EXPERIENCE 186 | Writing a New Chapter in Her Career Journey - AND Helping Purpose-Driven Women Begin & Succeed in their Next Chapter - America’s Encore Career Strategist, Julie Ulstrup

Julie Ulstrup began her career in admissions counseling, soon transitioned to school counseling, and was a School Counselor for Poudre School District for 13 years.  Like many of the purpose-driven, she began to experience burnout after about 10 years - and made a leap in 2016 - transforming her hobby business of photography into a vibrant full-time enterprise.  In just a few years, she had more than doubled her income, and saw transformative change in dozens of clients.  Her mix of photography talent and experience as a counselor helped her help clients not only look great - but feel great about the way they look - which makes the photos even better!  And, she even turned her learnings on the topic into a Ted Talk!

While she has continued to be in high demand for her photography, in the last few years Julie started coaching business owners and executives to excel in their current role - and to consider their next chapter.  Newly in 2024 her focus has narrowed even further - helping people like her - teachers, counselors, nurses, social workers, and more - that have found career success but are experiencing burnout - plan and execute their next chapter, usually as entrepreneurs!

Julie is a great conversationalist, a lifetime learner, and an adventurer.  Though acquainted for years, this is the first time we’ve really sat down together for an extended period - and I left the conversation with both my fondness and my respect increased.  So please join me - and learn lots of great stuff - about and from Julie Ulstrup, America’s Encore Career Strategist!  

The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/

💡Learn about LoCo Think Tank

Follow us to see what we're up to:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook

Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Transcript

0:41

Julie Ulstrup began her career in admissions counseling, soon transitioned to school counseling, and was a school counselor for Poudre School District for 13 years. Like many of the purpose driven, she began to experience burnout after about 10 years, and made the leap in 2016, transforming her hobby business of photography into a vibrant, full time enterprise. In just a few years, she had more than doubled her income and saw transformative change in dozens of clients. Her mix of photography talent and experience as a counselor helped her help clients not only look great, but feel great about the way they look, which makes photos even better. And she even turned her learnings on the topic into a TED Talk. While she has continued to be in high demand for photography, in the last few years, Julia has started coaching business owners and executives to excel in their current role and to consider their next chapter. Take a look. Newly in 2024, her focus has narrowed even further, helping people like her, teachers, counselors, nurses, social workers, and more, That have found career success, but are experiencing burnout plan and execute their next chapter, usually as entrepreneurs, Julie is a great conversationalist, a lifetime learner and an adventurer though acquainted for years. This is the first time we've really sat down together for an extended period. And I left the conversation with both my fondness and my respect much increased. So please join me and learn lots of great stuff about and from Julie Alstrup, America's Encore career strategist. um, okay, here we go. One, two, three. Welcome back to the Low Code Experience Podcast. I'm pleased today to be joined by Julie Ulstrup and Julie is America's Encore Career Expert. So welcome to the show. Thanks so much, Kurt. I'm delighted to be here. So happy. You know, it's going to be hard for me to think of you as other than Julie Ulstrup, photographer, business leader, a woman encourager. Um, and I was really interested to learn about kind of your refreshed focus on this specific niche, I guess. Yes. Yeah. It's really been an evolution as many of us, uh, entrepreneurs, I started my entrepreneur journey as you know, as a photographer specializing in branding and specifically photographing women. And prior to that, I worked in education. I worked in higher education for a while, and then I worked in secondary education as a school counselor. And what I realized is I brought a lot of that, um, those skills, those techniques, the things that I used as a school counselor in my photography. And I really helped women specifically. I also worked with men. But I really helped people show up. Yeah. In their full brilliance. And so, you know, evolving into women's leadership and then to this really seems like the next natural step for me. So. I'm thinking to myself, like, Yeah. Not any photographer, but a lot of photographers can make you look beautiful, but it takes a really good one to make you feel beautiful. And that's kind of the evolution