The LoCo Experience
The LoCo Experience is produced and sponsored by LoCo Think Tank - and sometimes others! Our mission is to uncover as much business education as possible while getting to know the founders and leaders of amazing organizations. You'll feel like you really know our guests after each episode, and if we're doing our job well, you'll learn business principles and tips from them along the journey and be both inspired and entertained. Episodes feature a range of local and regional business and community leaders as guests in a conversational interview format. The more interesting the journey, the better the experience!
The LoCo Experience
EXPERIENCE 187 | A Journey through Ministry and into Entrepreneurship with Noah and Allli Hutchison, CEO and Principal Designer at Hutch Design Build
Noah and Alli Hutchison met during their college years at Baylor, and grew a friendship through their shared involvement in a church community - Antioch Waco. Alli started doing interior design work for friends and their friends soon after college, and eventually they worked in church ministry, with Noah as the Childrens & Family Director. They moved to Fort Collins in 2015 where Noah was the Executive Director for Antioch Fort Collins - basically leading the administrative function to allow the Pastors to focus on service and teaching.
I first heard about Noah when he ran for city council in Fort Collins in 2019 as a relative newcomer to town - and fell just short. Their season in ministry with Antioch ended about the same time, and Noah and Alli both went to work in construction, with Noah first as CFO and later President of Northern Colorado Construction Firm, and Alli as Lead Designer - and only for a few seasons. Hutch Design Build was launched in April of 2022, and has already grown to a team of 7!
Hutch Design Build offers design-first custom solutions for major remodels and additions, accessory dwelling units, and full-custom family homes - and as of a few days before this conversation Noah and Alli have secured the longtime coffee house location The Bean Cycle in Old Town Fort Collins - and have some amazing plans for the space.
You’ll have to tune in to hear about those plans, and also to get to know an amazing couple, using their shared strengths to make client’s home and family dreams come true! So please enjoy, as I did, my conversation with Noah and Alli Hutchison.
The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/
Follow us to see what we're up to:
Facebook
Music By: A Brother's Fountain
Noah and Allie Hutchinson met during their college years at Baylor and grew a friendship through their shared involvement in a church community, Antioch Waco. Allie started doing interior design work for friends and their friends soon after college and eventually they worked in church ministry with Noah as the children's and family director. They moved to Fort Collins in 2015, when Noah became the Executive Director for Antioch Fort Collins, basically leading the administrative function to allow the pastors to focus on service and teaching. I first heard about Noah when he ran for City Council in 2019, as a relative newcomer to town. Their season in ministry with Antioch ended about the same time, and Noah and Allie both went to work in construction, with Noah first as CFO and then later president of Mighty Hen Construction, and Allie as lead designer, and only for a few seasons. Hutch Design Build was launched in April of 2022, and has already grown to a team of seven. Hutch Design Build offers design first custom solutions for major remodels and additions, accessory dwelling units, and full custom family homes. And as of a few days before this conversation, Noah and Allie have secured the long time coffeehouse location, The Bean Cycle, in Old Town Fort Collins and have some amazing plans for the space. You'll have to tune in to hear about those plans, though, and also to get to know an amazing couple using their shared strengths to make their clients home and family dreams come true. So please enjoy, as I did, my conversation with Noah and Allie Hutchinson. welcome back to the loco experience podcast. My guests today are Noah and Allie Hutchinson, and they are the co founders of, and CEO and principal designer of Hutch design built. Welcome. Thanks. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, glad to be here. Uh, what have you guys been up to today? Oh, you know, putting out some fires at job sites. Not literal fires. Yeah, yeah. Figurative fires. I unloaded 90 cabinets off of a semi this morning. Okay. Because all the rest of my team was busy. Uh, so. That's pretty good. That was fun. Is that all one project? Yeah. Four projects. Oh, wow. You guys got a lot of projects going. Yeah. I have a lot of cabinets that we got, cabinets. Gotcha, gotcha. Um, why don't I start with you, Noah? Why don't, why don't you give me the 90 second, uh, Hutch design build does this for who? Sure. When, uh, I go to the networking events that you're at, I tell people I make people's dreams come true. And that always catches them and then they say, what? So what do you really do? And I say, I actually just own a design build company that does residential remodels. People thought you were a gigolo or something. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what I look like. I'm sure it comes across that way. Um, yeah, but 90 second version is we have a. Great team of seven that does residential home builds, remodels, large scale additions, and yeah, we are normal people trying to serve normal people, but usually it's families who are looking to expand their house or really make it their own. And that becomes the fun journey we get to go on from concept all the way to completion. And yeah, I imagine sometimes it's even Can you provide us with a design that we can keep our existing home and our neighbors that we already have? For sure. And then as you explore it, you're like, you know, we could just build you this over here. Would that be pretty sweet too? Yeah, I mean, I think I do have a passion for, uh, people staying in their existing communities. And I love that too. I love making homes, uh, the dream that they've wanted their home to be. And they kind of, uh, they don't want to leave their neighbors. I, yeah, I would say that's more what I, my bread and butter is like, how do we make this thing into a place that really can host your family or your dreams? Like what, whatever you had as your dream when you walked into the space to buy it. Yeah. Last year, we, uh, chopped off the top of a house. And the top of their garage. Yeah. And set a house on top of a house so that those people could stay there and now we just added a house beside a house that we're currently working on for their neighbors because none of them want to leave. It's an amazing neighborhood. It's a great neighborhood. A little compound. Yeah. Allie, where did you get your, your start in design? Have you always worked in this industry? No I haven't. My, so my, uh, My first degree is in social work, actually, from Baylor University. And I, it had always been kind of a hobby of mine, you know. Decor, I'd always been on a shoestring budget, DIYing, that kind of thing. Uh, we owned a home in, uh, and we'll get into this, I'm sure in a minute, but we owned a home in Texas and did kind of a DIY flip of it. Uh, I really enjoyed that as, as well as Noah did too. Kind of like the thing that you would watch on TV. Yeah. Yeah. But we didn't know what the hell we were doing. Right. Well, you learned a lot. So yeah, we learned a lot. Um, so yeah, I, it had always been a passion and then kind of. snowballed into friends saying like, I love your house. Will you come and just give me tips? And then that snowballed into, um, people like further out that were paying me to come by and, um, just organic. Didn't have any formal education. Well, then I actually went back to school at front range, um, and did their design program there, um, and got an amazing education. It was super, super. applicable. Um, I actually did that as I was working, um, in the design field. So it, it started out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I was like, I need to know what I'm actually doing. So, yeah. So, um, how would you characterize your design style? Cause I, I feel like your style, even though Noah 90 cabinets off a truck, it's kind of your sense of style and design that kind of powers your brand design. Sure. Proposition, is that fair? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say my style, if I had to categorize it, I'd say it's transitional. Um, I do pride myself on not coming in, uh, guns a blazing. Here's what we're doing. Yeah. Like this is, you know, you need to do this trendy thing because at the end of the day, the client's going to live in the space and, uh, and needs to serve them and their family and feel like them. Um, not like some designer came in and. Try to do something for the gram. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so, but I would say my own personal style, transitional, leaning towards, oh, I, I've really loved the traditional, it's called the Nancy Myers style. Uh, then the director, uh, if you see some of her nineties movies, that stuff's kind of coming back in style. So that's my personal, like in our personal home, what I'm But being a designer is really about finding. Other people's preferences. I mean, I think so. Absolutely. Yeah. I certainly know what's on trend. And if a client's like, Hey, I want to lean in. I want you to push me on trends here. I will happily do that. Um, But at the end of the day, again, I want it to feel authentic to them. It needs to really serve them, serve their, well, high functional style sounds like too, I'm hearing. Yeah, definitely. Noah, how did you find your way into the construction industry? Yeah, I think people always. We'll say something like, Oh, so you must be really great at building stuff. And I go, well, not exactly. Uh, and so I, I tell them my story is more than a more of a business guy. And that's been my journey, uh, working in organizations, being a business guy. And so that's really still what I am in the context of Hutch design build, which is why. A general contractor really just coordinates a lot of talented people to do stuff at the right time. They do. You know how to hire people. Yeah, I know how to hire great people. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I mean, I do have my GC license, and so I've done, you know, my fair share of work and understanding it, but I'm not going to be your trim carpenter, and I'm more happy to be an ox that takes 90 cabinets off of the thing while someone else does something really technical. Uh, so, yeah. Yeah, how to get this, uh, this joist attached just right on the eave. Yeah. So, uh, you know, I think that, uh, I feel like I'm more of a serial entrepreneur and that I've always tried to just put more irons in the fire in different places. So even as we go through this story, there's all kinds of things that I won't even talk about of like, uh, working. I know you like the Bible project and I've mentioned it before, but, uh, Working and translating that to other languages with a team of people in Indonesia. Oh, is that right for the Bible project? was like a side gig I did for a while to help the translation and all that occur and The administrator of all of that happening. So Oh many many random Junctures and ventures on the side have occurred. Oh, that's fascinating. Um, when we think about the general contracting industry or the design build industry, if you will, like, how would you, like, what's the value proposition if you will, or maybe, maybe beyond that, like describe a kind of a customer journey a bit, like, what do you, what's It's a good coordinator role, right? Like, it's kind of, yeah, it's such a big vision to build a house, to do a remodel. How do you capture it in small pieces? Uh, sure. I think a simple thing I would say is that, uh, something Allison always tells people is that, you know, we kind of take your stress on for you. And at the end of the day, we're doing the same thing day in and out. And so, you know, it's not that your neighbor sucks. He's doing his own remodel, uh, when it takes him 12 months, he literally just runs into the same problems that we keep you from running into, uh, and prepare for. So if you want us to be able to do it in 12 weeks or less. exactly how you want it, then that's what you're paying for. And you don't have, we take on your stress. We know, we know the pitfalls, uh, and our team is able to, uh, yeah, really be able to jump across that, uh, pond for you and get your house done. The other thing I'd say is that one of the interesting things that happened in COVID is everybody decided that they could be a contractor and not everyone, but many people, because. People were in their homes. There was a lot of desire to change it. And so really across the industry, there's finally a weeding out, if you will, of different folks that as interest rates have gone up, they project volume have finally realized, Oh, okay, this is, I'm not cut out for this. Uh, versus the people who were there before or during and after who continue to offer their value proposition to a market that is ready to accept it. Because there's a need there for people who still. Want to improve and see their homing. Well, and I think done right, like a general contractor can probably complete a project for you, not just in 12 weeks, but also at not too much different price because they know how to keep from getting taken advantage of by subs and different things like that. So, you know, although you want to treat your subs fairly, so you can keep good longterm subs. Uh, You know what the value is. Yeah. And if you call up a concrete company and ask for a price as a client and a consumer in our city, hopefully, and for sure they're charging you more. And so in theory, then what you're contracted one, then what we're getting. Right. So in theory, whether it's us or there's some great other companies in town, hopefully they're by far exceeding the value that you're getting out of