house fresh daily. And then what's really cool about pizza to me is While inherently it's not, uh, just how Americana it is. Totally. It's, it's along there with burgers and fries, right? French fries and pizza seem to be very Americana, even though they're Well, and even though, like, pizza is Italian or whatever, margarita, but that was like, like, that was the thing. Like, here you want a margarita pizza or you want nothing? Like, and we're throwing pineapples on there, even though that's freaking disgusting, you know, we're doing just about whatever, you know, peanut butter stuffed jalapeno peppers on top of your pizza, I mean, it kind of embraces that diversity and you can make a pizza almost, you could almost Make a pizza of every international style. Absolutely. Like you could make a Brazilian pizza. Yeah. Right, you could make a Mexican pizza. You could make a Swedish pizza. Yeah, absolutely. Where I come from in North Dakota, they have sauerkraut and German sausage on pizzas. Oh, geez. All the time. Yeah, no, it's normal there. I'm gonna take notes on that one. With a horseradish white sauce. Yeah. Yeah, the German pizza. Yeah. You can take that if you want to. Yeah. Specialty. German immigrant. Specialty. We could name it the Kurt. Well. I'd be honored, but, uh, um. What else, uh, business wise, is there some other things about Anthony's that we should talk more about? Yeah, you know, I think we're having a lot of fun with this right now and I think, you know, it's a really fun path that we're on. It's super scalable and, um, You like learning, don't you? I do. Yeah. I can tell. Yep. So yeah, I mean we're celebrating 40 years this year. I don't know if when you get down to the Harmony You'll see a pair of skis that we did with Icelandic. Okay partnership this year to give away a bunch of skis at our restaurants Oh cool. Going back to the idea that It's made it 40 years. It's a longstanding brand in Colorado, and we're just unbelievably excited to get fresh eyes on it, to get a fresh perspective, keep its authenticity in the Colorado marketplace, the brand that it is, but see how we can just improve upon it a little bit, iterate on it and get it to a more scalable, more valuable, um, larger brand ultimately. And Andrew on, on the. perspective, you said you're doing a few building projects and things like that, but low, low volume on the real estate side. Are you actively looking for more restaurants or other opportunities? Yeah. If you've been following the real estate market locally, obviously like pricing's gone crazy, right? Opportunities for investment are, are scattered. And so that either takes you outside of Northern Colorado. For opportunities, or you're looking at some bigger projects. And right now things just aren't penciling like they used to for us. But, uh, but you'd open to getting back. Absolutely. Yeah. And we certainly do. We've got a number of projects still on the board and so it's been fun. That'll, that'll continue to be a staple within our business. Well, that's the nice thing about real estate. Like the, the secret to success in restaurants is. More, uh, elusive a little bit with real estate. A lot of it's just numbers. It's math, you know, how can I, how fast can I sell this? How much, how much interest on the loan? And it's cyclical, right? Like there's, there's been a lot of opportunity here over the last decade. A lot of people making really good wealth and accumulating units and, uh, Ultimately, we'll have to see the market cycle a little bit around here for a good investment opportunity to come back. Well, we'll, uh, we'll dip into that part of the journey, but on the way back through actually, because, uh, after we take a short break here, we're going to jump in the time machine and go back to second grade for both of you. Oh, okay. That should be fine. Great. Here we go. And we're back. And we're jumping in the time machine. Ready? Um, second grade. You're older, Andrew? A little bit, yep. Uh, where were you in second grade? Yeah, Bergen Elementary, Evergreen, Colorado. Okay. Yeah, fantastic place to be from. Bergman? Bergin. Bergin. Okay. Bergin Elementary. Okay. Alright. Um, and what were you, what were you up to there? Like your family moved there? Lived there? Yeah. Yeah, that's where I grew up. Um, family's still there. Okay. And, uh, yeah, nice little mountain community west of Denver there. And, uh, yeah, I'd imagine second grade, playing a lot of sports, little league, big time. Yeah. Brothers, sisters? Yeah, I've got two sisters. Okay. So I've got a younger sister named Taylor, Garrett's wife. Yep. And then older sister. Hey, baby. Hello. Older sister named Jamie, and Jamie's about two years older than I am. And then Younger sister is, uh, about eight years younger than me. Oh, wow. So, uh, yeah, that's why you were teasing him about robbing the cradle. I'm six years older than my wife. Uh, guarantees. She's going to be around to take care of me when I get old. That's what I'm hoping for. She's already, she's already having to get around. And what was your, was your dad an entrepreneur? Was he, yeah, family has always been entrepreneurial. You know, my grandfather owned an insurance business and then my other grandfather owned a boxing company. And, uh, not boxing, like, boxing people's stuff up and sending it somewhere or something. Exactly, yep. Wood crates, ship them on rail car. Okay. Um, interesting business that he had. You know, you can call it supply chain management now. Right, different kind, but yeah. Yeah, sure. And, uh, yeah, my father owns an excavation business. Okay. Up in Evergreen. And, like, for residential basements? Yeah, residential, like commercial. Okay, cool. He's been, uh, 45 years up in, uh, up in the mountains there with that business, and, uh So you grew up in business and in construction a little bit? Correct. Yep, absolutely. Alright, Garrett, you're in the hot seat. Yeah, second grade, back in, uh, Santa Monica, California. Uh, born and raised. Okay. Until I moved out here for college, but Yeah. Just, you know, doing the normal, uh, I guess, what would that be? Elementary school? Yeah, yeah. About there, so. What was the, what was the family setting? I have a, uh, older brother named David who's in Utah now. Okay. Also kind of in, uh, land and real estate, um, acquisitions and selling and stuff. And then my mom is still out in Southern California. Okay. And my dad's in Florida now, so. They went opposite directions, make holidays while you were uh, probably about the right same time. I don't know how I will, how old you are in second grade, like eight or something. Yeah. So I think they split when I was nine or 10. Okay. So more time that way then. They didn't move across country at that time. Um, just kind of recently, uh, a couple of years. Brother's two years older. So he'd be, uh, Andrew's age. Okay. And, uh, like not to get personal, but like, what was that like when your parents split? You know, I, God, you guys were nine and 11 or ish. Yeah. I think, uh, I don't know about the exact psychological differences in this situation, but there was obviously guys in behind the curtain. Well, you know, they, it's not that they didn't, but. There's obviously a difference in, uh, in experience, even between two years. Right. So, um, at, at nine or 10, maybe I was shielded from it. Maybe I didn't understand more. Maybe that's just my personality. Um, but it, it was noticeable, obviously it impacted us. There was some significantly harder times and then you'd hope for, but it wasn't something that, that to me, at least in longer timeframes, um, felt defining part of my life, right? Well, it's a different generation. My dad was a product of a divorced family and his mom and dad got divorced when they were, when he was like 12, you know, and kind of like 10 through 12. And it like, dad became the man of the house at 13, basically, and it colored his whole life after that. Well, it's also, I guess, Maybe only just my experience only speaking from experience, but we know, I think from statistics that divorced households are part of the large, you know, is kind of the norm in the United States a lot of the time, especially 20 years ago. And you know, married California is a leading state in that kind of stuff. Exactly. So, It never was something that was actually out of the complete norm for me. It wasn't great. I love it. Well, and you're, whatever, 15 years younger than me almost, so our generations are that much different from each other's experience. Yep. Are your folks still together? They are. Yeah. And, uh, lucky enough to have my parents still together. They're both, you know, fantastic people. Doesn't mean that we don't go through our own challenges and set our problems too, but love them to death and, uh, really great role models. Well, let's, uh, let's talk about kind of that season shifting, growing into a, a, a