that you took from there to here in some ways. Absolutely. It is. Yeah. I, a lot of times women, I used to hear all the time, they hated to be photographed and, and always. I would help them to look beautiful, feel beautiful in their photographs, and show up really authentically. So there's that, that depth and breadth of experience that I brought to a photo shoot, that then, Like I said, it's morphed into this business where I am now. Yeah. Neat. Um, and has this been like, did you like go to a retreat and like think about what my next chapter is? Or you just kind of stumble into a few of these kind of client engagements and then you're like, you know what? I should really, this is where my heart is singing. Where my heart is singing, absolutely. And I had so much feedback from photo shoots. So back during the pandemic, I did a TED talk and I talked about the power of a portrait and how women can change the way they see themselves. And so again, there, that evolution I've continued with the photography. I've had a lot of women who, Absolutely do change the way they see themselves and then moving into women's leadership in leading the Northern Colorado chapter of E Women Network for two years and growing that. And I realized by bringing those things together, the ability to help, really help people see themselves in bigger, bolder ways and have more purpose in that is, it's really been an evolution. It hasn't been a stumbling. A lot of people will have like a. a huge aha, and after a photo shoot, they'll be like, Oh my gosh, everything changed for me after that. I had a client who said that. And so I thought, you know, what if I offered longer amounts of time that I could work with people like, like I used to, I mean, I used to work for sure. You had a whole school year for a while. Well, and four years, you know, if I was working with someone in high school, so yeah. You had an interesting thing. Yeah. If you, if I can make this much of an impact in a two hour photo shoot, like What would a continuing engagement look like? Yes, exactly. That's exactly it. Can we talk about, like, some of your practices, I guess? Like, what are, have you developed, like, a whole system of your own that you use? Is it more instinctual based on the client you're working with? Like, what, what, what are the toolkit that you're bringing to bear? Yeah, so I have, um, some proven practices and success strategies, and it depends on how the client chooses to work with me. I do offer weekly, a weekly community that I have online, and I have people actually not from all over the world, but I've got someone from Canada. I've got people from around the United States in there, and I teach on certain, you know, business principles, business topics, because I've been an entrepreneur now for seven or eight years. So, And I'm a person who loves to learn. I love to learn and then I love to share that information out. So we go through different topics, you know, relevant topics to starting a business. What is, you know, what does it look like? What's your purpose? What is decisive action look like? How are you going to be courageous? So things like that in the community. But if I'm working with someone one on one, definitely we put together a success plan. We do specific strategy. I've got a, um, Because these are people that are thinking about starting a business, potentially, as an encore. Is that right? Yes. That's the target market is? Maybe teachers, maybe nurses, maybe, something else. Yes. You, you actually hit the nail on the head. I work with a lot of educators. I work with a lot of healthcare professionals, social workers that want to get the heck out of that industry. Other, other people in purpose driven business, you know, that really like, you know, that you spoke to me of that their heart is really singing to have some purpose and, and impact and perhaps an increase in income. I think there's some kind of fear. I know there is a lot of times about people becoming entrepreneurs and what's it going to take? And it's, it's not really that scary. It does take courage, of course. But, um, you know, there's some things that we can do to shorten the timeline. So it's not this ongoing, Like, okay, how am I going to, how am I going to do this? Yeah. What does it look like? I had someone send me a message today and he's like, oh yeah, it'll probably take me 15 years to figure out LinkedIn. I'm like, well, it doesn't have to, I I've got a system for that. So yeah, that's interesting. Um, well, and I was just, sometimes I say things that I shouldn't, but I was just thinking to myself that. You know, if you had a teaching career, I mean, it's always scary to start any kind of a business, but at least the income that you're replacing isn't super big. Like, if you're leaving a hundred thousand dollar a year job with corporate to try to start a business, that's a lot scarier in some cases than trying to get back to the forty thousand or something that a lot of teachers, unfortunately, are