them. Cause they're not only passing that price along to you, unless they're gouging you. Right. And, uh, you are getting. to not have to worry about it. Well, that and, uh, that concrete company that comes to do the consumer driveway might have spent 700 in Google AdWords to get your business. And for the, the contractor, concrete company, that's like, you know, to do something for 400 less and not have to mess around with Google AdWords is pretty good deal. And I would say we, we don't call them subs, we call them trade partners because they really are partners in this business for us. And we pride ourselves on developing that relationship with the subs, um, or the trade partners. Um, And yeah, we, we pride ourselves on caring about, you know, we know what's happening with their family, that kind of thing. And we know also that they're going to show up on the job site when they say they're going to show up. Yeah, there's relationships there. Yeah, I would say going back to your value proposition question that I would add that I think we are We are there to, to serve the family that's just crazy busy, you know, we, we relate really well to that. As you'll hear soon. We have a, we have three kids and our life is crazy and I can't imagine. Trying to manage all that we manage on a day to day basis, and also a home project. Um, like a large scale home project. It would just be impossible. Yeah, yeah. And, so I love coming in and being able to be like, Here's what you need to do. I love you lift this off of your shoulders. Here's the timeline, yeah. And, so. And not if, but when there's a little hiccup because we, we deal with so many different people on these projects that will handle it. And we got you covered. Yeah, I dig it. Um, how old is such design build now? So almost three years. Okay. So yeah, we were partners at another firm before that. Uh, and. We could talk more about that, but, uh, yeah, I just kind of found that we wanted to do our own thing, had a certain way of how we wanted to do it. I was a CEO, she had developed and was leading a design team and ultimately. Yeah, one thing led to another and had different vision than the founder. And so they went their way and, uh, we went our way and, uh, yeah. So you kind of spun out of, and you learned your craft, both of you to some extent with that company, that larger company. Yeah. Thankful for that time. And, uh, but yeah, thankful to be able to have something of our own that we've really designed. How, how was your emotional state when the, The leaping was getting ready to happen, Allie. Was that nervous for you or was that? Uh, it was like, okay, here we go. We're doing this. Did you have a project already? Booked or anything like that? We did not. We had, um, some friends that put great faith in us early on, um, and forever thankful for that. Um, We were also working, we were working a big flip that we were doing on the side. Oh, right, I remember you talking about that. And then I also kind of stayed on contract at that other company to finish out my, Gotcha. My jobs there, not leave the clients high and dry, but, um, yeah, it, um, It for sure felt like a leap. It also felt like it really made sense. Yeah. And it felt like, uh, if, you know, the universe God was really, I mean, it was really apparent this was the step we needed to take. Yeah. So there was some, some peace in that, but I mean, it was still like, we were, it was still scary for sure. Yeah. But he's also the serial entrepreneur as you'll learn in these. In this podcast, we are total opposites. Let's talk about, uh, let's talk about that team. I didn't realize it was up to seven already. I think this time last year you were, you were four, kind of four and a half ish, or something like that, five maybe. Um, what, what roles are the right roles for your company? Yeah, so I have two design assistants, and so we really work as a team on the design end of things, um, and they are gracious to let me do that. ultimately lead the, uh, the design vision. So that's like drawing and designing and stuff, but it's also like going out shopping for materials and things like that. Is that true? Yeah, sourcing materials. Uh, they also do product procurement. So, uh, they handle all the ordering, all the quality checking of everything that comes in material wise, um, in partnership with our team admin. Uh, and then they, yeah, they. work in tandem with me as far as vision of the space, uh, and we'll pull up. You know, what they've worked on, and I'll say, let's tweak this here, and that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's a lot of just, kind of work to it as well, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Making straight lines, and getting all that kind of stuff. So many measurements. So, so design team is kind of three. Yeah, and then I oversee the two guys doing construction, and so, We've done it different ways, but, uh, the way we have set up now is we have a project manager who's more office oriented and a superintendent. These roles get thrown around a million different ways, uh, but in the superintendent who's a little more field oriented. Right, right. Uh, in theory, the project manager is more of a manager, more client communication, and our superintendent is more trade partner oriented. Um, he's fluent in Spanish, so he's, you know, going back and forth with several of the guys there who, so that he can, you know, take care of the whole team. Uh, and then I oversee those guys, and then we have an admin that jumps between the two of us. Okay. And Coda is more broad. Um, things. And then I do sales and marketing. Business development. Business development and I do visionary. Yeah. Of the business stuff. Okay. For the most part, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Are you guys running a U. S.? We aren't. Or self implementing ish? Um, you know, I think there's a level of self implementing. I think, so my master's was in organizational leadership. Okay. So, I've always been a little bit of a junkie for, you know, Um, whatever system was out there and all the different systems and reading it in my free time. Uh, so I would say we have a meld of a lot of different things. Um, but. But you said you're the visionary, Allie. I think we've, we've realized this over the last, uh, maybe year and a half. Uh, originally when we started this, I was like, you lead the business, I'll do the design and never the twain shall meet. And then, uh, we are 50, 50 owners in this and I have realized how much of a passion it is for me for the big picture. Uh, not just the design details. I mean, I can get in there, but ultimately I've realized I'm a big picture person and that's been a lot of self development growth and, and standing into like, um, Uh, leaning into my voice and realizing that that's been a growth journey for me. Uh, I think I Originally came at it from a you lead and all design From a more out of fear than anything. And so I think it's been a it's been a growth journey for me realizing like no I really actually super care about this business and have a ton of vision for where I want to take it And he can totally get in the visionary lane Um And at the same time, really excels in the, in the specifics of the implementation. It seems like you've got a character of, like if, uh, 27, like, thoughts meet in one place, you can kind of integrate that into NOAA without too much struggle, whereas for many of us, that's kind of overwhelming. No, it's, it is true. I like, and I like, I make it, I make it, I can make things happen. Uh, and I like doing it. Those were the 27 thoughts just going into my head. I was just trying to compute all 27. Uh, no, I mean, I love making things happen. And I think I realized that, yeah, I can play the visionary role. Uh, but I've always liked being the make it happen guy. Yeah, yeah. And so, uh, yeah, it's fun that we get to do that together. And Well, fun that I get to be here, kinda, Allie, cause this has to be a bit of a reinforcing conversation for that, uh, stepping into your brilliance of vision and more public facing than, uh, Noah's usually the guy on the streets, you know, going to the chamber meetings. He is. You and I met each other, like, once, and then we saw each other, like, three times more within, like, uh, Oh, really? Five week span, Noah. We're like, oh, we're going all, yeah, we're going all to the same places. And it was a few different kinds of events. Yeah, exactly. It was pretty funny. That's true. Um, what else would you have folks know about, um, the design build industry? Like, do you have, let's talk about where, where you go from here. I mean, are you happy being kind of a self employed? 7 person team. Do you have a little bit of growth? Who would you add next if you were going to add somebody to the team? Questions like that? Well, maybe before we jump into that, I Please. It was two questions, so Two questions. Take the first part of the question. I do think it's really an interesting industry. Um, we've, and one of the things which is going to lead into the other is we've really tried to focus on being really integrated into the national scale of what's the national circuit of what's going on. And so Allie can mention that a little bit on the design front in a moment, but I think from the building when that's looked like being involved in the national home builders, being involved with other people and other markets and meeting with them, um, And, uh, yeah, really looking for opportunities to learn from across the industry. Uh, it's grown a lot and I feel like there's a lot of, uh, advancement that's occurred in the industry. And, you know, it's easy to just throw the word AI out, which we could talk about how that's impacted the industry. Uh, I mean, from a simple, yeah, from a simple thing of like, for us, like we use, um, There's a big venture capital investment that happened with this company that was at the International Builder Show last year Into this company that we now use for a lot of our accounting and it takes Uh, if you sent me a bill, you're the concrete guy, you sent me a bill, uh, I just forward it to an email address and it integrates all that information right into the payment system for approval. Uh, it just reads it straight off the sheet, uh, and then it can use AI to categorize it to the right project and everything. Uh, it can if all the information's there. That's a little help sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But stuff like that's super interesting. Like, I know that out in Greeley there, look there, uh, have a big movement of concrete printing houses, um, with some of those guys. And so not that that's AI, but it's technology and its impact. Uh, and so it will be interesting to see how that makes a change on the actual building front, but people will say, Hey, do you think that The jobs will be replaced and there's no way, you know, there's just too much human in what we do. Not in the custom building sector. There are 3D printed houses coming out, that kind of thing. They're, um, or they're, uh, manufactured, like a whole wall is manufactured in the warehouse and then shipped out, that kind of thing. But, uh, As far as the custom space, I find that hard. Is there AI use in design space? For sure, for sure. Uh, there's a lot of AI in, uh, design generation and, uh, So that is both encouraging and a little scary because it can be hard for people to, uh, well, one, it's our intellectual property. Right. Uh, but two, it can be hard for people, just the general consumer, to, uh, Uh, sometimes identify if that's an AI generated image or if that's something that's actually buildable in real life. And so somebody can come and say, I want this kitchen. And I'm like, well, actually, where are your outlets going to go to meet code in this kitchen? Because there's no outlets in here, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, I've been, uh, I guess I would call myself kind of an AI cynic. You know, I had, I think it even says on my blog, you know, if you're reading it here and it says Kurt's name on it, I didn't, To have AI do anything with it kind of thing. Love that. And, um, Alma's been using it to help us with some of our proof copy for this ThinkerFest event and even re describing some of the speaker's key description and takeaways and stuff. And I'm reading it and I'm like, that's really good. Like I'm, I'm a, I'm really a pretty excellent writer, I would say, I'm pretty good at grammar and all those things. I'm like, dang, that's better than mine, you know? And it can learn your grammar and spit it back out. Right. That's what I was telling Alma. I'm like, could it just Read all my past blogs and then write my September blog for me. I can give it a title. It can. And, I don't know, there's some value in chewing through what you want to write about for five hours instead of just prompting it. But it's a fascinating world in that space and I imagine design is no less complex than a good essay. Absolutely. Sure. More complex in most cases. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it goes. So regardless, you intend to be kind of a, at least tech literate and perhaps tech forward kind of organization. Absolutely. As far as efficiencies in that software, like you were talking about NOAA and different things like that. Yeah, and I think that both the design and the build space have been very paper, you know, paper copy and The old ways of doing it and there's pride in that and I totally get that I mean, I will say every time I get a Set of prints that have been hand drawn like say a homeowner had an old set of prints I'm like, oh such a lost art form And I do geek out about those And then you go get on your computer. And then I get on my computer and design it. And stretch those lines, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, so we'll see where it goes, but I mean there's definitely tools that, I mean it's such a complex thing to do. Right. To build something that's, especially something custom. Especially if there's city approvals required or So many things, yeah. And so we do lean on, Lean on the technology. Yeah, we, uh, it definitely hasn't replaced the human workforce and what we do though. And I was going to say, there's a book that I can't think of what this book's called, but there's a book that talks about the top five hardest jobs. And you know, one of them says you would expect like a surgeon, uh, but home building, remodeling is one of the supposedly the top five hardest because of all the moving pieces. Cause on a, on a given job, we could have, you know, there's 40 to 50 different vendors. And trade partners. Well, vendors. Vendors, oh yeah, those would be just the supplier. Yep, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, and then trade partners who are being coordinated on a given job. So, you know, uh, many a chance to go awry. One, one project is quite a bit. And how many projects, uh, have you had going at a time? What's your So, we're working 15 projects now, so Oh, dang. Now, not all of them are in active construction. Yeah. Yeah. So we have four projects in active construction right now. But if you're doing it right, that's a fairly short timeline. Yeah. Right. That's 12 weeks or whatever. It might take six months to get the design polished up. One of them is a whole, a whole home build. So it's been a longer timeline. Sure. Uh, but yeah, 16 week project and two 12 week projects. And, um, yeah. And then we start another round next month. And then the next one. And then the next one. Well, and uh, you were sharing just before we came into the studio that you've got some exciting, uh, hot to the press news, hot to the press news here. Uh, you want to share about that? Uh, yeah. So it kind of, if you look for what the big picture vision was, it was, uh, more than just being a design build company. It was, again, going back to this entrepreneurial spirit of how do we, uh, you know, create Make your dreams come true. How do we make, uh, uh, more people's dreams come true? You know? And so one of those dreams was what would it look like to, if you were to ask us five years or so ago at least, Hey, what would, what would your big dream be? And we would say, Hey, if we had a furniture store in Old Town and our company ran out of it, that would be. Uh, and so last week we signed a lease on a storefront in Old Town. Uh, so the old Bean Cycle, been there 20 years. The current Bean Cycle. Okay, current for three more weeks, that is true. Wow. Uh, so They're going to be moving. They're going to move, yeah, down the street. Uh, but yeah, so starting October 1st, we will be the official leases of that space. And so Will you put Hutch Design Build kind of mostly in that space? Upper part kind of or the back in the upper and have all the furniture for furniture and whatever given given that this is fresh We don't know But yeah Have you been like looking in shopping and stuff or did something come into your landed in your lap? I mean, I'd say over the last year. So we've Definitely interacted with Realtors and stuff, the folks we trust on our team, and said, Hey, let's Yeah, we're busting at the seams at our current space. Yeah, and let's look and see what's out there, but we would As we looked at other spaces in on adjacent streets in Old Town, we looked at places in Loveland. We looked at places in South Fort Collins, in South Fort Collins. None of them just seemed to fit, and so when this one kind of fell in our lap, we were like, wow, this is a little, it really has where we were going to go right at the second. We were talking about 1, 800 square feet. Yeah, yeah, definitely, not double that, so. Yeah, 2, 750? Yeah. Is that what it is? I don't know. Well, it's got that mezzanine up there, too. Yeah, I think it's like 3, 200 something. Effectively lives a little bigger than that, so. I've always loved that building. It should be. It is beautiful. I feel really honored to be in that space. I, and going back to kind of the passion and vision behind Hutch, Uh, design build, it has been to impact the community, you know, I, I think that's something we are both really passionate about. Both the national scale, of course, like that's a passion for us and I can get more into. how we're leaning into that. But, uh, you know, I, I regularly will talk to people in our industry in this town. And this is not true. Maybe a better way to say this is, I'll regularly talk to people in the industry or in the workforce of the industry, whether it's in this town or whether it's abroad. And it's clear that an understandable that there's a lot of money motivation for people. Um, and it's expensive to, to live in America at this point in general. Uh, and, um, you know, I think we always approach it of we're more about people. Uh, you know, at the end of the day, people over profit really matters. And so we approach it that way. And so the opportunity to impact people in a greater way, uh, in a positive way, it feels like something that, um, yeah, we couldn't pass the opportunity to have. What, uh, if in your imagination, Allie, uh, what's, what's the ideal outcome a year from now or 18 months from now on that space, especially stopped totally guessing because it seems like I can't, that does feel how it feels right now. And for the last three years, uh, But, at the same time, I mean, yeah, for sure there are certain objectives that, of kind of where I see it heading. I mean, again, I feel really honored to have a space in Old Town, like, Old Town has been the dream for me. Like, the community is just amazing. The feels. It'll be cool to have you guys up here a lot more. I know! I'm so excited about that! You're just like six blocks away from my house. Yeah, yeah, that'll be awesome. I'm going to keep coming in there for coffee too. I'll be like, sorry, I can sell you a cabinet. We do brew a local coffee. And there, we'll brew you a cup. We, uh, I think the start, the starting point is, uh, doing a little bit of updating in there. Um, so you run these businesses. Like the furnishing will be a separate business, I assume. Mm-Hmm. completely. It won't be over, won't be. Design bill won't be tomorrow or anything. By down the road more means, yeah, we are, we are heading that way. But in the next year, we'll to open separate name, separate company, uh, you know, but still us cohabit how looks on paper, you know, whatever. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, still led by us. At the end of the day, I still intend to lead the, the creative direction of it, that kind of thing. Interesting. It has been like my. My dream for a long time. It just felt like a pipe dream and something that would never happen. Yeah. Yeah, and This opportunity just kind of fell in our laps. So here we are So initial will be improve the space get our offices moved there So our team can function out of there and we can warehouse out of there and then slowly Oh, there's good access in the back there too, too. At some speed, turn the dial forward to launch, uh, the furniture piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you, uh, did you talk with Adrian Jones, uh, about his, uh, cause he moved frameworks downtown. Oh, yeah, yeah. In part to help just be more visible. Yeah. And he's, I would say, a very comparable, uh, organization, but, uh, do you ask him if he's sold any houses because of that high rent district yet? Uh, you know, I mean, we definitely know several business owners downtown, and I think that we all know there's pros and cons, uh, to that journey of being down here, especially as rent and taxes increase, uh, so, but, you know, I think that, uh, Again, for us to be able to, uh, see the next stage of our vision, uh, implemented, to be able to be an impact to those around us. Well, and you can only hustle up so much business as you, Noah, no matter how many pairs of shoes you wear out, you know, but having a visible location like that, having, you know, people that, you know, People that come in from out of town as tourists because their kids are going to college here and four years later They're looking for a custom home builder and that first little cute shop where we bought that footstool Candle I don't know. Yeah like and I think that might even be worthwhile as a little bit of a design style just to build traffic, not just the furnishings, but also some of the little accessories. You can take a little slice out of what's the, not the cupboard, but the, the really cute interior stuff. Yeah. The everything, something. What is that? It's just everything, not change everything, but it's, it's on your block right there. It's got like garden supplies and things like that. There's a lot of cute shops. There are, there are. I will say, you know, I think that one thing I've learned is there's enough fish in the sea in this, in this community. Totally, totally. And, uh, and also each one has kind of its own different flair. And we would, you know. be distinctly different, I believe. Well, if you can be memorable right from early, right? Yeah. Yeah. My wheels are already turning on like what can be in their house that can also trigger their memory of, yeah, we can build your home. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um, what else? Anything else? Should we jump in the time machine? Um, are you ready for that? Need a potty break? Another margarita? No, we can jump back. Let's do it. It gets interesting. I think, um, and I think we'll come to focus really on your move to Fort Collins and some of those early adventures eventually, but, uh, we're going to jump in the time machine. Um, I don't even know if it's in the same town, but Noah, where were you in first grade? Uh, let's go to second grade. Second grade. Okay. Uh, no, I guess, I grew up in Georgia, but my parents, when I was in first grade, moved to Florida for one year, uh, before they separated, so first grade is the one year, uh. Okay. First grade was a tumultuous year. First grade was a tumultuous year. That was a rough one. Did you go back to Georgia then, I guess? Uh, so, yeah, I, uh, So, I grew up in a town of 200 or less. Oh wow. Blinking, blinking yellow light. Uh, one blinking yellow light. Yeah, yeah. Was all they had. And Jack and Ruby Bishop's, uh, general store. Uh, they were like 90 something when I moved. Or they felt like 90. No, no. They were like 90 something, uh, when I went to college. And, um, What kind of a kid were you? What kind of family? Uh, do you have other siblings? So, only child. Grew up with my mom and grandma. And, uh, yeah, I was Uh, I always thought of myself, I've gone back and forth as to whether I think I'm an introvert or extrovert. Uh, I've always enjoyed the introverted part of myself of like reading and having my own space. Part of that's probably because I didn't have any siblings and so no one ever disrupted my space. Uh, and my space was ever changing as I, you know, journeyed with both of my parents. Yeah, it was your, it was your Dad not too involved, you said mostly with your mom and your grandma? Uh, so I saw my dad for, from 7 to 9, I went and visited my dad for 48 hours every other weekend. Okay. And then when I turned 9, he moved to Kentucky and I saw him for a week in the summer and a week at Christmas. Wow. Uh, until I was 6. So you have other men role models in your world? Yeah. So I'm just, you seem to have become an achiever, you know, a little chip on your shoulder for being an awesome guy somehow. Thanks. Um, yeah, so there was one, uh, there were several families, uh, who lived in, um, really double eyed trailers on the dirt road, right down the road. And, uh, they were all related in these, you know, four different trailers. And those are the people that I grew up playing with. That was your adopted family. That was my adopted families. We. So, we hunted together, fish together, played sports together, and. We ate dinner. Ate dinner at their house. Sandwich night on Thursday night and everybody was trying to get that white bread with some grilled spam. Nice. I just bought four cans of spam yesterday. It's only 299 on sale at Safeway. Oh, good to know. I I left my spam at sandwich. If Jill hears this. If Jill hears this, she's gonna be like, why did you buy that? So, um. So, yeah, but I I think I an achiever. Uh, I always definitely was trying to be the straight A kid and uh, involved in everything. You didn't give your mom too much to worry about? No. And I think, uh, part of it was just probably trying to find value and meaning in life. So I found a lot in that. And so whether it was, yeah, this organization or that, or trying to be the best at something, sports was never really my thing. I'm, was never really my thing. Mom wasn't in sports, my dad wasn't in sports. Music was a big thing. My mom had her masters in music. She passed away a few years ago. My dad has his doctorate in music. Oh wow. So yeah, music was always a big deal and still is for me. Interesting. Uh, yeah. Okay. Let's, uh, let's, uh, set you down there for the moment and pick Allie up in that same, we'll go to second grade, too. Second grade. Second grade I had just moved to Minnesota. Okay. I was born in Texas. Okay. And so second grade we'd just moved to Rochester, Minnesota. And stayed there for a while, or? I was there until, uh, after freshman year of high school. Okay. So. You're welcome. Um, yeah, so we were in Minnesota. What was your family dynamic as far as siblings? What were your parents up to? I have two older brothers, quite a bit older than me. I was the bonus kid. So, um, they're 13 and 10, er, 13 and 8 years older than me. Oh, wow. Okay. And, uh, so, the year I started kindergarten, my oldest brother started college, and my middle brother The middle kid, he started high school. Right, right. So. Interesting. So I. So you're effectively an only child. I kind of. Yeah. In function with uncles. Yeah, kind of. That you call brothers. I mean, they for sure got their. I'm sure there are more brothers now. Yeah. That you're all growing up with. And they for sure got their fair share, especially the one closest to me of pastoring me. Right, right. And you know, all those. Yeah, well that's what girls need. All those good brotherly things. Sisters need anyway. Yeah. Um. And what took your family to