you know, say middle school, high school. Uh, you were, I played pickleball with you, Andrew, and you kind of kicked my ass. So I'm suspecting you were athletic early. I was, yeah, I was lucky enough to play every sport growing up. And, uh, you know, I gravitated towards football and then obviously you saw me play pickleball. I was a tennis player and, uh, yeah, I just loved being active growing up. Football, like wide receiver? Um, football, baseball, track and field. Honestly, I was doing everything. Swim team. Wow. It was, yeah. Anything you excelled at? You know, baseball, specifically, I would say I played tennis well at the time, and uh, And how were your grades? You know, the grades growing up weren't great. Okay. Not great. And why? I was focused on, uh, chasing girls and sports. I see, I see. Um, you know, staying, staying on the, uh, On the list, just a, just a play ball was enough. Yeah, just get good enough grades so that you can keep playing. Sure, sure, sure. All right. Yeah. Uh, contrast with your journey, Eric Garrett. Pretty much, uh, word for word. Actually, no contrast, no contrast can be heard out of me. I leaned into sports pretty heavy in middle school and high school. What were your sports? I was, uh, football and coming from California was volleyball. Um, grades hindered or kept me back from exploring really any strong opportunity of playing at another level, except for, um, I did come to Colorado specifically to play volleyball. Oh, okay. At Johnson and Wales University in Denver. Okay. Um, mainly because I'd wanted to come to Colorado, I guess. And it was the only school that looked at my grade and said, yeah, come on. He might make it. Come on over here. Just enough to keep on the roster but nothing exciting. All right. All right. And uh, what was the college? You know, like my opportunities were limited coming out of high school I was a great athlete, but yeah similar path not not a ton of opportunity for the next what are we talking to GPA sir? By the way, two point zero one with a change my senior year To get me to a two point. You're a one point nine seven or something. One point nine nine Mr. Meyer, shout out. Gave me a bump in grade. You got him into, into his college of what was it again? Uh, Johnson and Wales. Johnson and Wales. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I was scraping right there at the 2. 0 level, but I, you know, I tested well, which helped out. Unfortunately, I, you know, my, like I said, my opportunities were limited. And so, you know, went to junior college and that's when I really decided to grow up and, uh, you know, pulled straight A's and then transferred and I got Pretty much anywhere I wanted to go from there. Nice, nice. And so, pivotal, pivotal moment in my life. Yeah, was there, was there like a, uh, event or anything that led you to straighten out and buck up? Or just the embarrassment of barely getting into college? Yeah, that, you know, underperforming is a real thing. You know, reality for some people, you know, not living up to your full potential, I think hit me in the face. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you can either become a drug addict or you can start kicking ass. Right. Kind of. I mean, that's kind of a lot of times what happens to underperformers. You can turn it around or you can just wallow in sorrow. Yeah. I found a, you know, same again, kind of same path of Dean's List in college, A's and B's in college. And I actually attributed it to my lack of ability to go home and do questions one through 40 odds in math because the teacher told me I had to or go back and try to answer questions on something I did not care about on a daily basis. I tested very well. I would not do the homework. And in college, the dynamic shifted to find something you enjoy talking about studying, doing, and then, and then do it and come back to us. And I really gravitated towards that, which I found to also be. You know, uh, uh, something that benefits you in business is you're working towards a goal. You're working on something you're passionate about. You're not just giving tasks or doing tasks on a daily basis because. Yeah. Give me a list of 10 things to do and it's none of your business why I want you to do them. And yeah, I quit. I'm out. Yep. Yep. Fair enough. So you also turned it around and got good grades and stuff. And like, When did you meet his sister? Uh, we actually met at the Well, it wasn't for a while. Well, did you warn her about California guys? I think everybody in Colorado It was too late by then. It was long too late by then, but uh, you know, we met about seven, eight years ago now, and we actually met all at the same time at a camping trip in Nebraska on Lake McConaughey. Okay. How did that, like friends of friends, everybody had a big 20 person camp out. If I could interject on this one, I think, uh, you know, Garrett was at the, was at the, uh, camping trip and, uh, you know, he got bit in the face by a dog. Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah. And still have a scar. Not your dog, I guess. No, not mine. But you know, I was kind of blown away. I was like, wait, you're dating the guy that let himself get bit in the face. Yeah. For a while there, Andrew was adamant about like, what do you get? Who, what you keep bringing him around? Why? Like this hasn't worked out yet and then, you know, yada, yada, yada. Best thing he did. He's not all right. All right. Bit in the face. Uh, it was, uh, it was a long test and then we met Taylor and I started talking to kind of a couple of months after that. And then Andrew found out at red rock show, I think. Nice. Nice. Well, and I, uh, I like the kind of people that in their late 20s will gather in a large clump and get rowdy enough at McConaughey to have dogfights, fightings, and stuff like that, you know? Cause I think what I understand is McConaughey's like, When you want to be far enough away from Colorado that your Colorado friends don't see what you're doing? I don't maybe I'm wrong about that. I mean, it's a dry lake Is it dry now? We haven't we don't drink there. Oh, is it? No. No, it is a dry lake. No Oh, really? That wasn't stopping. Yeah, I was like, I think I heard about like Jake Plummer going out there and partying and stuff like that I'm pretty sure it's like more like Detroit lakes than it is like a lot of places. It's like Burning Man light Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, exactly. Um, so I guess, look, talk to me about, uh, let's stay on you, Garrett, for a minute, so you turn your stuff around graduate and then like, what's, what's it, you know, man, what did you find that you really wanted to study and get good grades? So I actually, uh, I think it was more about. You know some of the teachers there studying business for at a culinary school. Um, so I I kind of gravitated towards marketing and really enjoyed just the the general this was a culinary school Yeah, it was it's mainly a culinary school. Okay that has a small business program. Okay. Okay, and again Why they were like, yeah, come on, um, we need somebody. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I think it was just a matter of being in sports, finding a smaller kind of school that I could learn the marketing and the general business applications and all of that. And. Um, well, I had some really good teachers there, uh, Dr. Moulton, who I really gravitated towards. Well, it's probably almost a smaller setting for you in college than it was in high school. It was very close. You could, you could kind of lose yourself in high school. Yep. Yeah, it was very close to being a really good introduction to a university without, you know, I think if I would have gotten thrown into the true university life, I would not have been able to make that transition because I was on that line of like, uh, you know, if it was a fraternity, if it was, you know, any big sports program, it was kind of that I was forced into, In the best way possible, like playing a sport that nobody really cared about in Colorado, but had to put as much effort into it, um, as required. And then also having a small school setting that allowed me to kind of prosper with the personal relationships and stuff. And did you, where did you go for your second two? You said, yeah, I ended up going to Colorado state here and graduated with a business degree in real estate. And then I also picked up another degree in construction management. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the rest is history with that. And then, like, where did you start your career, Andrew? Yeah, I just, uh, came out in 2009 as a struggling, uh, real estate broker. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, Yeah. Great real estate economy at that time. It was, it was fantastic and, uh, I was lucky enough to have some really good mentors. That showed me the side of real estate investing, which I really gravitated towards, did a lot of fix and flips. Cause there was a lot of market opportunities at that time. There was. Tons of them. Absolutely. Had a couple of really good partners at the time and, uh, learned a lot at that time. Were you partnered with Devin early on? Not, no. So I started a career by myself. Um, Marcus Valdez, still here in Fort Collins. Marcus and I did a couple of deals together and then Dave Lund, Greg and Mike Vogel. Those guys were great mentors for me. Learned a lot from those guys and was able to, to partner with them on a few deals and kind of pick up the business. And then, you know, I met Devin, he, you know, we went to college together, but we didn't really know each other in college and, uh, yeah, met after college, kind of told him what I was up to. He was also a struggling real estate agent at the time. You know, I said, Hey, there's some opportunity to, to do some renovations and fix and flips and, and make a little money this way while we're, you know, trying to figure out our career path. Right, right. And he's like, yeah, I think we can line up some, some capital and, and, and make this a go. And, uh, 15 years later, here we sit with, you know, over 90 units, commercial and residential. Wow. Have built over 350 houses in our career. So. And that was like, I mean, in 2009 through 2012, like, Being able to get to capital was the biggest thing in some ways, right? Like the conventional banking stuff had dried up, you know, you couldn't buy 17 rental properties. Yeah, yeah, there's a side hustle anymore. No, no, it couldn't and it was still difficult back then You know, we had a lot of a lot of mezzanine debt that would sign as a guarantor For a period of time you got two years to figure it out Yeah, a lot of six months or three months exactly Yep So we had a lot of faith in the you know Our surrounding people that were you know saw what we were doing and saw that we could execute and yeah, cool What an interesting thing. Um, and then, Garrett, you've got your business culinary degree. Yep, pretty much. Are you a pretty good cook? Uh, no. I never took one cooking class while I was there. Um, probably should have. Wouldn't hurt ya. Nope, nope. There were wine tasting kind of specialty classes that I dabbled in. That was a class? Um, apparently, you know, the, you're just supposed to taste the wine and never goes over that well, but I did graduate with a marketing degree and then a secondary minor in just, um, you know, general business administration. And straight away I, I joined up for, or got hired into the Toyota, uh, management rotational program based out of, uh, California and started. And how did you like just came across the newswire? So I look in, I think my parents were still a little concerned about what was next. And there was a family friend who was a, um, individual at Toyota for 25 years. I actually. Went to find a internship because I had to do an internship to complete my college degree and I waited till after senior year So I went to go ask about getting an internship and he said I don't I do we don't do internships here Especially during 2009 2010. He's like, but I think you'd be a strong candidate for our executive rotational program Do you want to go down and teach talk to HR about that? I was like sure Um, and then you go back to the college and say, Hey, if I get into this program, does that count as an internship? Yep. And, uh, they, uh, said, yeah, well, we'd love to interview you and went six months interviewing. Everything was on hold because of the 2009, um, downturn and pretty much immediately after, um, summer moved out to start at the. Customer experience center. 4331 customer experience for Toyota for about six months. Answered phone calls of pissed off people. And then you just kind of rotate through every possible program. Yeah. That was kind of my experience. I got into a banking training program as well. And it was like, You're going to be a teller for a week. You're going to be a new accounts person for a week. You're going to do this. You're going to do that. Yeah. So I've done everything from service and parts to a district sales manager to customer attention and all of it. Interesting. And are you a fan of Toyota? Huge fan of Toyota. Very adamant about, you know, not only the product, but I've seen firsthand from making the decisions about. Customer satisfaction about what they do to take care of their customer. They try, customers try and back their brand up and so I'm, I'm a pretty big ag, a big advocate of both Toyota and Lexus. Yeah. From the reliability to, if that doesn't work out, what they'll do for you after the fact. I really want a Lexus, uh, GX four 70, like old school, maybe, I don't know, 2005 or something like that, that I can, the new gxs are nice too though. Well, I'm sure they are, but I don't have$108,000 or whatever. They came out with a new, uh, kind of squared off body style, but it's really nice. I dig it. I dig it. So that was interesting. Did you, were you, like, you were kind of marked for a long termer? I was. In that kind of Toyota America kind of thing, right? Yeah, they, uh, we, they were based out of Southern California. It was kind of all signs point to California if you make it through the program. It's a solid 15 years out in the field. Um, and so I was placed in Kansas City, um, for about a year and a half. And then was able to transition into the Denver region. And as I progressed through the, the, you know, levels and made it to the regional management position in the office. They were like, Hey, next stop is we've relocated our office to Texas field. Yeah. So you're going to Texas. You get to get a job in Texas. No, I'm not. Um, and they're like, well, you have to, if you want to move up, you go to Texas. It was like, so I left, I left Toyota and found a, uh, retail automotive company here locally out of New Jersey. Um, that, uh, that has, Automotive dealerships. Yeah. I spent about four years with them. Okay. Um, kind of sharing some of the, the smart things you learned from Toyota and customer service and everything else with this. It wasn't John Elway or nothing. No, it was a company called Holman out of New Jersey. They have, uh, all the CUNY brand stores down in central Denver. And they have now, I think something like 60 dealerships nationwide. So there are a top 10 automotive companies. So those things, that experience really prepared you potentially for some adventure like this too. Yeah. Yep. I'm just kind of thinking on your feet and finding a way out for this part. Um, and Andrew, you're like, you kind of, once FR tilted up and, you know, you kind of moved from fix and flips, uh, to some development projects. Yeah. Parlayed that into some new construction and, uh, we had an investor do some lot banking for us. Oh, okay. And so we decided to, you know, new construction going vertical with some houses. Yeah. That was our next block of. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, I like it. Yeah, and uh, that went well for a long period of time. We had some communities do really well, some communities do not so great. Um, we learned a ton in between. You know, had a lot of super tenants. Yeah, Old Town North was an interesting thing in that it, it, it came out of the gates and kind of, Fell on its face for a while is market timing. I financed the What's that on the river rooftops in the river from John Prouty like in 2009 as a banker, so I know slow absorption But then it really caught fire and was just going gangbusters. When was that like 13 14? Yeah 13 we Yeah, we stuck a shovel in the ground in 2013 and, uh, had a couple really cool roof deck models that were super popular. Oh, so you bought some stuff under distress up there. It was already developed? No, no, so we actually took some new, fresh designs. Okay, okay. Yeah, and, um, yeah, it just went vertical. I think we built roughly 53 houses in that community. Okay. So Yeah, cool. Yeah. Um Any big learning lessons from, uh, those seasons? Like if, if you were going to say like things that you learned in real estate that even apply to pizza. You know, I think what crosses over is, is dealing with people, being able to lead people effectively, getting them to rally behind you with, with your vision, I think that translates from industry to industry, you can take that skillset with you. What you're doing in business isn't as important as, is how you're doing it and how you're leading. And I say, you know, we've had the good fortune of having a lot of good employees down the line of us over the years, some much older. And that can get a little tricky, some younger, but ultimately being able to deal with people in a way that's effective for you and your company, I think is important. I dig that. Uh, one of the phrases I share a lot at, uh, Loco here is, uh, we look for the