stuck at. Yeah, and many of the educators that I work with there, they're at a higher level, you know, encore. Yeah, they're not generally at the beginning of their career. They have 1020 years, maybe even 30. I've got a client who retired from education with like, 35 or 40 years, and she just she just knew like, I don't, I don't want to have to figure everything out on my own because, you know, that's the thing. We don't have to figure everything out on our own. Well, the beautiful thing about being an entrepreneur is you can craft a business size and responsibility set that fits your lifestyle. Absolutely. You know, it's hard to get a, a purpose fulfilling part time substitute teacher thing or whatever, but maybe I can have a 20 hour a week business that still allows me to travel a lot, three months a year. Absolutely. Absolutely. And speaking to your point of, you know, income, and I have 20 years of experience with a master's degree and I was able to double my income in about three years after leaving education. Now, now I had started, um, you know, I'd started prior. You had some reputation in the hierarchy already. Yes, some reputation. No, I did. And, um, you know, so it. It absolutely can be done and it can be something that's very liberating, again, very purpose driven because it was more for me about the transformation and the experience of the person in front of the camera. Well, that's incredible, uh, also, by the way, because I've known a lot of photographers that struggle to really find that marketplace. And I think that's one thing that you've really done well. And even in this new chapter for you, It's like defining who your customers should be and kind of finding that niche and, you know, explaining what you really do, what the benefits of working with me is. Thank you. Yeah, that's true. And you're right. That is a thing. And that's something that I help people with. I help with clarity and extreme focus because when we have the, you know, going backwards actually starting with purpose. You know, really starting with purpose, because as you know, you know, it's not all roses and cupcakes and unicorns and confetti, you know, I mean, running a business, there are things that are challenging. Sometimes things take longer than we expect. And it can be so fulfilling. And to have that purpose and passion. Underneath all of the other things is, I believe, really where we start. And I think, quite honestly, I think where a lot of businesses fail is not having that firm foundation of purpose and the clarity and the focus. So that's what I can help with. So your, your online community that you're, you introduced at first, that's probably people that are currently employed. Or maybe recently retired and they're ready to start a new chapter. It probably includes entrepreneurship and where do I even start? Is that kind of that demographic? Okay. Exactly. So you're really hitting the foundations of business and defining yourself and. Yeah. Even within that group form. Is that free? Or is that a membership community? No, there's, it's a membership, it's a membership community. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, uh, we meet weekly. It's an hour. It's a, it's a workshop. And then kind of a Q and A. I, I, coming from education, I like to give people homework, but I refer to it as growth work and it's, you know, yeah, like let's, let's put the lipstick on the pig. Right. Yeah. But usually the people that choose to work with me really are growth minded and they, they have that idea of, Yes, I want something more. Yes, I want to still serve my purpose. They don't want to have a part time job that doesn't really mean anything or isn't very fulfilling. Yeah. I don't want to go work at Home Depot after I retire from teaching, you know, part time. Cause it's not fulfilling. I've been, you know, Filling young brains with information for years and I don't want to just punch a clock somewhere, right? But what can I do? And that's one of the things I think that really, you know, happens sometimes, especially with educators, especially with people in the healthcare field. They create this vision for other people and sometimes they forget about it for sure for themselves. It's a great reason to start with why and purpose and stuff, right? Like my purpose is to Yes. No, it's got to be a little bit bigger if you're going to take the next step. Absolutely, and have the commitment and the you know, the courage to step into that because that's, that's really what's gonna take. So these folks that in your weekly forum, are they? Like potential fully engaged people they're kind of feeling out some of the basics for now And then once it gets more real they might take you on in that capacity. Yes Yes, absolutely And they you know, sometimes if I'm working with people in I have an accelerator program. That's a seven week program I have a client who went through that program and she said that What she accomplished in that seven weeks she expected was going to take