Minnesota? Uh, my dad's job. So my dad's in ministry. Okay. So, uh, kind of supervisory role in Baptist ministry. So, uh, so he was the executive director for Minnesota and Wisconsin Baptist, cause there's not a ton of Baptists in Minnesota, so you have to combine states. I understand, I understand. Southern Baptists too, yeah, so. Basically transplants from Texas and Georgia and stuff like that. Perfect, yeah. So, yeah. My dad would kind of fill in and preach, so we'd travel all over Minnesota and Wisconsin. He'd always be like, Stand up! My daughter! Here she is! And that would make me wave at everyone at all these churches. He still does it to this day, by the way. If we're ever with him and he's preaching, he's like, Look at all my family here! Rochester is a pretty nice town, but also that area just south of there, the, the Oh, Decorah, Iowa, and all that, uh, the, uh, What do they call that, uh, the ridge country, or whatever they call it. That's where Jill's family's from. I don't know if you guys have talked about that. Oh, nice. I didn't know that. No, we haven't. Yeah, just, uh, Houston, Minnesota. Oh, okay. Cool. So just maybe 60, 70 miles away from Rochester. I, we left right before I started to drive, so I will say I'm geographically stunted in Minnesota. Fair enough. And moved to? We moved back to Texas. Okay. So we moved to the Dallas area. Where the Baptists are. Where the Baptists are. My dad was the assistant executive director. Uh, of Texas. And then you went to a hometown school, which happened to be where Noah went to? We went, no. I'm just guessing here. Did you say Baylor? Is that Dallas? Baylor, that's in Waco. Okay. Gotcha. So, it's like an hour and a half. Alright. Is that right? I don't know. I'm just guessing away here. Yeah, good job. Who's older? I am older. You're older. I'm two years older than Noah. So, we'll actually stick with you. Uh huh. So, when it came to what's next after high school, what was that for you? Uh, so I, um, was really involved in Young Life in high school and one of my Young Life leaders, so to back up, my parents had gone to Baylor. One of my Young Life leaders, I was kind of like, uh, okay, that didn't mean a ton to me at 18. Um, but Baylor had always been part of my life. Um, but then one of my young life leaders had, had gone to Baylor, so it was suddenly cool, you know, as, as things go when you're 18. Um, and then he also got me involved with the church that he was involved with. And so, uh, as well as some other people. young life kids as well. Like not Baptist? Not Baptist. Non denominational. Oh, scandalous. Scandalous. Used to be Baptist. Former Baptist. Yeah, yeah. Beyond Baptist. Beyond Baptist. I like that. That's funny. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I really grew in my faith in high school and honestly wanted to be in Waco at Baylor to be able to go to that church and be a part of that community. Okay. Interesting. All right. That's how I wound up there. Um, so it's a great school though. I'm so thankful that I went there. I would love for our kids to go there one day. Alright, that's cool. And Noah, uh, how did that look for you? I mean, I'm from a town of 100 people, roughly, and so I can, have some affinity. I've spent a lot of time in trailer houses, both in my own growing up years and at my friends places. So yeah, though it'd be a much colder and less humid in North Dakota, usually than Georgia. Sure. Yes. Yeah. So I guess, uh, those years growing up, uh, so we actually lived on, uh, the family farm that my family had built. And, um, so 200 acres riding four wheelers around, this will come back later. Huntin squirrels. Uh, hunt squirrels. That's right. Uh, deer, deer. Yeah. Yeah. So lots of hunting, uh, fishing and just being out in nature, et cetera. And so everything was country. Uh, so at 16 though, uh, my mom had gone through a couple of different marriages and divorces in the meantime, but she married a guy who lived in Texas and, um, said, Hey, we're going to move to Texas. And I was like, no, you're moving to Texas. I'm not going to Texas. Uh, and so I really wanted to stay. Uh, but my mom, uh, thankfully saw the bigger picture, uh, of how my life would be impacted if I moved out of the town that she spent 50 years in almost all her life in. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And so we moved to East Texas, uh, into a gated community, uh, with a 20 golf course, with a 27 whole golf course and private club change of, uh, socioeconomic, uh. Connections there. Yeah, so how did she meet this fellow? Uh, actually, uh, this is a fascinating story actually, uh, because I asked the same question. Um, so my mom, one of the things she did in her free time, uh, was, uh, she liked playing online bridge in Yahoo game rooms. Okay. Okay. So, She played a ton of bridge, uh, and was really great at it. Uh, and so she had this partner that they'd play like every week and sometimes multiple times a week in these, uh, and just mop the floor with people in these game rooms. And she was older than my mom and pretty old. And then eventually she. Uh, was, uh, near her deathbed. And so one of her wishes was to meet my mom. So my mom flew out to Texas and her son, uh, picked her up from the airport and brought her to meet him. And that's the person my mom ended up marrying. Fascinating. So yeah. So while, uh, but here we are in East Texas in this gated community. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, there was Baylor connections with him and, um, The truth is that, um, I don't, I don't know, I don't share the story a lot, but I, um, I had all A's. I was a great student, had this massive extracurricular record. Yeah. You know, state, state medals, all these other things. Debate was life. Um, and all of these things and I applied to all of these schools and actually the only one that accepted me was Valer. No shit. Um, I don't understand how out of all of the ones with all A's and this great thing. You did okay on your SAT, ACT. I did great, yeah. the transfer credits and that kind of thing. Yeah, I think the transfer between the schools kind of messed it up a little bit because they were, um, But, but I mean, a wild thing. So, so I was like, well I guess I'm going to Baylor. Uh, so, uh, I've been, I'm a pretty all or nothing guy, so I'm like, alright, I'm going to the camp in the summer, the pre, the pre camp. Uh, I went to the pre camp, line camp, and was like Mr. Line Camp, and was like yelling and doing sick em bear claws on top of tables in the lunchroom and stuff. And so we got to the beginning of Baylor. And here's introverted, amazing Allison over here working along the way. Oh, I would never, like, we are so opposite. I, like, barely made it to move in day because I had to make it to my Dave Matthews band concert on move in day instead. And I was like Oh, I was like there as early as possible. Ha! Uh, so ended up Doing the bare minimum. So you guys, like, met, like, first day almost? No, we didn't, actually. Not really. I don't think this would have worked out if we hadn't met back then, to be honest. Well, the funny, yeah, the funny college journey for me was that, you know, with a mom with a double masters and my dad with a doctor, I was a doctor. Well, in music too. Had you had any faith in music? Conversation in your life to speak of, Nor, or was it significant? Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So I grew up in the church, um, and dad actually still works for churches and, um, yeah, I grew up going, um, I was, uh, I was a Method Baptist. So it went between the Methodist and the Baptist church. Oh, thanks. Um, so went between those two, um, um, With my grandma, I remember sitting and eating weird tasting mints out of her old purse. So it wasn't foreign to you at least. I mean it was a big, big involvement for Allie. It was why I asked, cause she, you know, her whole family tree had come that way. Yeah, so, uh, so it was definitely an important piece. I think I didn't know, um, Um, what it looked like to really have a faith journey, uh, until really I moved to Texas. So when I moved to Texas, I, um, got involved in this church there that really helped me for those couple of years, the last two years in high school. So I moved when I was 16 and those last two years as a part of a great church in East Texas and had some great friends and that really, uh, so that was definitely an attractive piece of Baylor. Um, as I came in. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Get involved in a church there, uh, and it just so happened to be the same church. But my, my one funny college story, cause my college journey doesn't go very far is that my freshman year, I, so with all of my standing on tables and everything, I decided I want to run, cause politics, which we can talk about later, I always had an interest. And I was like, I want to be freshmen. I want to be freshman class president. People were like, you should be. So I stood on every table and handed out flyers and did everything I possibly could. And I became freshman class president. And then went on to be the most outstanding and won all these things, and then I dropped out. Uh, so Completely? Completely, uh, at the end of the year. After first year? After my first year. Like, tell me about the motivation there. Like, what Mixed motivation. Uh, you know, I, uh Did you burn yourself too hot? Like I probably did. He did. Fly too close to the sun? He did. I did. You know, I think that I kind of woke up One year later in the college and was like, What is life? What are we doing? Yeah. Kind of existential. Yeah, kind of a little existential crisis. My mom over spring break of that year and, uh, the person she'd married had a big falling out and decided they were going to separate and she was going to move back to Georgia. Um, looking at this 60 something thousand dollar a year bill at Baylor and thinking that's crazy. I can't let my mom take that on. Well, she couldn't. Right. Right. So. And you didn't want to finance it. Yeah, and she was trying to take care of herself, and so, um, you know, I, I kind of just decided I'm going to have a pause moment here, uh, and see what happens, and it was definitely a great decision. Um, I wish that my degree, I wish that I ended up graduating from Baylor, although I went on to get my bachelor's and my master's, but, um. From a less prestigious, uh, school. Yeah, organization. Yes, but Yeah with a newborn baby Okay, so let's let me pick it up back with you Allie Did you actually you attended Baylor as well as a social work major And yep, and that's what my kind of with a notion towards using that skill set ministry still at that time or didn't know necessarily? Yeah, not necessarily. I think I always, some of the things that were appealing to me about that meant that church in Waco is it was really globally minded and that has always been really interesting to me. Um, I debated between social work or anthropology. Like I just love geeking out on people and the differences and like, you know, like any of those documentaries about like a subsect of people. Like I love those things. So, um, yeah. You would love my job actually, this podcast host thing. I bet I would actually. I suspect you would. I bet I would. Um, yeah. So that was more the motivation of like, I really do love helping people and connecting with people and Hearing people's story, you know, uh, and I love connecting people to resources. I think that was what I had always thought. Again, more of the big picture thing, uh, macro social work rather than micro. Yeah, yeah. Macro is kind of more like the overall. How do you change societal trends so that people don't need as much help? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Uh, rather than the band aid fix. So, I would say in a lot of ways, I'm doing that in my day to day life, too. Well, I mean, in some strange, like, one of the biggest things a person could, you know, Do, uh, a culture could do to fix it, to heal itself is to repair the challenge of fatherlessness. And you know, Noah, your life is really kind of not just with your mom and dad, but also, you know, moving to Texas and that's a, whatever, three year stint and then another chapter. Yeah. Um, just that instability of that is an interesting dynamic at play in the conversation. Yeah. Yeah, and I think social work was appealing to me from the stance of wanting to highlight, like, The value in each individual person. Like I'm really, that's a huge thing to me. Like, yes, you may have made all these poor choices. Like I have an inherent, like, I believe all people are good. Until you cross me and then I'm like, okay, maybe not. But, uh, but I will say I, I believe the best probably to a fault. Um, and, uh, yeah, that was really appealing to me. The ability to have. the privilege to step into somebody's like darkest moment and like show them the way out or at least just give them like hope for a day, you know, or a moment. Yeah, that's fair. Um, so you, what was the name of this church that you both were attending? Antioch Community Church. Antioch Community Church. So that's where, I presume, you probably met? That is where. Cause you Well, actually we met at a coffee shop. Okay. We did. Shout out Common Grounds. Ha ha ha ha. Um, we, uh, We met each other the summer after he dropped out, uh, is when we met each other. So I was living down the street from this coffee shop that was kind of like the hangout place for Baylor students. So it was my go to study place, I was taking summer classes. And he was bumming it out on the, like Yeah, so I was gonna ask, like, did you get a job or anything, Noah? Like He did. He did. But he also hung out at the coffee shop at every waking time. Yeah, I got a job. I, uh, started waiting tables at a Mexican restaurant in Waco, and it's super fun. Everyone should be in the service industry at some point in their life. Yeah, you learn a lot for sure. How was your mental state at that time? Did you feel like, cause you crushed it. And then you, like, I hate to say it this way, but you kind of made a selfless decision to withdraw from that engagement. Um, but he had to feel difficult at least emotionally. Uh, yeah, you know, I think that, um, I was definitely just trying to figure things out. What's next for me now. And I think that I did get a lot of energy. I think whatever I do, I put my best energy into it. In some ways that translated to hey, well if I'm going to wait tables, I might as well be the best waiter, and so then I Became a trainer of waiters, and then real quickly they were like hey, why don't you go do catering, and they were like Hey, would you like to manage these catering events, and then they were like hey Would you like to be a manager at the restaurant, and that's where I said What's the requirement for that and how much do you get paid? No, thanks. This is not for me, right? Uh, so, and I leaned into the church a lot in that. I think that You were already part of the church, like, during your freshman year? Yeah, during my freshman year, I got involved in that church. It was one of the extracurricular things. One of the extracurricular activities. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, uh, so I, I volunteered there and just looked for opportunities to serve and help others, and, um, Let's go back to the coffee shop, Allie. Mm hmm. So, like, He was chillin there a lot, you were chillin there a lot, and then eventually you met? Or like, what was that first interaction? So we, we had a mutual connection because of church. So we knew each, knew of each other. We didn't really know each other. He was definitely friend zoned for a long time. I was a senior, he was like a sophomore, and I was like, wait. Oh, interesting. Okay. Would've been a sophomore if you hadn't dropped out. Yeah, and a dropout. And I was like, please. But. Don't call me. I'll call you. Yeah, yeah. Um. But yeah, he, he Yeah, grew on me. Um, no, I mean, it's nice hanging out with men that are in love with you as a female. I was friends, we were definitely friends at first, like we definitely started as friends and, uh, then we were not friends. We were more than friends. So, uh, we started like looking for each other at the coffee shop or like, you know, hanging out. Studying, I was studying extra hard, not really studying, you know, uh, and he was there reading all the time. What were you reading, Noah? Who knows. Supernatural Wizardry. No, I'm just kidding. Like, uh, I mean, honestly, that's a Oh, I do, I like reading. Yeah, or, like, were you, you were exploring what you were going to try with your next chapter, I assume, and stuff like that. So, like, I don't know. Yeah, in that moment, I was going back between basically, uh, like, Christian living, uh, personal, like, development books and, like, really weird philosophers from, like, Slovenia. Interesting. That I didn't necessarily understand what they were saying. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but I was trying to figure it out. Had you, uh, had you had a serious girlfriend before? I did. I had a couple serious girlfriends along the way. And, uh, one of them went to Baylor. Um, and that didn't work out. And went on to live their life. Um, and then one of them in high school. Uh, as I was there. Yeah. Not that it's any of my business. I'm just curious about where you were at in your evolution as a man at that point in time. Yeah. And the one in high school, I'm thankful for that journey. I have a great friend out of that relationship that we try to stay connected, uh, who married her sister. And then also that's what really helped me between those people introduced me to the church in a greater way. So that was super helpful. So, Allie, for you, what was the, like, there was almost like a moment, it seemed like, in your mind, when you said you let him out of the friend zone into something more, or what was that evolution? Oh my gosh. The pumpkin carving. No, the, um, concert we went to. That was after pumpkin carving. Well, pumpkin carving, you weren't on my radar then, maybe. I don't know. I don't remember. Well, that's what I asked you. We've been together a long time. And we have different tastes. It's been almost 20 years. stories. Um, I had an assignment. I was taking like a, like a, whatever little music credit I had to get that where you had to attend a orchestra. And, uh, I had procrastinated, needed to get, get it in like in the next day. And I was like, well, the only orchestra concerts in Dallas. Which is like, again, like two hours away. And, and also like really expensive for a college student. And, um, but I didn't want to go alone. And so Noah went, and my roommate went. Oh yeah, because in the church you were part of. It was a big push for, uh, basically dating with friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't feel like it was I didn't think it was a date. Okay, uh Basically a chaperone in all situations where We definitely went on our own dates, too, but yeah. So we went to this orchestra concert, where Allison tried to impress me, but then got pooped on by a bird. Well, or Noah tried to impress me, and, because I had made some off handed comment about some guy who had, like, directed with his hand. Not that I thought that was cool. And then Noah proceeded to, like, direct the orchestra. So I was like, who's this fool over here directing? But, I mean, I think at the end of the day, like, we, opposites attract, we are opposites, we clicked, we have the same values, like, uh, also the southern roots, I think we identified on those things, and then we, yeah, we just clicked, we ultimately are, and still to this day, friends. Best friends. That's good. Yeah. Um, how long before you made it official? Uh, so You're the timeline guy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we dated, uh, we started dating in that October. You were like, graduating, right? Like, in the spring and stuff, maybe moving away. I was in my, like, capstone thing. They were like, oh, what are you doing next? I applied to grad school in, uh, Seattle. Oh. And I was gonna go there, and then I had And then I was like, but there is this guy that's here. And so I decided to stay and we got engaged soon after that. We were, yeah, we dated for 11 months. We're engaged for three. It was quick. That was the way to go. That was the culture that we were in. Yeah, for sure. You're supposed to get a diploma and a ring. So, um, actually we'll come back to, uh, the church there a little bit. And cause I really want to hear about like, Was it just sprung from nowhere thing? I got to interact with some of the Antioch church folks here in Fort Collins during the COVID crisis, where they were kind of leaders in some of the support programs. And I was impressed by the culture I saw. So for what it's worth, are you still part of it here? We're not. So we, uh, Yes, we were apart for, uh, that's ultimately what brought us here. Yeah. In 2015. Uh, but the short answer to your question is no. Okay, well, we'll come back to that. We can go to a longer answer. Yeah, no, we can, we might stumble on a longer answer, but uh, So, like, what's that look like? You're, you're sticking around, you're getting married, you're, are you waiting tables, or managing the restaurant yet, Noah? Or where did your trajectory take you during those 11 months while you're, uh, Yeah, so I kept dating and engaged and, uh, kept working at the restaurant. Um, you know. At the end of the day, I was a good employee. So I mean, as I started transitioning out there, I took some shifts just to help them help myself, um, started working at the church, uh, part time, uh, and then ultimately started working there full time, uh, when we were engaged. So, oh, wow. Okay. So that became really your current career transition. It did. And in a lot of ways I just fell into it. Um, we've reflected a lot on it. And in a lot of ways I was. Uh, as I was wondering, wandering, uh, wondering and wandering, uh, yes, uh, it, it provided a really safe, uh, and stable landing place for me with people who cared about me and invested in me. And how big was the organization by this time? Yeah. So when we started, when we started getting involved in college, there was about 2000 people in the church. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and then by the time we left. In 2015, there was, through a large capital campaign and expansions, 5, 000 plus people. Dang! So this is a megachurch. It was. Kind of thing. So yeah. So saw it through that growth and it was a little different twist. Like, so Alma on my team here comes from a very conservative kind of Hispanic oriented Mexican church. And they do that. Like there's like these formal, you know, your, your boyfriend in this status and you go on like kind of chaperone dates and things like that for, you know, and if you don't, you're not engaged for five years, you're engaged for six months or although it's kind of, I would say kind of pragmatic. Uh, realizations about the nature of man, but far more, I guess, thoughtful. A lot of times the megachurches are like, you know, Jesus is my boyfriend and we're not going to call you on any of your stuff too much because that might keep you from joining. Uh, this seems like a very rapid growth. High engagement kind of a model. Yes. Which is pretty unusual. Yes. Like they're just trying not to ask too much of their constituents, but at least you guys were highly engaged and I bet most people were. It was, yeah. I'd say a lot of people were. Yeah. I'd say the, uh, it's all a funnel. Uh, that's not to be a negative statement. Right. It's to be a truism about it, which is. Uh, you know, big funnel, uh, outward facing funnel, uh, narrow fundamental thoughts within as you get lower in the funnel or higher in the funnel, depending on which direction you're I understand what you're saying. Higher, yeah. So, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Ellie, you seem like you might want to say something about that, as I was turning that corner. So, Noel gets a job for the church. You don't go to grad school. I do not. I stay there. We, uh, get married. I started a job as a social worker, as a school social worker. All right. And, uh, um, Waco has a pretty strong division between, um, Between socioeconomics, uh, okay. Baylor itself is pretty affluent, right. Um, but Waco at large, at least at that time, that was pre Chip and Joanna Gaines. Mm, I see. Uh, because Waco's not oil country, I guess, of Texas kind. No. So what is Waco? Like, what's, what is Waco, what's the economy outside of, you know, sucking on Baylor's scraps? Yeah. Um, I mean, Baylor's a big piece of it. Baylor is a big piece of it. Yeah. I mean, there's. Other than that, it's just a small town. So is that whole Chip and Joanna games, like Oh, it's changed. Foundational, too. I mean No, but how about you guys story? Oh, yeah. Like, if I can think of two of those homebuilder people that you guys remind me the most of, it's kind of you. That's funny. Or them. In the same town, right? Yeah, I mean So, we knew one another. We knew them, yeah. Oh, you did? Okay. Were they in your church? They were. Okay. Yep. Yeah. So, um Uh, people who worked on some of their projects are the ones who worked on our house when we did our flip. Oh, interesting. Um. They were just taking off when we left. Interesting. Yeah, when we left Waco. Yeah, and if we say nothing else about them, although we can, they are amazing. Do they know you? Can we tag them in, uh, in my Tag me. So you can get a few more views. Yeah. Try, you know Yeah, maybe. I'm sure Chippendwick and his followers are gonna like Snoop out the Loco Experience podcast in Fort Collins. They've done a great job of insulating themselves in the way that they needed to to hold the values that they held dearly. Yeah, that's cool. Good idea. So yeah, they're great folks. Yeah, I mean, I think who you see them on their public, uh, persona is who they are. They're pretty authentic it seems like they're, yeah. Yeah. I was in Mops with Joanna, you know, those kind of things, so it, I will say it was a very surreal experience to have someone you know, Yeah, you walk in, you're, you're sitting at a table talking about your kids together one day and then a couple years later you walk in. She's in a cardboard cutout. And she's got a cardboard cutout in Target and you're like, whoa, what the hell happened? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Pretty wild. So, yeah. So, that kind of continues, uh, like, this is kind of a stable season for a while. When, when did that baby come along that you were talking about? Yeah. She came along, uh, about, oh, Noah's the timeline. I should defer to you a year and a half after we were married into that. January, 2009 is when we were married. She was born in March, 2011. So that's two years. Yeah. And then, um, did you like say full time mom for a while? Yeah, I did. I was a stay at home mom when Grace came along. And then, um, basically until. I kind of changed careers to the design side of things. Oh, okay, okay. For your own shop, or did you work for somebody else's design then? Uh, for my own. Started in LLC, did contract work. Interesting. Went to school, that whole thing. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. Okay. And then, uh, Um, is it time to like move to Fort Collins soon? Uh, when was that? Yeah. I mean, throughout, throughout all that journey, I went back and got my bachelor's, went back and got my master's. And yeah, cause you got like a MBA almost kind of thing, right? Yeah. All while working at the church full time and yeah, like I said, having a young child or Yeah, I was gonna say a second one. Uh, so yeah, throughout those years, as I mentioned, did several other crazy things. Helped out with this, uh, publishing company. Yeah, you said the Bible Project podcast? Well, that was a whole different thing, yeah, so. Other entrepreneurism? Just other entrepreneurial ideas, yeah. Worked for a publishing company with the trade shows. Spoke for them. Did some stuff. Um, mostly about ministry oriented stuff. Okay. Um, that related to books that were being written. Oh, so not totally different from like the group publishing or something like that? Nope, similar, similar. Yeah, so. That was fun. Um, yeah, basically had, uh, uh, a friend who lived in Indonesia and he, uh, developed a, uh, translation and video creation company. Uh, and so, yeah, it was able to help, uh, him with some different stuff along the way. And it was super fun. Uh, just, uh, Doing stuff with individuals on the other side of the world. Uh, that's not my, it was never my normal day to day. Uh, just seeing people's talent, being able to help something that was in another language. Uh, but anyway, uh, just random fun stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Judging some debate tournaments, you know. Oh, interesting. You taught a class at the community college. I did teach a class. We were also on ministry paycheck and I was a stay at home mom. Right. And we were making ends meet. Right. If Noah will hustle and make it, make it work. Yeah, yeah. I actually didn't, uh, I was in speech in high school and then I took a debate class in college. Uh, and the debate team coach was my partner. He's a professor and he was like, dude, you gotta be on our team and I was like, dude, nerds are on the debate team. We were. I'd probably be a lot better off if I'd actually been on that debate team instead of uh, you know, just debating myself about what to do next. Um, so, so yeah, so you working for the church, stringing together, you know, uh, living frugally, obviously. Um, and then. Like, Antioch got it, like, was this, did they have multiple locations already? They do, yeah. Okay. There's probably a hundred locations. Waco wasn't the OG. It is the OG. It is. It was the, the mothership. Okay. Uh, and, uh, I don't know if they'd call themselves the original gangster or god damn it. Look on the edge. Yeah, the OG. Um, uh, yeah, and there's probably a hundred plus locations now throughout the world. Uh, so a number of churches that got planted in the U. S. Yeah, yeah. And so, really, uh, every couple years I, uh, I would say, you know, I really started full time there in the 2000s, and then by the time I got to, uh, almost even before Grace, I was like, all right, let's, uh, what, what am I going to go do? Right. Uh, and then there was always like a It's a good placeholder job that keeps being engaged and whatever. Yeah, and I mean, I learned so much. It was great. I always tell people I I'll tell people, they'll be like, so what did you actually do? And I'll say, Oh, like kids and family ministry. And they're like, Oh, that's cute. So like goldfish and stuff and like coloring pages. And I was like, no, like, like four services, 400 volunteers, five interns, a staff of 20, like it was a little, a little different, more complex than that. Thousand thousand kids on a Sunday. It's a little different than goldfish and coloring sheets. Although we did that too. Although we did that too. Made baby's face straight. The dolls. You just gotta shake them enough, their faces straighten right out. Quit crying, kid. Um, anyway, so, every couple years, that I was like, man, I, I've got to do something different. This is not what I'm made to do. Uh, and that's ultimately, I feel like I found some fulfillment in doing my master's, et cetera. Uh, but by 2015, I was like, all right, I'm done. We are done. And so, uh, there was actually an opportunity, perhaps the publishing company in Colorado, uh, in the Springs. So I took a trip up here with the idea of visiting them, uh, and interviewing for a job. And basically the guys in Waco were like, look, you should at least come check out this church up in Fort Collins. It's one of our church plants. They could really use your talents. Just go check it out. And so we were kind of like, whatever, we'll do it. Uh, so fast forward, we came in here to Buzz in and buzz out, and ended up feeling like, wow, this is the place for me to be. This town is way nicer than Colorado Springs. That too. That too, it was cool. And that's when we went to Old Town. We did, actually. We did. Uh, no, but I mean, we had a great kinder connection with the folks who still lead the church there today, who are awesome. They're great people. And we Who's the pastor there, if I may? Uh, Chris. Okay. And his wife, Blair. I don't think I've met either of them, but yeah. So yeah, they're great. And we had an amazing connection right off the bat and yeah, it felt like we were supposed to be here. So six weeks later we packed up everything and moved. Uh, so, cause that's what we do, I guess. Yeah, and it was good for them, uh, in Waco, and then good for us, and, uh, yeah, uh, that puts us here in 2015, so. We're starting to get closer, and then you, you work with another construction company after a bit. You ran for city council. That's true. Maybe we'll put that in the politics section in the next segment, cause I, I gotta go pee. Yeah. That's great. We'll come back right after work. Okay. Sounds good. Alright, I'll do it. We are back. Wow, that was refreshing. The bathroom's refreshing with the margarita. Both. Both. Allie, your margarita's not even gone yet. Your first one. I know. Me and Noah are finishing up our second. I know. I'm a typical nurse the drink for sure. Well, you're on muscle relaxers too. I am. So. Yeah. Pulled my bag out. Yeah. So, um. Um, you know, we kind of, we didn't really get into the transition out of that career journey, but we can kind of address it in the faith family politics segments as well as that, uh, uh, Noah, that one of the first times I heard her name was when you were running for city council. So we haven't talked about that, but that has a home too. So, um, do you have a preference on which of the, the segments to start with? You pick. You said you pre planned this. I said we talked about it. Let's go to faith. All right. Let's go to faith. Cause my Yeah, that's an easy segue. You spent so much time kind of in ministry and moved up here and then you mentioned that you were no longer with that church and things. And so I'd like to give you an opportunity to say terrible things about them if you want to. No, just talk to me about, I guess, that transition out. Was that mutually agreed and how did you find, I mean, you, you went right from there into contracting, right Noah? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I can kick it off and, and paint a picture and you can add details. Okay. If you put your arm in his hand, then that means, no, stop there. Uh, yeah, I think that, you know, as I said, the whole journey for years was how am I going to get out of ministry and, you know, no, uh, no harm, no foul to anyone doing it. And nobody didn't think that, but, uh, it just was like, Hey, well, there's a great opportunity here. And there, and there was. Um, And I'm so thankful for learned a lot from those Learned so much. So much about leadership, about people, about um, How big was Antioch here in Fort Collins when you arrived? Uh, probably like 200 people. And it seemed like it grew quite a bit during that season after it. Yeah, I feel like there was probably 400 when we left. Okay, yeah. Uh, so, So you saw a season of growth in that regard too? Yeah, and We stepped out of leadership in 2020. Uh, yeah, so we stayed in leadership for a while, even after we got into construction. Just like volunteer. Uh, but basically, I think when I came here, though, I knew this, and Chris and I had an understanding with one another to the best that we knew, you know, not knowing what life would hold. Sure. Uh, much less a pandemic that would eventually come. Um, I wasn't there then, but nonetheless, um, yeah. Yeah. And it really said, Hey, I want to help grow the church, implement some systems and use my talents there. I want to help raise, fundraise money and use my skills there. And then I want to help establish the church by acquiring a building. And so by the, by the spring of 2019, I had done all of those things and then not to say they were perfect by any means, uh, but we were able to acquire the building on Drake. Is that the one on Drake? I don't know if we've talked about that, but that was, The, the church we go to, The Crossing, I went there for the first six weeks. And they announced that we were merging our church into the mountain range church over at Tim, uh, Horsetooth and Shields. Yeah. So I've been in your, in that building a few times. We did renovate it. Yeah, it was, it needed it. Anyway, keep going. I'm sorry to interrupt. Oh, you're great. So it's a cool looking building from the outside, actually. Yeah, I think it's a great, yeah. So, so yeah, so I think that, so mostly you just accomplished most And I did finish the very end of my, I finished the very end of my master's after moving here. Uh, so that was like, okay, I need to achieve that. Um, and then we can jump into it in a little bit. But the running for office piece did help obviously or prime obviously expand kind of the connections I had and just my own mindset into like, um, okay, wow, I'm really enjoying this. This is what I've been trying to do be in this business sphere, et cetera. And so just to have, just to be moved from my normal world into that world was like, Oh, okay. Um, I'm feeling like I'm coming alive and really liking this. That was one of the things I was thinking when you were talking about, like even coming up to Colorado Springs to tour this publishing company and different things and you had, you know, your education had progressed. You obviously were quite the leader and stuff, but you were still really playing small ball. You know, kind of relying on those existing, established connections and paths and stuff. And so that, that city council run and even just exposure to probably a much more dynamic marketplace of ideas and people here in Northern Colorado than what you'd experienced, uh, really allowed you to turn that page. Not to criticize you for playing small ball, but that was my thought at the time was like, you know, think bigger. Don't go and work for a Christian organization. Publishing company in Colorado Springs, you got like more than that. Not that they couldn't use it, you know, there's always a balance of giving back. And yeah, totally. No, right there with you. So anyway, and it felt in a lot of ways, uh, back then we only, he stayed in those roles, I think, out of a faith perspective to what you're called to or what you've signed up for that kind of thing. More than a, this is what. I mean, Noah's always been a big thinker to always go in for the next thing. And, uh, yeah, I think we've always known eventually we'd wind up in this sphere. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, really as we transitioned out, you know, I think a lot of people, I mentioned the pandemic because a lot of people's faith journeys are very interrupted by the pandemic. Yeah. Um, and, uh, yeah, I think that for us, that, really just allowed an opportunity to actually reflect, get out of our actual roles. Not just be running to the next event. Yeah. Yeah. The next obligation in some capacity. Yeah. And have a space and place to reflect on what do we actually think, believe, you know, what is, what, what did we do out of duty and obligation or normalcy versus choice? And, um, Yeah. And really, I think an even like, uh, bigger picture view of it is, and what does our life need in it in this moment and in the years and moments ahead? Um, not to say years, maybe even just weeks and months. Your mom died. I had, um. Early in the pandemic? Uh, end of 2020. At the end of 2020. Of COVID? Uh, no. Okay. Super unexpectedly though. Yeah. COVID definitely played a factor in the hospital being overrun and we're not really getting care, but, you know, it's another story for another day. I know they tried their best and I met them and they were amazing. But, uh, yeah, so I think 2020, we finally got out of it and got to start reflecting. But then my mom dying really sent 2021 into its own world. And so, you know, in a lot of ways, uh, until just a couple of years ago, it's like we finally got to, uh, reflect and be like, okay, what do we really think and feel here? Uh, and the point of what I was saying is what do we really need in our life? What do our kids need? What kind of support do we need? How can we make contributions with our talents and uh, to other people to make an impact because we value that piece of the church. And what of that has to be done within the construct of modern Christendom versus way we do it. For a while I, people would say, where do you go to church? And I'd say, on my porch. Uh, and then that's still a little bit of my answer today is, uh, um, yeah, I go to church on my porch and, you know, it's not to say that we don't value it. So you haven't re engaged with a faith community here after that departure? Yeah, we haven't and don't have a plan to right now. And, um Are you kind of like, Myth on organized religion in general? Like, yeah, talk to me about that, Allie, if you don't mind. Yeah, I, uh, no, I think it has so many pieces of it that are super valuable. And that I miss. Yeah, yeah. Uh, it, there are just some things I gotta work through. Like, you know, a little PTSD, a little, like, knee jerk reaction on some of the, uh, The things that I, you know, and I will own that I put myself in, in those, like, constructs of what was duty and what was expected of me, and, um. Years ago, um, our Rotary Club recruited, and I think it might have been both Val and Miles from Old Town Media became members of our Rotary Club for a season, and we had so many website needs, and technology needs, and da, da, da, da. And they just took them all on and did them and we ground them right up and they left 18 months later. Oh no. You know, cause, and I'm sensing just a little bit of that parallel there. Like they, they leaned on you and leaned on you and leaned on you and appreciated some, but the leaning was a lot heavier and it wasn't just you, it was anybody who would willingly be Yeah, and I think, uh, and that's hard sometimes. Yeah, and I think it's hard, uh, we still grieve those friendships that we're, have not really carried on from leaving. Um, and we, yeah, we, For sure feel that's honestly one thing we're excited about being in the old town area because I'm like, we're going to have community again. We haven't even gotten to the fact that we live kind of on a rural space in Loveland. Um, so not a ton of neighbors. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I think we, there are aspects of it I love and I think that are super vital. And then there's things that from our particular journey that have really hurt us. And yeah. We're working through. Still. Fair enough. Fair enough. Has your faith itself been shaken? Like, would you still claim, uh, like Jesus is cool kind of thing? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I'm, I'm definitely, uh, would call myself a Christian still, like pray regularly. I think my, the black and white has become more gray for me, but it has been evident, I think I've lived too much. Life in faith with God. Yeah, yeah. To not believe in a higher power. And in Well, and a person has to wonder what, like, you were meant to learn from or grow from even in this experience, right? Right. At least that's how I wonder about things sometimes. Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, I mean, I, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like, I definitely, um, for sure still have faith. Well, I have to think that your kiddos are kind of approaching an age where you're like, should they have a Sunday school or things? Yeah. Or maybe not. I don't know. Totally. I mean, I know that's when a lot of parents start to think about it. Their kids start asking those hard questions. Oh, let's just ask, ask your teacher as high school instead. And in some ways, like our previous experience prepared us really well to talk through the, through those things with them. And I think I've really. Well, but there's nothing like learning together with other kids. Exactly. I have re embraced not knowing and being okay not knowing. I think we, the culture we were in before felt very like, this is the way it is, this We have the Bible. We know how it is. And I, I think we've, um, we've gotten to a place where we're like, yes. And like, there's more and, um, and we want our kid, especially our kids, the ages they are at, um, we want them to question and to have those tough conversations with them and, uh, to choose their own, their own ideals rather than kind of throw them in Sunday school and say, Teach them what to, you know, that kind of thing. So from a faith part of the conversation, at least, you're just kind of open, healing, and along for the ride without any real obligatory plans yet? Yeah, I mean, I think, again, I think I'm, we would say we're Christians. We are not, you know, The just yeah, the the definition of like what that actually looks like. Yeah. Yeah has I think I have a much more libertarian view of Oh sure what that is and what you were raised with probably being you know Baptist to yeah, can I transition? Yeah Otherwise, I wouldn't offer do that joint Know anything to add on that faith conversation element there Um, I mean I could talk for hours on this. I'm sure you could, yeah. Yeah, I mean I think the simple thing is, just reinforcing that How do you get your, your God juice these days? Like, do you study, self study at all, or Bible study? Podcast or any of those kind of things. Um, like do you get little doses? Yeah, I was gonna say, I think the church still has a, I'll answer the question at the back half of statement. There's two I I'm good at asking two questions, Yeah. I think that at the end of the day, the church does have a great place for helping healing and offering people something that, that you can't find in it of yourself, by yourself and for us. Um, now the way we're getting that fulfilled in a lot of ways is other relationships that we've managed to establish throughout the years or to begin new pursuits of or to enhance or increase our pursuits of those relationships of people who are in their own place on their faith journey. And, uh, yeah, being, uh, being community to one another and, uh, having, uh, Tough conversations are interesting conversations and, uh, so yeah, I connect with different people regularly and it always becomes a topic of conversation at some level and in any interaction that's not just like a quick lunch or something. Is there any, uh, inclination or notion of even this new physical location being, uh, some element of ministry? Like community engagement, outreach, and not necessarily, Yeah, I mean, you know, I said, I'm the, I'm the dreamer of us and yeah, I would love to create a space that could like host, you know, little community building events or, and especially that location. Like there's all sorts of things going on. Yeah. And plan to be involved with those. Um, family, family, family, family, You've probably heard if you listen to a few episodes, uh, we try to do a one word description of your children. Would you like to take that task on? Well, that's, it's hard. It's not impossible. You can each have one word. We can each have one. Yes, and you can hyphenate if you want to. I mean, it's pretty loose constraints. You go first. Oh, gosh. Okay, um, so we have Grace, who is six years old. It's 13 and then we have Harper. She is 11 and Eli is seven. Eight next week. He will be eight next week. I'm sure he reminds you. I'm seven and three quarters. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so grace is a thinker, I think is what I would say of her is like, I, um, she thinks about, she loves to read. She's like very much like Noah. She loves to read. She loves to. Think through the why behind the what, she loves to um, to be involved in our conversations all the time. Yeah. What I was just thinking to myself is like, Noah is, like, no one wants to learn, and Allie wants to imagine. Mm hmm. Uh, and that's pretty That's true. Those are my one word descriptions for you two. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Um Yeah, it's pretty spot on. Uh, at number two, kiddo. What was that, Grace? Harper. Harper, yeah. Yeah, she's 11. Uh, for her, I think I want to pick the word fun, because she's just a fun time. I like it. I like it. Yeah. We, she's, we've been laughing since the day she started to talk. That's awesome. That's awesome. Um, she's, yeah, she's always down, she terrifies me for her teenage years a lot because she's like, Yeah. Hopefully her future boyfriends don't say that. Yeah. Sorry, that was rude. No, no. Let me roll. Give it up. Um, uh, so she, she just terrifies me that she's like gonna do all the crazy daredevil things like, you know, like anything we have that's like slightly dangerous. She's like, I'm in. So very tomboy style kind of thing. When can I, well she's actually a very girly girl. Oh. Cool. But she like, she's saying like, when can I skydive, like, those kinds of things. Um, we have like a little kid four wheeler, and she's the one out of the three that always is riding it, and you know, that kind of thing. So, she's fun. Eli? Eli? Hmm. That's hard. Um, I think for Eli, I would say, Um, But maybe that's because he's a mama's boy. Right. Um. And strong, Eli. And you're so strong. Yeah, he will hate that. Sorry, buddy. I got you. Yeah. Um, but he really is. He's been tender hearted since the day he's been here and, um, yeah, feels all the things and, uh, yeah, just, uh, It's a real strength for a man, honestly. Definitely. To be able to feel the feels. Yes. I'm excited about, like, I feel like Noah will, will, uh, steward that really well and model it for him of like, how to be, like, have the feelings and feel the things, but also be strong. And do hard things and also, yeah, push through it sometimes and know when to do that. And be the hero when you need to, you know, that kind of stuff. So, but he is sweet in his heart of hearts. Like he, I'm just loving this era with him of, he's like, you know, writing. I love you mom all the time. Will you give me a hug? Those kinds of things. It's true. No. Would you like to throw some other words out there at all? I don't know if someone's done this before, but I'll do last names of famous people. That way I get more bang for my buck. Okay. Uh, we'll go Ginsburg, Swift, and. Uh, Lincoln. How about that? Okay. So, has anyone ever done that before? Ginsberg being, no, never heard it. Oh, great. Ginsberg being your oldest? Craces? Yeah, so Ruth Bader Ginsberg thinking she's just, yeah, thinker, bookworm, um, Yeah. Wants to do what's right. Wants to do what's right. Yeah. Yeah. Justice minded. Yeah. Wants to make an impact. Thinking. Swift, because. Like Jonathan Swift? No, like Taylor. Taylor Swift. Oh, Tay Tay. Because Harper is a Taylor Swift. Have fun. Uh, fan of Swift for sure. And, you know, not that this is, uh, really a big deal. Representative of who Taylor Swift is. Cause what do any of us really know about how she is in her personal life other than Travis? I have no idea. Um, but, uh, I've never even knowingly listened to one of her songs. I'm sure I have. We can, Harper will remedy that. Uh, but in her energy, fun, color, you know, that's Harper's life. And then I had a harder time with Eli, but I picked Lincoln cause he loves making a deal, uh, and debating and standing strong and like, he A game, you know, and winning. Yeah, a little game theory action. Did I dig it? Yeah, he makes everything a deal. If this, then this. How about, uh, what's your one word for Allie, Noah? Oh! Curveball! I know, what? I didn't, I wasn't ready for that. Yeah, how many married couples did you listen to on the podcast though? Um, one word Uh, I, I thought like imagery or something, but that's not like a good description. Well, imagine is the thing that I said earlier. Okay. I, I think that the thing that attracted me to Allison at first is still true today, which is she does add so much more detail to life. I see life in the blink of an eye and move really fast. And she helps me to appreciate and see things that I never knew existed. Yeah. Uh, and has done that from Not just in the physical space, but probably also in the mental emotional spiritual space as well. 100%. Yeah, yeah. That's uh, you know, not to make mention, go back to that Bible, or sure, we have that Bible Project podcast that we both kind of like. And that big theme of, you know, unfolding the Bible as a, a, a, a A contained document that points toward Christ, right? The whole thing does that, and that's the big picture, very obviously. And sometimes there's unimaginable beauty in one verse of one psalm, you know? And so that's, uh, worthy to, anyway, I don't know why I go there with that, but, uh, would you like to do the same, uh, for Noah? It's so hard to boil you down to one word, uh, um, Yeah, I think, I do think strong, like I think Noah is a, anytime you make me talk about Noah, I'm going to cry, so I'm going to reel it in. I've got tissues right out there, yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, we've been together 17 years now, so, and as you've heard, we've, we've had our fair share of life that we've yeah. Yeah. And I think he's my rock, like I can lean on him. And he gives me the courage to like, step out into things that I would be timid to do. Was that right there from the start to like Yeah, I think so. Um, yeah. Yep. Neat. I love this guy. You want to Team Hutch? Team Hutch! That's right! That's our hashtag! Team Hutch! We, uh, I think I might have mentioned to you, Noah, at least, that we took in an exchange student about a month ago. And uh If I have a criticism so far, it's that, like, he's obviously been kind of baby throated most of his life, and I'm like, dude, you might have been, like, catered to and stuff in your past life, but here, you're one third of Team Bear. Right. So if Team Bear is working, you're working. Yeah. Like, and if you don't know what to do, figure it out, or ask somebody, or whatever, or just start doing stuff, and I'll tell you if you're doing it wrong, you know. That's good. And I think that's kind of team mentality, and just the, the culture of that is, Hopefully, something he'll bring home with him and his parents will appreciate. Absolutely. This morning, I was like, dude, those chickens need water still. You were supposed to do it last night, but you have to do it before school. We're doing the same at our house. Yeah. Chickens are the best. Yeah. He's very scared of them. Oh. That's awesome. Sorry, Liddy. He probably won't listen. Uh, politics. We're, tonight is the big debate. Tonight it is. Kamala versus Trumpy. Yeah. Do you know that Kamala's father is Donald J. Harris? Yes. No. Is that for the universe throwing weird shit at you? Yeah. That's really funny. That's wild. Um, do you want to talk about local or national? Let's talk about your city council run first, actually. What was that all about? Like, a wild hare crawled up your butt, or you were looking for something in the next chapter, or you just loved Fort Collins so much when you got here, you were like, I want to be a part of this. No, that's great. I, uh. Yeah. Yeah. All of the above. No, I mean, I think, uh, throughout my entire life, if I was to tell you a constant theme, it was making an impact in the community in some way of thinking about. And I always saw politics as an avenue where that occurred where, you know, tip of the spear kind of. Right. Yeah. And, uh, you know, why, why would I just hold the spear? I better just go be the tip. It'd be stabby stabby. Yeah. Cause that's, that's the way I think about life is all or nothing. Just the tip? Sorry. Ha ha ha. Ha ha. So I, um, so yeah, so that was always in my thinking, in my life plan, if you will, and it still is in my life plan to answer the question of will I ever do it again. Um, when, uh, opportunity came to run for city council. I wasn't necessarily looking at that as an opportunity that I, I mean, nobody ever heard of you before. Sure. No, no, no, no. Right. No, I was not. Yeah, I was never heard of a lot of people before. And so, um, yeah, really, it's just certain dice fell into place. Um, that, you know, Lack of any other available candidates, the Republican, we, I guess they don't have parties on city council, right? Or were you the liberal candidate or the conservative one? Uh, I, I was probably perceived as more of the conservative candidate, uh, as all moderates are these days. Yeah. And predominantly because, um, I'd done leadership for Collins. I, uh, was Well, you worked at the church. I worked at a church. Um, so yeah, all of those things kind of put me as, uh, in that bucket. And so, yeah. Which is ultimately why you lost in your district. Yeah, 26 votes. 