win, win, win, win, but we'll settle for the win, win, win if necessary. You know, and it kind of goes to that, like, especially when you're dealing with complex transactions, real estate, like you can't. Really make anybody do anything sure it's kind of around building Everybody wins a little bit kind of a circumstance even with your acquisition of Anthony's right. It was kind of a Stagnated franchise or whatever. I'm guessing it. You know, there were some of the franchisees were Annoyed that more cool stuff. It wasn't happening or whatever, but but helping those sellers Understand that hey if we take this path, we got the a route or the B route if we take the B route You It might be more fun for everybody. Right. Right. And I think that's where we sit today with Anthony's. I would classify this as a a four win. Yeah. Yeah. Win, win, win, win situation right now as it sits. And that's inherent in, uh, franchising, I think, because. Oh, so hard to balance. Yeah. They're, they're all their own, um, individual independently run businesses. And while you have guidelines and, and, you know, processes and procedures in place, you can't force anybody to do anything. And so it's about finding the common ground of success and making sure that we all can move forward and not just trying to say, you have to do this. Yeah. It's about the why. If you do this. Then more of this will happen, you know, some of that messaging, like, yeah, just encouraging people to do the things that are right, you know, showing, showing them why building the watch, building the watch. Yeah, we had a lot of apprehensive franchisees. Initially, Garrett's done a really nice job of showing people what we're going to do and then backing it up by giving them actual content. There's some action steps on the way up. And we've, we've certainly earned their trust with even within a short six month period. What a fun thing. Um, I like it. Uh, what else? I guess, uh, timeline wise, I feel like we've almost caught back up today, so we can go into the controversial segments if you'd like. Uh, let's actually do one more thing. Yeah. Um, if you were going to say about Andrew, what's his secret sauce? Like what's his special sauce when it comes to dealing with people in business and whatever that looks like? Yeah. I think that, uh, going back to the idea of how he interacts with individuals. Him and I obviously being family and friends, you know, there's been some tough decisions. There's been some tough things where we disagree. There's been some tough things where we may not see eye to eye, but the process in working through that and trying to, while he may not actually Care about both sides. You can feel that he's working through it with you. He's trying to figure out the best path forward. And it's not to be honest, you know, there's a structure in every company and at points, Andrew Devin, anybody could say, well, we're the largest shareholder do this because we said so, but we get to have that common. Discussion and lead each other towards a direction. And it may shift back and forth, not being stubborn in your, in his own decision, but either trying to help me come to the understanding of why we should go a direction or being open to adapting if needed. So that's, uh, I think, I think actually it was a talk to the Rotary Club, uh, that I gave back during the COVID nation stuff and lockdowns and whatnot. And after we had come back, but I, I talked about, The force of persuasion versus the force of force. Yeah. Uh, and how the force of persuasion is always way better. Uh, so that sounds like maybe a, Tip toward the, uh, his capability as a persuader and an empathetic, or at least a sympathetic. And then also being able to adapt if, if, you know, we're, we're wrong. But if I'm not wrong, a good amount, then I'm not pushing the boundaries enough and he has that same mentality is while I might think a certain way, it doesn't mean that I won't immediately say, well, you, I see your side of things, not being too steadfast in just an opinion, but being confident in your opinion, but also willing to. Adopt where needed and change if it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I did that. Yeah Same question back, but only in terms as relates to connecting with your sister He did say at one time, you know, just don't let it go down in flames because we're gonna stay friends Really awkward No, what I mean you didn't have to I guess you did. I mean, Garrett kind of brought this concept to you and said, Hey, will you help me make this amazing in some respects? Yeah. Yeah, he did. And he's done a really nice job of like staying at it, right? Like this opportunity has been kind of on our doorstep for the last couple of years, but we weren't quite ready to execute on it. We didn't know what we didn't know at the time. And now we do. And Garrett's definitely the right person to lead it. And once you have that confidence, you know what you're doing, and you've got a really good plan. Yeah. The money comes behind that pretty quick. You know, it's, it's not only, it's a bet on Garrett that I made three, four years ago now, it's a, it's an even larger bet that we're putting company and a lot of different investors behind it now. And it's becoming real for us. It's, it's been a ton of fun. I dig it. I think that was a, actually a huge thing that he. Help me learn was after we purchased the original one, I went right to this deal. I had a, I had the idea behind me. I wanted to do it. And I brought it to one person first or two people, him and Devin. And they respectfully said no. Right. And I was like, all right, well, they don't want this. They're they're stupid. But I went to 20 other banks, private equity groups, investors. And through that process, I got a lot of no's, you know, two dozen no's. And then eventually when, when I had kind of had all my ducks in a row, we had enough time figuring out the unit economics, what was needing to be improved upon. And it worked. He said, he said that exact process of like, it wasn't the deal, you know, the deal maybe worked or maybe didn't, but they weren't even really ready to look at the deal because I was the one. There's a big homework assignment here for us. And I, at the time, I wouldn't have understood that, but I do later on. So you're right. I don't know if it would have been. Well, and even building allegiance within these other franchisees and like all of that, it's, you can't, you can't make people do stuff. Yeah. You can spreadsheet anything, but ultimately you're placing a bet on that. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, closing segments. Faith, family, politics in any order. Uh, where, what do you want to start? Well, I think, you know, I think we could touch on the family element, obviously. Sure. Yeah. Family now. Brother, that's been a huge, it's been a huge pleasure. We've been able to separate our business and our family life and. That's been important to us. You know, when we got into this, we said, Hey, look, this is going to be a fun business venture, but it's not going to affect you. Just don't talk business. When you're, we talk business all the time because we, because we love it. Right. Like it's our business and we want to run at this thing as fast as possible, but we've got a lot of, a lot of commonality with that. So it's not that we like separate the two. It's just, we're able to. Take the emotion out of it and enjoy. If this thing goes down in flames, you guys are still going to be brothers. We actually promised each other that first investment in the retail space, we promised each other that we will shut the doors and basically light that cash on fire that we had to invest in the beginning before. This sours us on each other. And we were willing to do that at that time, a significant amount of cash invested. And we said, we'll burn it before this goes South. And to the point about separating it, we love talking about it. We love chatting about it, but we also go, you know, weekends without even mentioning it. And there's probably some weekends or something where on Friday, we were just like, I disagree with you. I disagree with you. And then the weekend, I don't even remember about that. Cause this is family time. This is different. So on Monday, I might be like, Oh, by the way, you know, it's, it's separating it. It's not making them. Exclusive of each other. It's bringing emotion out of it. Yeah, so I'm guessing that right now you're I mean You just opened a location a couple weeks ago Gary You're probably rocking 60 hour weeks or something like that or more than 40 Anyway, you know, I think I was I was walk I was rocking probably 85 hour weeks before the acquisition with the multiple retail locations in a full time job Yeah, while I I am a huge proponent of work life balance. I also believe that if You You know, I'm, I'm constantly kind of on, I'm kind of, I'm kind