her two years, right? So it is a you know, so so in that program She's also part of the community when people are in my year long program. They're part of the community So the community fills a lot of different places Yes. Some people have mastered this particular skill, but they're still in the community and they can even feed into others in some ways. It's a great way to share ideas. It's a great way, you know, you know the benefits of community. It's powerful. Yeah. Yeah. They, sharing ideas and getting other people's perspectives, I think is one of the great things about having an online community. So, I guess for listeners out there, like, what are the, let's, let's go back to, I mean, everybody's watched, it starts with Y and Simon Sinek and stuff, right? But that's, like, that's the question, but how does, how does one of your clients, like, actually unfold that onion or peel it, right? Sure. So, I think Simon Sinek is wrong. Good. I just think he's smarmy. I don't know. Oh, he's totally smart. But I don't think they start No, smarmy is what I think. Oh, smarmy. Yeah, a little bit smarmy. Yeah. Well, I, I just think that we start with what? Okay. And here's the what that I think is really important. I'm going to like drum roll, brrrrr, right? Like pay attention to this one. Start with what. What do you want? What lights you up? What does the world need? What can you get paid for? Right. Yeah. And these, these are principles of ikigai. If you can find where all those circles come together, right? Yeah. That is your passion and purpose. And, and those are the principles of ikigai, which is, you know, not my, Creepy boyfriend. I was gonna say icky guy. Before I was married. Yeah, icky guy is a Japanese principle. Okay. That combines What do I love? What am I good at? What can I get paid to do? And what the world needs? And all of those come together to And that's where we find our purpose. And I love a Venn diagram, right? Okay. So I'm one of those very unusual people. I'm a counselor, a very much a people person, uh, you know, women's, but I love a Venn diagram. And that's part of the icky guy is the, uh, four circles coming together with purpose in the middle. Yeah. I've certainly seen that. I didn't remember the name. Icky guy. I've been called a creepy guy. Is that the same? No, it's not the same. It's not even G U I, it's G A I. I K I G A I. Um, what was that, uh, oh, I might be wrong. food trailer back in the day. I don't know if you ever, uh, participated in Bear's Backyard Grill. No, I did not. So I had a vegetarian, uh, slider, which was kind of marinated, uh, portabellos and griddled and on a slider sandwich with some yummy cheese and toppings. Sounds fabulous. And, uh, the name of it was, uh, Such a Fun Guy. Oh, a fun guy. Yeah. Well, I am a vegetarian and I, you know, We'd love to try such a fun guy. Tell your favorite vegetarian restaurant they can steal that if they would like. If that kind of, uh, I like it. What was, I had a squash taco. Oh, Sassy Squash Tacos was my other key vegetarian. Butternut squash, uh, marinated and griddled. Sounds good. I never made any of those backyard picnics. You might have to reignite those. Yeah, we can bring that out sometime here. Anyway, uh, where did we get, came onto that? From mushrooms. Icky Guy. Icky Guy. Oh, yeah, mushrooms and guys. Icky Guy, Creepy Guy. Fungi. Seth Godin. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so we've defined our purpose. It's kind of that alignment thing. Yes. So. Clarity and then extreme focus. Mm hmm. Um, clarity is just kind of a refinement of that Venn diagram that we drew out, or is it more about clarity of actions that are needed? Both. Okay. Both. What, you know, what do you, so, let's say, here we are, we're on a podcast, let's say If you hated podcasting, would you do it? You know? No. So, so we look at, and you know, it's interesting because I've done a lot of speaking. I've been, I've done a TED talk and that kind of thing. For me, and for a lot of educators, getting up in front of a room and speaking isn't a big deal. However, If you're getting up to speak about your thing, I mean, it's interesting because, yeah, I was reflecting on this and when I was quite a bit younger, when I started my career in higher ed, I would get up in front of a room of, um, prospective students and their parents, I don't know, 500, maybe 1000 people. And I would be like, do this, do this, you know, go here, go there. Yeah. No big deal at all. And it can be terrifying to speak on a stage or to speak in front of a group of 10 or 12 people about Yeah. Your business, your passion, your purpose. Totally. And it sounds so funny that, well, why should I be afraid to talk about it? But it's a fear that a lot of people have. I have this, I've been a paddle raise auctioneer several times, a volunteer MC for, you know, 500, 800 person events. That's so easy. And get me up and talking about Loco Think Tank or the Loco Experience podcast in front of people. 