26 votes. Oh, really? I thought it was 41. I was like, That must be what, uh, Nick Armstrong lost by, it was 41. Uh, it ended up getting updated after a few mail in ballots came in, I think it went up a little bit. 26 on the night of the election. Whatever, yeah. But who's counting? But kudos. Uh, yeah, kudos to the journey there, and it was, uh, I tell people that I got, uh, At least half the accolades of running for office and all the benefits that come with it, but none of the four hours during COVID that Julie got to do for the next number of years. Well, and you also got like a lot of connections and experience that were transformative to the next five years, four years of your life so far, and probably the next 20 after that. And are still like, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. The fruits are going to sprout here and there, you know, you're nowhere. Um, Yeah, I was just gonna say, so I've, so I've always been involved in it, help with campaigns, other things. Alright. And I'll definitely run again at some point. Alright. So, we'll see what happens. Do you wanna be on my campaign if I have to run for city council one of these days? I believe the fifth for the moment, but I mean, not record, but You'll be great. I've thought about it. You'll be great. I really have, and I pretty Yeah. I think I'm probably Uh, I'm in Old Town Westside. I think it's four, isn't it? Um, Emily, yeah, because you're in more North than I was thinking, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. There was three, three super liberal candidates that didn't really have any business related experience or anything. And I was like, do I have to? No, I don't have to. Cause my business is definitely not in a place where I could leave it alone for 20 hours a week. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but it's something that I kind of, you know, I have both a love and a desire for and a disdain for the responsibility of it, uh, in some ways. Um, but I'm already hated by quite a few people in Fort Collins, so that's nice. Just keep putting these podcasts out. So talk to me about the, talk to me about the presidential thing, like big news, right? Like the whole RFK dropping, endorsing, and Biden being Cooed, I guess. A silent coo. Like, what's your sense, I guess, either or of you, like, what is going on in this country, honestly? Like, I mean, it's weird. Um, I think, without being too positional, I think, you know, I, um, I've told Allison several times, I was like, You know, it doesn't matter what you think, who you think's gonna win. I was like, Trump's gonna win. It's just a no brainer. He's just gonna win. Uh, not a no brainer. It's a, it, the analysis all shows, and this is just how things are working. He's gonna win. And then the day the, of the attempted assassination, I was like. When the photo came out of him raising his fist, I was like, wow, if there was any doubt, he's going to win by a bunch. Uh, and so I think the democratic party did what they had to do, uh, whether it's coup or whether it was not like they definitely, uh, they couldn't win. They couldn't win. Well, and what bothers me the most is like, why did they put him up for nomination? With a closed, basically closed primary. Like, I, that's the biggest, probably the biggest problem I have with the process so far is, you knew he was, you knew he was failing. You were apparently glad of that? Or something that was convenient for you? I don't know. There's a little bit of a level of respect that I think one of the things that I don't You don't bump an incumbent president very often. Yeah. I think one of the things that I've, that's made, uh, politics of my interest on the state and national level of less interest in the last years is because of all of the just Well, we haven't even had a president for the last three months, and it doesn't apparently matter much. Well Right? Or maybe the last four years, I don't know. But while I, uh, it's definitely turned me off to it more, but the point to say that is just that, um Yeah, I do. I appreciate the respect that they offered him as an incoming candidate because I feel like that's what the system of the last 250 years has offered someone, so for the most part. I guess, but, I don't know. I don't know. It's pretty gross, though. Like, like, a lot of people knew, like, even going back to 2020, like, the signs of dementia were already there. And the limited amount of FaceTime he's had since then didn't really expose it. I just, I don't know. It's, it just kind of grosses me out that, yeah, that his family would encourage him to run again for four more years, even knowing where he was. But I guess in such a, but in this freaking crazy, like department of justice led a vindication system, like, You know, if you're a hunter, you're like, dad, you got to win. Otherwise I'm going to prison for a while, you know, like I got to win or else I'm going to prison. Fuck. Yeah. Somebody's going to prison if they don't win. Yeah. Like, yeah, that's just crazy. That's just great. So is that still where you stand? You think Trump's going away? No, I think, I think Kamala will win now. Oh, you do? I think because she's not Joe. Uh, yeah, I think she has a good chance. Um, it is interesting. It's been a super interesting thing because although conservatism now is reflected in who Trump is, I don't think that that's true. Certainly not. Yeah, he's very moderate at best. And although, you know, they could say the same about. Although the Democratic Party has been represented in its most wildest of ideas, that's not representative of who it really is, so Um, I'm excited to see what happens tonight and watch the first battle of those. Do you want to put 10 bucks on it? I'll bet on Trump. Who's gonna, who's gonna be the moderator that decides who wins? Can she decide who wins? No, is it like whoever wins? No, not the debate tonight. The actual election. Oh, the actual election. The actual election. Ten bucks. Sure, I'll give you ten. A hundred bucks if you'd rather. I mean, you're a big custom home builder. Ten dollars. People are robbing. People are robbing. How about a, how about a, how about a, a, a bottle of tequila. Ooh, alright, let's do it. Alright, sounds good. And we'll hang out all together and drink it. Nice. Okay, sounds good. Alright, that's enough politics. Oh, Allie, I didn't give you hardly Yeah, that's enough for her, too. That was enough for me. Um, I mean, honestly, I don't friggin know. I don't know. I mean, I just feel like I want to stay out of all of it, to be honest, on the national level, um, and focus on the local, because it's actual people I know. What's important to you locally, uh, on that? I mean, I think I have a lot of business owner, uh, things that, and then that definitely affect us on a daily basis. And then there's, uh, there's also things on like, uh, Um, you know, just code, I mean, codes also affect us on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah. Regulation. Yeah. And which county or city is trying to be more progressive. Yeah. Affordable housing. And. Yes. And, yeah. And clean energy kind of push against each other, right? Totally. Yeah. Because you've got 38 inch. Yeah. Or our 38 insulation all over the place and all these leak proof homes. Or 60 in some ceilings. 60, yeah. Yeah. Or a blower door test I'm doing tomorrow. And in a not very cold climate, right? Yeah. Um, yeah, temporary. Get all that for sure. Um. Yeah. I'll go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, just the last thing I'd say on politics is just, it really does matter with people voting and, you know, I think the best thing someone can do is just get involved in a small way, you know, whether that's donating to some down ballot candidate or whether it's going and, uh, just supporting someone in a local election, you know, it really does make a difference. And, um, yeah. Yeah, I would say every 10 donation Noah got, it just felt like a boost of confidence, you know, and it mattered. And yeah, that's why I say I think local, it really, it matters in a huge way. So, we're running out of time and I know that, but like, I, I happen to be one that's a little bit freaked out about free speech. Feeling like free speech crumbles before, The rest of it, and with Brazil effectively clamping down on free speech and, and X pulling out of Brazil, I didn't frankly like the fact that the NFL played a football game there. Uh, but we've also got our presidential candidate Harris warning Musk not to abuse his responsibility as far as, uh, Miss and mail information. And so, for me, I've, at this point in time, like I've always, I haven't voted for Trump yet, but I probably will this time. And it's all about the, the risk of freedom of speech being, going away. Like I think that is the generational problem that we're facing right now. Um, so anyway, for what it's worth for the listeners out there to give half a shit about what I care. Either that or I'll vote for Kanye again. I might just vote for Kanye. There you go. There you go. There you go. Loco experience. Do you have a together or separate look of experiences? No, we talked about one. Yeah. Together. Let's do the together. Great. You want to do it? Uh, you do it and then I'll jump in because you, That's great. We basically, uh, uh, all I could think about was, uh, in 2007. Uh, 2007 or so, uh, we went on a trip to India, uh, and, um It was like a, both a mission trip and a humanitarian aid trip. It was really, it was really a humanitarian trip. Was there, like, something that happened? A typhoon or whatever? No, it was really humanitarian. We were there to serve, uh, the Dalits, uh, who were the lowest in the caste system. Okay. So To go into their communities to serve them. Like a social justice trip. To help them anyway. So that was something with her social work and something I was interested in. So we both signed up and went and spent our thanksgivings there. But, uh, So we could tell you all kinds of crazy things. Lots of stories. The two craziest things is we flew 40 hours I think to get there. Whoa. The whole travel from like leaving our house to getting, Oh, to going to sleep that next night. And when we arrived. And this is just before your first baby? Yeah. Oh, I know we weren't married. We weren't even dating. Oh, you weren't even married. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. This is a way to escape the, uh, the chaperone. That's right. Ha, ha, ha. Uh. I want to be clear, they didn't make a chaperone. No relationship. Good clarity, Paul. If you listen to this point, you got that clarity. Um, but, uh, two crazy things. So we land in this first day after these 40 hours. We are in this room together and there's a hundred of us, people all over from India. I mean, there's more than a hundred. There's a lot of people and we're all in this tiny, tiny room and these guys are banging on these drums. No AC at home. We're like beads of sweat dropping down our forehead and then singing, chanting, chanting in Indian in their like. And then all of a sudden it becomes apparent that I think we're taking communion because I caught something that was like we're doing interesting and they pass this coconut around that everyone everyone shared and you're supposed to sip the coconut water and then take a bite out of the coconut and I was like 40 hours later, I'm like, where am I? I'm so delirious. So just a wild thing, but it only got wilder because a couple next day or a couple of days later, we went like deep into the villages and like, we're like in the slums of India and they, uh, one of the things they said is, Hey, whatever you do, if they offer you anything in a village and as a sign of respect, just eat it, drink it, whatever, even if you get sick, you know, that's what you do to respect the people. So we're like, all right, we can do it. Right. Yeah. So we came through this slum of a village, and they were so proud to see these white Americans, uh, that they handed out this curded goat milk to us that was warm. Yum. And most all of us were like, I can't do it, I can't do it. But all you can hear in your mind is, I gotta respect the people. They gave each of us a cup. They gave each of us a cup. So at the very back of the line there was this dude named Tony and we just passed him back and Tony pounded him all in the name of God. And I think he was sick of, he was so sick. But I was so thankful for Tony. So, so thank, shout out Tony. Anyway, that was just a wild adventure. Here we are, young and crazy. Yeah, we also went to Haiti right after the earthquake happened and helped. Oh, did. Uh, and that was a wild adventure, just seeing buildings on the ground, people in tents. Yeah. Uh. That's such an interesting, um, what, how do I say it, like a very, I guess, social justice oriented church in general, right? Yeah. Like, um, actually action based. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what was attractive to us all. Yeah, definitely an attractive piece and a great thing they still do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, what a neat adventure. And Haiti is, uh. Hasn't gotten much better, unfortunately. No, probably even worse, yeah. And, and, the welcome of Christians is less good in India these days, too. Oh, for sure. Yeah. That's getting kind of intense, also. Yeah. Seems like we could have another whole two hour conversation. We could! You have to invite us back. But we'll have to wrap this one up. Um, would you care to share, like, a website or best place to find you guys? Sure. Uh, sure. HutchDesignBuild. com. H U T C H. DesignBuild. com. Easy peasy. Follow our Instagram. We're super active on there. Cool. Uh, same. Yeah. HutchDesignBuild. Yeah. Check us out. Tell a friend. Yeah. Alright. Talk to you soon.