of always on thinking, working. And, and doesn't mean that I'm not making the necessary time for my family, for my health, for my own mental awareness, but it's weird that I can't really count in hours, because if it's behind my desk, it might only be, you know, eight hours a day, but if it's when I'm working, it could be 20 hours a day. It varies so much between what is work and what is not when you're kind of making things. Sometimes I'm working while I'm playing pickleball. Exactly. Yeah. You know. Totally. In between matches. Yeah. I think with, uh, Garrett, we're working on boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. I have a tendency to be up at 4 a. m. just ripping across email, texting. I'm like, why don't you have your phone on silent? That's why you have, I should be able to text you yours. You get it when you wake up. Yeah. What are you doing? He's like, you woke me up again. Yeah. Why? Put it on silent. Just get it when you get up, I'm texting you now. Cause I want to text like, I don't know what you mean. Our poor people just see that come across and just, you know, I have to, I have to, yeah, tread that very lightly because I do, I am aware of that. So you're on fire for this right now. Like this is still infecting your. Yeah. Cause I'm passionate about, I do believe, and I say this a lot that, um, this acquisition and the possibilities of this. are, could be life, life changing family, changing dynamics. And every one of your existing franchisees could have a whole different lifestyle five years from now, if you're successful. Yep. And our, our own employees from the ground level, our own families and all of that. And so I'm passionate about it kind of being a portion of my life, not separating out like, Oh, you know, play time and work time while I make mental. necessary silos for those. Um, it has been a thing that we've been working on, especially because for the first six months, I was just happy. I got someone to take another chance on me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just ripping stuff from 3 a. m. Well, and it's so interesting to me, like, I don't know how much you were making that Toyota, but I'm guessing it wasn't nicely into six figure territory and had the opportunity to grow if you'd moved to Texas or California. You know, that's, uh, something I'm pretty passionate about as well, is that anytime I've made a career change, it's never been in a forward, immediately. And every time it works out because I'm, I'm looking for opportunity and I'm looking for, um, advancement in the longterm. I'm not looking for an immediate monetary gain. I dig it. Yeah, I dig it. Um, let's go back to you, Andrew. We haven't talked about your family much. We talked about your sister, but, um, I met your wife and her name is. Yeah, Rebecca. Rebecca. And where did you find her along this journey? Yeah, we actually went to high school together. Oh, okay. High school sweethearts? Or just You could call it that. High school acquaintances? No, we got together late in high school there and uh, I would say it got serious in college. Okay. Yep. And at CSU then, too. She's a, she's a Ram also. She's a Ram also. And what was it, uh Like, you were, you were in what high school? Rocky? Uh, Evergreen. Evergreen. Oh, so you were down there. Okay, so you brought her, imported her up from, from Denver Metro. What, what was it about you that she found most interesting, do you suspect, way back when? Oh, boy. Cause you were like a, Below average student, probably not that good looking. Oh, you were saying he's pretty. You are pretty for a man. Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, that's the moneymaker. No, I don't, you know, probably a better question for her, but, uh, I think what I was attracted to her was, you know, the fact that she's intelligent and, um, you know, she's a, she's a doctor of physical therapy. Uh, she's beautiful, and, uh, yeah, it was just, you know, love at first sight. She's very glowy, if that's a word. Like, she radiates a fair bit. She does, yeah. In a room, or in a circumstance, or whatever. Super positive human being. Yeah, yeah, that. And, uh, you know, I'm lucky enough to have her for this long. It's been fantastic. Okay. So we've got two beautiful little daughters, uh, Charlie and Evie. Okay. How old are they? Charlie's five, and Evie is three. Are you comfortable with the one word description of each child? Oh, wow. I don't know if I told you about this part. It's kind of a surprise, but yeah, if you had to put it to one word. Yeah, Charlie, I would say creative. Okay. Evie, I would say tough. And is this a boy and a girl, Charlie? I'm sorry, they're both girls. Both girls? Okay. Yep. Um So Charlie Did you spell Charlie, like, with a Y then? It's uh, C H R L I E, it's short for Charlotte. Okay. Okay, gotcha. So on the birth certificate is Charlotte. She just likes Charlie better. I like that. Yeah, I don't know enough female Charlies Yeah, they're out there. Oh, yeah. No, I've heard of them When you think about like your grandfather your father like like are you How would I say this question, right? Like is that Part of your legacy of like being in business and finding a way into business and enterprise is hankers back when you were doing those first flips or whatever. Or did you imagine being a corporate finance guy of some sort of construction management guy or whatever? I always wanted to be an entrepreneur working for yourself and, and you know, the lifestyle is, is important to me that work life balance, especially as I get older, becomes more and more important. And I, you know, I don't need a big fancy title at a big corporate job. Like that's not me. You know, I, I like, uh, setting my own path. And, um, I can be self starting in that way too. Yeah. I, I wake up hungry for it. You come with your own batteries. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I want more out of life and, you know, we've built an expensive lifestyle for ourselves. You know, it's also fun along the way. We're not building houses as fast as we used to, so we got to figure something else out here. Yup. Yup. Um, but no, we're having a ton of fun. And, uh, like I said, my wife's a physical therapist in, in town here. She's a, she's a healer. Yeah. She loves treating people and taking care of people. And, uh, That's good to know. Actually, once in a while, I lean up on my, uh, friends and members, wives, or people who are physical therapists, when I got something flaring up, I need a little work. Let her know. She'll help you out. Mostly, I just let them, I want them to teach me how to do stuff on my own, cause I'm too cheap to like, go once every week or whatever, but, you know. I think the same thing, and I just never do it on my own anyways. I've just asked you to rehab. I had a rotator cuff on my shoulder that, like, wouldn't let me, like, reach in the back seat to grab a banana. Uh, and I, but. Eight months, it took me to rehab that thing, and then, like, finally, I found progress, but, but now I know. It's important. If I had a good physical therapist, it probably would have been three, what, three months or something like that, but, anyway, um, so, Charlie and, sorry. And Evie. Evie. Short for Evelyn. And, um, Seems like you're about ready for a third? Oh, I don't know. Yeah, I think we're kind of sitting on that decision here for a minute. Yeah, alright, alright. And, you know, I labeled Evie as tough. She, um, she's one of three people in Colorado that carries a rare kidney disease. And although she's fine, We've had a very tough go with her trying to figure that you know out and what's wrong with her So like time with Children's Hospital, yeah Yep, absolutely. That's okay. Yeah, she's healthy now and I think you know, we learned a lot about it And like I said, she's tough. I wasn't laughing at you I was one of my one of our good friends from Colorado Springs when we first moved up here Jill and I Their little boy had like a heart disease Surgery thing required like right after birth and stuff. And so for a month we watched their pit bull boxer and that dog was awesome, but it wanted nothing more than to eat both of our cats that we had at the time. So it was a month of service of dedicated service, knowing that at any point in time, if we made a mistake, Our cat would get eaten. So anyway, love you, Jamie, if you're out there, but that was my, that was my closest brush and, and thank God their little boy is, uh, is doing great today and stuff like that and whatever. And may, may, uh, Evie's experience be the same. Yeah. Thank you. You got littles? Yep. Uh, one, uh, two year old daughter named Sutton. Okay. Um, and one word to describe her. I don't know why it's gonna, healthy. She's a eater? Yeah, she's an absolute unit of a baby. But I, but also, you know, I was thinking, I was like, that's gonna be, that's gonna be mean, healthy, but