30 people or something and I'm scared or even have me do the invocation about something that's deeply meaningful to me at the Rotary Club. You know, I'll get all self conscious and voice cracky and stuff. Well, I will share with you something that I share with my clients and I, and, and I share this too. Um, as a way to really get into purpose, as a way, also as a way to just really get grounded. And I have people put one hand on their heart. We, you know, we have these different, um, brains in our body. We have, of course, our head, which is Americans we think about, use all the time. Um, but we have a heart center. I'm our heart center is also a thinking center and our belt. You've got your hand at your other hand on your belly. Yeah. Um, and I'll tell you why in a little bit, but keep going. Yeah. And so we breathe in and out through our belly and through our heart three times, three times in deep breath in through the nose, exhale through the mouth, in through the nose, out through the mouth. Like you're breathing through a straw and one more time and exhale. And you can feel the difference. I'm very relaxed. I exaggerate, but yeah, that was so relaxing to me. Because you're really into your body. Because sometimes we get into our head and we think about what we're thinking about instead of really being in the moment and present for who we are, what we want to express, and what we think we should be doing. We don't need to think. We can be. Yeah. Yeah, you know that the reason I smiled there is and I say that often But I think I don't know if you remember it from our freethink when you attended a freethink session a while back Mm hmm. And so we give that big list of suggestions, right? We got a dozen or 15 suggestions from the from the collaborative group here. Yes, and then You know, don't leave with 15 things to do, which are the 2 or 3 or 4 things, and I always say that that really got you right here, but especially right in the heart and in the gut. If, if you felt it in your heart or in your gut that that was, One of the things that you should do when you heard that suggestion. Yes, then commit to action on that suggestion It's aligned with what you should be doing probably Absolutely, and we can learn so much from our breath and like you said feeling it in our heart and feeling it in our gut I lived in Spain. I don't know if you knew that I lived in Spain for about six months And one of the things that, besides being an incredible all around experience, one of the way that their language is, instead of saying how we say, I think this, I think that, right? Again, we're like these talking heads. In Spain, if you ask somebody a question, and they might not be sure, the response is, creo que eso es, which would mean, I believe it's this. Yeah. You know, it's not a feeling. Yeah. And it's a believing, it's a believing and well, if you believe it is true, kind of, yeah, in some ways, uh, I mean, not just, just that, but it, yes, but it's true for you, at least in that moment. Absolutely. The way you've ordered your awareness of the world. Um, it corresponds to that right now. Yes. And we forget that because we get so It's Into all of the things and all of the moving parts. Well, and fear is like a big blurry lens that gets between you and that purpose, the what. Yes. Things like that, you know? Yes. And you're like, I can't, I'm so scared I can't see what I'm supposed to do very good. Exactly. Exactly. And, and that breath, it, it triggers the autonomic nervous system. So I was thinking to myself also that clarity thing really also starts with a clear awareness of where you are right now. Yes. Right. Like with every strategic planning, it's not just clarity of where I want to go, but clarity of where I am so that I can start to build that bridge from where I am to where I want to go. Yes. Yes. Build that strong foundation. Build that bridge. Fill that gap. However it is. Whatever that is. Right? Yeah. Like, I do occasionally engage with people where they're like, I'm going to buy a donut shop. And you're like, I don't really think this is gonna be right for you, or whatever, like, or, or what they have is an idea of what they should do, at least gets unflushed as maybe not. Usually, I work with service based businesses, um, and I guess a donut shop would be a, um. We fry your dough for you. That's right. It would be, yeah. But it's more, much more retail, much more overhead. You're talking a lot more consultative and different things like that. Yeah, it's consulting and coaching. Absolutely. Built off that foundation of teaching that they already have or caring for people in some capacity, social work, nursing. All of those things, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then the last of the three was, or maybe it's not the last, but the next one you mentioned was extreme focus. Yes. I, uh, we'd probably say extreme focus is something that I don't have a lot of cause I'm like, we were just talking before we went live about, you know, my life is kind of this chaotic cloud