like, I mean it in all ways. But she listens to this when she's 10. Yeah, but she's joyful, she's, uh, she does, you know, she'll eat anything, try it, she's running around, she's playful, she's friendly, she's, Yeah. Um, it just seems like she, no emotional imbalances, no crying for no good reason because she ran into a wall. Yeah, exactly. And that even won't stop her sometimes. I've heard the wall cry more than I have when she does it. And so just, you know, on that aspect, she's, uh, I used to call her healthy when she was just a butterball little baby, uh, but it kind of holds some context. Carried through. Yeah. It carried through. Yeah. Tell me about the circumstances of, uh, meeting Andrew's sister here. Yep. A little more. Yeah. So we, uh, we all met on the beach, as I said, I, as he said, I got bit in the face. I got bit in the face. I had a big old, uh, you know, flap of nose hanging off. But you were already dating this girl at the time? Uh, no, no. No, you weren't. Okay. I mean, that's when I met all of them. Oh, okay. Okay. I think that's when they first met. Yeah. You were a part of a different group, kind of, or something ish? Yeah, I met a mutual friend at a party, um, like a holiday party or something. And I was kind of going through a transition in my own life of friend groups and people that I was hanging out with. They invited me. They're like, you want to come to a camping trip in Nebraska? The person I was riding with, I got too close to their dog, ended up going to the camping trip with a flap of my nose hanging off. And, uh, and, you know, Tay always tells me, I know there is like a, there's like a little scar there. It looks like it could have been a, what do they call that? Like the butt chin? Yeah, exactly. Like chin nose. And, uh, and still somehow I wooed her over. Between that and them saying I resemble Owen Wilson, I must have really made a good impact. Um, at the, uh, at the event for her to kind of, it wasn't anything that immediately happened after that. I was invited up to CSU games for months and hanging out at Andrew's house and something kind of progressed over there. And it kind of formed during hanging out with everybody. And then we actually became closer friends or, Oh, you guys were friends almost before the relationship with the sister really engaged? Interesting. Yeah, and so we all met at the same time, but then we all began, or began building a friendship and, um, kind of joining with the guys and the mutual friends and then that kind of blossomed. Like, how much of, I don't know how to say this quite right or ask this question. There's been a lot of things that I don't know how to properly say and what I do is just say it and then watch his face react to it. So like, I'm feeling to myself that there's potential here for, for the sister, your wife, to be like, so Andrew, you've become friends with Garrett, like, tell me why. And should I like, go out with him? Cause he keeps calling me and texting me and stuff. I don't even know if she consulted you. I mean, obviously I think she knew. Well, you said that you were in Portland late. Yeah, I think at Red Rocks, if I remember correctly, you know, you guys kind of like tapped me on the shoulder and like, I turned around and you guys were like holding hands or something. And it was like, Oh, Oh, I see what's going on here. So we snuck away like high school kids to the top of Red Rocks to kind of make out and hang out. And then she went down ahead of me to throw everybody off. And then as I came down, he's just standing there like, so yeah, and I was like, yeah, that's true. He knew exactly what we were doing. Um, but honestly, I, um, if she did consult you, going back to the idea again, like I, we had hung out for probably six months and become close as friends and stuff. No, I think that friends first is actually a really awesome thing. What was it like? Like, were you in pursuit? Was she in pursuit? Was it mutual pursuit? Yeah, I tried to fight her off for God. I don't know how long. Yeah, I'm sure. We joke about this all the time, but, uh, we definitely, you know, I think we gravitated towards each other and kind of had that flirtation thing, but then it immediately, I think one, I don't know exactly what the moment was, but there was a transition to where I was like, can I get Tay's number? And then I started texting her and saying, Hey, we should go out to, dinner, go to a show at Red Rocks or stuff like that. And I remember the specific first time we started texting, we actually left Fort Collins after I think a game or something. Then the next morning when we all stayed up here, and nothing was happening. We went to breakfast in town. And I remember getting her number from Sarah, I think. And it was an immediate like kind of transition from there. Yeah. And I think it's interesting to Yeah, not everybody transitions out of the No, no, it's not always easy. Nope. And that's a And then from there, you know, I I was I guess it would have been 29 or 30 at that point. And so I, I knew like, I'm never going to get a cuter girl. I knew damn quickly. Yeah. She'll tell you the same thing. I was like, well, I mean, I don't know how she, uh, fell in that quickly too, because she was fresh out of college, had the world in front of her. And then she was like, I like the nose bite guy. Yeah. Well, that sounds like the best I'm going to get. I feel like we had a fun, uh, fun family tour there. Quick decision. Um, do you want to do, uh, faith or politics topic next? You know, I, I, I mean, either one, both controversial, um, how do you usually lead that conversation I guess? Um, you know, sometimes we brush against faith. As part of our conversation, and I can kind of reference back to it. I haven't heard too many clues yet. I did go to, I went to a Catholic, uh, elementary school, middle school, St. Mark's, you know, I think they were nominally, my mom was Catholic. Uh, and I think that generation all had an affinity toward to lead towards one, you know, religion, if it was Christian Catholic, if you grew up in Judaism. But we were never practicing in the religion. We would go on special holidays. Didn't really know what it meant to be a Christian or a Catholic or any of that really. And then I definitely went to school in the times in which, uh, you know, it was about, you will, you know, you will learn this or you will, um, go to church or go to mass on Wednesdays and then holidays. And it definitely just kind of left me in a space of knowing that, um, I have, uh, the understanding and I have the. want to, to yearn for what the teachings are, but not have any specific religion I gravitate towards. Um, I think all of them are important in teaching and none of them have all of the answers and kind of trying to navigate through that spirituality, religion, Do you believe in some kind of a creator force? Yeah, you know, I believe in a mixture of scientific backed explanations with the fact that it doesn't explain anything. I like that. I like that. Fair enough. Uh, for what it's worth, and I think you'll resonate with this, um, Through most of my adult life, and I'm a Christian, and probably, I probably hold it looser than some people do. But, uh, the last, I don't know, a couple years ago, I tried to shift from a notion of obedience being the expectation, to surrender. Like, obedience is like, you must obey, that sounds terrible. Surrender is like, you know, I'm more powerful than you, you do what I say. Uh, and so I've shifted to that and it's actually, for me, at least, I'm not sure I do it any better either way, but at least my mental appreciation of that notion is enhanced, I suppose, just like words are very, like, there isn't that much difference from obedience to surrender, but there is. And I think that, uh, religion does a really good job in helping individualized or individuals contextualize. Some of those larger questions that I actually find, um, I actually find exciting not having the exact answers or not having the exact, the mystery is the words to put to'em. Okay. And I think that while everyone, you know, might gravitate towards the religion that they believe in, they all assist in, in verbalizing or, or putting words to what that is and how to, how that relates to you and your life and your direction. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I'm okay in that, um, unexplained area, that ambiguousness element. And that's for what it's worth. I'm kind of. Anti religious, uh, that's why I use the word faith. It's kind of like what moves you, what drives you, not what makes you dance like a puppet on a string or whatever. Um, anything else we'd want? Have you investigated? Have you read the Bible? Have you gone to church since you became an adult person? Um, I think that, uh, I have, I can't recall exactly when. I'm, uh, I'm not against any of it. I definitely enjoy reading or listening to kind of all again, Judaism to Christianity to Catholicism, um, have not gone to mass. But I also like if, if, you know, I know your parents are go to mass on Sundays. If they were like, Hey, Garrett, I want you to come with. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. I'm not, you know, not against it. It's just not something I practice. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Uh, any perspective to that? You grew up more Catholic, maybe? I did, I did grow up Catholic. Confirmed Catholic. And, you know, grew up going to church every Sunday. And you guys, you guys both kind of, or at least you said, Garrett, kind of Christian or Catholic. I consider Catholics to be kind of of the subset of Christians, but Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. And, um, you know, a similar thread, like I define myself as spiritual, but not following any specific religion. You still think Jesus is cool? Um, well, you know, it's yes and no, it's a complex question, but the whole stand up sit down regimen every Sunday, having to be obedient, like you said, it just doesn't jive necessarily with, with how we fit and how we want to live our lives. But I do think, you know, there's. There is a greater power out there at play, and I think being a good person in this world, paying it forward You have to think about the Ten Commandments, it's Yeeeaaah Boy, it's like, uh, it's a difficult one, cause like, I just don't, you know, think you're just gonna get, or, you know, sent to hell for some of these things. It's like, we're all human beings at, you know, at the end of the day. Well, and I think that's, probably depends on your interpretation of things, like Exactly. Um, like I've been, I've listened to Jordan Peterson for a while, and Like the word sin is like missing the target, you know, and that's one of the things that maybe frustrates me about the world today is that nobody has a target. And, you know, I miss the target all the time in different ways. Um, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize the target. And I think that's kind of maybe like where some people that are anti religious, especially, maybe not anti faith, but anti religious is like, Well, you can't tell me I'm going to hell just because I missed the target. Well, no, I'm not telling you that Jesus is a decider or God or whatever that force is that might be a decider. I don't even know if heaven and hell is real, but I do think there's a target. Sure. And, and so that's where I kind of come in is that, um, what, like, I think society is better if we agree on some targets. Yeah. Yeah. So like 10 commandments, like if I think about, um, that specific document, it's like pretty much pretty good stuff. Sure. You know, it's kind of like the bill of rights, pretty good stuff. And I think one of my, you know, going a little bit deeper into that, uh, is I think, uh, religion specifically, not just faith was to your point about identifying targets to hit. And the general idea was that you were, um, investing in the, in the learnings and the teachings to identify your North star, your truth, your direction of what your goal is. And then. And then the judgment in that position would be based on how how, um, good your goal was, right? How, how high you could aim and how high you wanted to reach towards that was, um, you know, how religious or, or, but it's turned to me into you being told what your goal should be instead of using religion as a, as a personal, uh, direction device. It's being, this is what you do instead of use this to decide what you want to do. Do you think that the, the, I guess what we'd call the, the, The aggressive left politics of our world today is a religion? I would say that in the context of religion, you, I mean, you could find anything of, uh, uh, I mean, there's no God in it. Yeah, yeah. of, I don't know if there's a specific term for it. I would say that any denomination of, of deciding a specific group of people has some connotation of, of group think or involvement. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I don't think it's been defined very well yet. They haven't put their canon down, but there's a, there's a dogma. Yep. of a new religion that's forming in America, as far as I can tell right now. I would say that that exists on both sides of the spectrum too, right? There's, there's the, the politics, uh, uh, from a, uh, from a separation of church and state. We sure as hell don't have a lot of separation of church and state in the moment of either just far left politics involving a kind of a religious aspect, or right politics involving a religious aspect. And well, the far left isn't acknowledged as religious right now. Yeah. And gravitating towards that. And so I definitely think that identifying as like a specific subset of people, whether it be Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, far left, far right, whatever that is, you're kind of saying, this is my belief system. Yeah. Yeah. And you subscribe to this or else. And I think what I've heard is both of you guys are like, I'm out if it's subscribed to this or else. Cause, and I, you know, I would say that I'm kind of in that same vein. I've been kind of libertarian, uh, type person. You know, I voted for Ross Perot with my first vote and Kanye West with my most recent. So I, you know, I'm not a fall in line and vote this way kind of guy. And I do think that there's value in like those targets. What can, you know, there are some things that we can agree as Americans that we're pointing toward, even if it isn't from a religious background, politics. Questions? Um, uh, who are you voting for in four weeks? Six weeks? I think, uh, I think Locally or internationally? Yeah, from my personal opinion, you know, with, with the divisiveness on both sides, uh, I don't know if it's beneficial anymore to identify with who you're voting for. Right? But I will tell you that, you know, on both sides, Like what, what going back to subscribe or else, like we've gotten into an era in which you have to subscribe one way or the other. When in fact there's a position in which so many points and positions and policies could be massively beneficial if we Navigated and picked From both directions. It's about finding where you can rest easier. Yeah decision not about what you really want It's so where can I rest easy if you were gonna run for public office? What would be some of your most important things? Let's rephrase that question Yeah, and I think this is one of the times in which I am the key Proponent of, I will not badmouth anybody else's position in politics because I would have no idea what to do. that's a, you know. Yeah. I'm glad I, yeah. I, I don't like as much as I could complain about the stuff that went down in Covid Nation. Yeah. It was like, I was really glad I wasn't the decider, the one, the DecisionMaker. I had to put my initials on that decision. Yep. And there's so, so many big decisions. Although I would've made better decisions. Yeah, exactly. Just saying and economics and all of that. That like, you know, I, I have to just. You know, give in to the idea that I'm going to vote for where I think my position best lies, but For you or for everybody? Well, How do you drive your vote? Yeah. Is it for the best for you or is it for what you think is the best for everybody, even if it's maybe less good for you? I'll step in on this one. You know, I voted, I voted, uh, both sides of the aisle and, you know, conservatively, financially. sound there. And then, you know, socially, I usually vote, vote left. So you're a closet libertarian too. Sure. Sure. And ultimately, you know, That's what I tell people all the time. I think what it comes down to is, is socially for me, like, what's the most important issues that really affect your local family and then the greater good of the people. And Having daughters in this world, I think the right to choose is, is very important, and ultimately I think, you know, my wife's very adamant and has, is very vocal about that one issue, it's important to our family, and so ultimately that's kind of where we lie with things. And it, and it's kind of a bummer that it comes down to one decision, right? But like, Yeah, and is that the most important issue? Because it might never affect either of your daughters or your wife in the rest of their lives. Correct. But, but that's what we have to protect. I know. Yeah. Well, I don't know, I mean. Yeah. You're welcome. It's, it's the idea that, that, that that's what it's been based off of is that you have to pick one thing that, and in any family's decision making, another family might have a different decision, but we are so singular policy based, too, that if I have to have this, or if, you know, it could be healthcare, my wife and I are the same. Well, then your party can do everything in the world. Right. And you're like, well, I hate all these things, but at least they're on my side on that. I actually wrote about that in my blog that came out today, and mine is peace. Like, it isn't abortion, it isn't Like, it's which party seems to be more in the pursuit of peace in the world. Yeah. Um What's your perspective there? What's your Oh, Trump, for sure. Yeah, that's, I mean, the military industrial complex, like, Dick Cheney just fucking endorsed Kamala. And it isn't because he thinks Trump is Hitler, it's because the war machine is hungry. It wants to keep eating. Yeah. Revenues. And like, once Trump showed that he wanted to do Abraham Accords and draw down troops and dah, dah, dah, they were like, I'm hungry for some more power and some more funding and let's see what we can do in Ukraine. Yeah. And I truly believe that. That's the like, for me, I'm not going to, I'll probably vote for RFK because Trump ain't going to win Colorado. Yeah. Um, but I hope Trump wins because I think he's, I think Kamala would be, This is beyond, but I, I think Kamala might be, feel obligated to prove that she's not weak and that she's not Joe Biden. And she might accidentally get us into a fucking World War III or damn near their kind of scenario because she wants to prove that she's a strong woman. And I'm sorry, but like, I don't think she's got Putin's respect yet. And I think, you know, you might just accidentally fuck it all up. And I think that that's where they, where my concern lies about my own ability to say, this is how I think things will happen is that I don't know necessarily about what impact each one of those things will have. Right? So when you say that you're for peace, what I'm hearing is you're actually for, United States being involved in a peaceful manner, not necessarily world peace. And I'm not saying that, that like, you know, um, that that may or may not happen. But we're the main instigators, like that's our main industry right now. A big thing we can have a competitive advantage is making bombs and airplanes to drop bombs and missiles and fucking guidance systems. And, you know, like they're talking right now about like Ukraine can't fire their long range missiles that we're talking about using to To help support the resistance, like a thousand miles deep into Russia without American troops, like showing them how to run it. And, and like, if you're firing missiles, a thousand miles into Russia and killing their nuclear facilitation facilities that make bombs or generate electricity for Moscow, like you're looking for. I think this is where, and it might be an ignorant position on my, on my part, but like going back to, I guess the, the right to choose, right. Is that I do believe that I could probably take a larger position on, on investigating or understanding the dynamics of, of world, uh, war, you know, positioning and, and training and all of that, but in the short term, and it's probably a terrible thing that we have to deal with is I'm, as you said, you know, focused, you know, Truth on building my family's business and, and trying to navigate that while maintaining a family or a, uh, personal life and ensuring that my daughter has the right to choose for her own body that I haven't had the time to actually investigate the, the dynamics of logistics of war in Ukraine. And that might hinder my ability to vote. That's interesting. This is a really fascinating conversation because I think that, I mean, that right to choose thing might. Tip the election. Very much so, because so many women are like, get away from that. My right to choose. You know? And I don't think Trump thinks he took away that from women. I think he thinks he gave it to the States, which broke a problem. Sure. Right. And if, if your daughters or your daughter's daughters. want to choose, they can move to whatever state they want that has the right to choose. In theory. That's what he thinks. Yeah. That's what I think he thinks. And I think, you know, I think giving it back to the state, you know, not necessarily the wrong call. Yeah. But, but I think Yeah, see? Well, so why is everybody so mad? Well, because, because you're talking about some of the lesser educated states not getting the right birth control. I mean, there's, there's a much But there's still smart people in Alabama that can figure out how to put a condom on or fucking get pills from Tennessee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that abort their baby if that's what they want. Like, it's a, it's an open world, you can't really prevent abortion in today's world but you can maybe discourage it and I give those states the right to try if they want to. I mean, that's, and I think for me personally, I think the, the right to choose for abortion is a, is a way to describe a larger context of the two parties, which is, which is a, a, while it's a freedom party, you think of the freedom of self, uh, is more, is, you know, it, it flip flops so much from side to side, because if you went back to COVID times, we're talking about mask and shots and all of that went the other way. Totally. Well, and censorship is. It's thick in the Democratic. Like, Kamala might freaking reduce free speech a lot during her presidency. And the problem that we've run into is that if we identify with the, the want to choose or freedom of self or, or, you know, whatever they say, decency, it would mean that we're against peace. Right. And then if somebody would say, Oh, you want peace. So you're against the women's right to choose. Right. They're not, they're not self, uh, You know contained we don't live in silos here. And so it's such a Kind of a pulled two separate sides so far. Well, and it's intentional Like I think that's the message I would leave you guys is that it that there's an intentionality behind that. Yeah that issue So disappointing that it's so polarizing. It just feels like such a team sport and you know, totally Well, the three of us can sit here and have a conversation and understand each other's perspective. I think quite a bit. Yeah But that's not the norm, I think, in the United States. No, no, well, and I'd like to bring it back. Yeah. Bring conversation back. Yeah. Yeah. As part of the foundation of this podcast, even. I'm starting to have to go pee soon, but if we can be quick about our local experiences, we can get through them. Um, Garrett, why don't you go first? What's the craziest experience that you're willing to share with our listeners? Oh, God. In life? Business? Your life, yeah. Whatever. Uh, yeah. Near death, uh, your wife left you at the altar to chase her old high school boyfriend. I don't know. Whatever. Whatever crazy experience comes to mind. Yeah. You know, I think, uh, God, it put me on the spot, and I even read your email, and I didn't think through one, but. Um, wow. I, I think that there, God, this, yeah. I mean, I'm going to quit my, I would honestly say my push Toyota corporate thing and buy a pizza shop. I was going to say that's, that's probably the wildest, even though it's felt like something that I've been able to manage with, with partnerships, but quitting, uh, you know, a very healthy, um, longstanding, uh, Job at a fortune 10 company to say, I can try it and see what happens. And then also, you know, being able to have the trust given into me to afford the large equity investment, large cash investment, um, to, to put it on my shoulders. It's, it's stressful and exciting at the same time. I'm sure. I'm sure. Well, I hope you succeed. Righteous. Uh, Andrew, do you have, uh? Gosh, I don't. Not one that I would be willing to share. What's one that you wouldn't want to share? You can, uh, clip some beep beeps. Yeah, I think, um, It's been a nice journey. I think what we are doing with our business is a little crazy. Some people would call it, but you know, it's been a lot of fun and it's been calculated as well. And so, you know, just always been in an inherent risk taker and always felt like, you know, I can, I can manage, um, whatever's next. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's been a fun journey for my business career and, yeah. And I'm confident with that. I'm good at risk and I I'll let you guys leverage risk with me a little bit. Let's see. Have some fun. Well, everybody go to Anthony's Pizza and Pasta. Call for delivery or takeout. Yes, sir. Thank you for having us. It was fun. Thank you, Kurt. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it, Kurt. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Loco Experience podcast produced and sponsored by Loco Think Tank. This is your producer Alma Arellano. Check out our website at thelocoexperience. com to find all of our episodes, nominate future guests, or leave us a message. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at The Loco Experience. To support the show, please subscribe and share it with your favorite people. Until next time, stay loco.