and I, Pull things out of it to focus on at that moment for a while Okay, which isn't necessarily positive. Although it it's part of how I roll a little bit in my my team Much more extreme focus like the amount of work that I only got done this Mid afternoon on some content stuff. I was like, dang, good job, you know, yeah, absolutely And knowing that about yourself and knowing where you need support Knowing what is yours to do is really important. You know, what is yours to do? Where is your zone of genius? And where do you need help? And you know, the reality is is we can't I mean, we think we can do it all alone. We can't really do it all. No. There's no, there's no such thing. Yeah. Like there's no solopreneur in the world that does it all alone. Like even, even the, the handyman has to go get nails from the store and, uh. Absolutely. You know, take dump runs and different things like there is no such thing really as a stand alone business. Right. And, and so what are you going to contract out? What's yours to do? And, you know, for me, one of the things that I do, because I don't, and it's interesting because I think coming from a world of, you know, higher ed, secondary education, there's so many things that are. Uh, and, and it's corporate too, right? There's so many things that are on our platter that are like, that are given to us that we have to do. And there's a lot of bureaucracy that's just part of the thing. Right. Right. And you know, and then being an entrepreneur, it's like, okay, well what am I going to do with my time? And, and one of the things that I do and I really encourage my clients to do too is, you know, at the beginning of the month. Say, Okay, what is it that that I want to happen this month? What is it that I want to achieve? And it's not necessarily like, you know, putting down, I'm going to do this for five minutes a day, although you could do that, you know, but every morning, taking a few moments taking a few breaths, you know, I have a meditation and a journaling practice and, you know, And I schedule out my day, and I schedule out my week, and then the things that are meant to get done, get done. If you get those big three each day, or big five each day, or whatever, you'd be surprised how much progress you make. Exactly. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. And I've actually Um, been improving in that myself lately. The reason you saw me smiling big just now is when I first left banking, before Think Tank, before my food trailer or anything, I was Bear Capital Advisors. And the first blog I wrote Uh, in that capacity was, uh, with both horror and excitement, there's no one to tell me what to do. Right. And, uh, you spoke directly to that topic, uh, you know, when you're a banker, when you're a teacher, when you're a nurse, like there's always something put in front of you that needs to get done. A physician and a surgeon. Sorry about that. Yeah, no, it's okay. Yeah, physicians, surgeons, um, you know, x ray, people in x ray and there's all, there's a schedule. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, almost every minute is semi scheduled. You got some things. You got to take these notes for this patient or these things, whatever, grade these papers at home while you're watching football with your husband on the couch. But there's also just the, here's the flow. Exactly. And you got to step out of that to really be innovative and creative in your roles. And a lot of teachers are awesome. I mean, my Rotary Club recognizes a teacher of the month every month and to hear some of the innovations that they bring in and share and stuff. It's amazing. Yes. And it takes stepping out of. The routine almost even to make space for that. Absolutely. It does. And as a practice, then they're not really experiencing stepping out of the routine. Right. Right. I imagine that's gotta be quite the almost traumatic element for some. I guess it can be. Or, or rejuvenating and joyful, if you. Put it in the right place. Well, there's, yeah, and there's this whole idea of, you know, many educators, many people who have that kind of, you know, there's like a, and I would say this is true with entrepreneurs as well. You know, there are seasons of how things work that align with, you know, the seasons of the year. And, you know, you, you hear about people who. You know, to your point, like, all right, well, I'm going to collapse on the couch and grade papers or things like that. But, but taking time, and I mentioned that I, um, was able to live in Spain for six months and I did a sabbatical. Oh. So that was at the, it was very interesting because at the time I was working in a large school district here in Northern Colorado. And I don't know how many employees are in the district, thousands. Are you talking a big Thompson pooter? Yeah. Mm hmm. Yep. I was in Poudre School District. All right. And I, I don't know. I, I really don't know. Thousands for sure. But thousands. Thousands of professional educators. And um, the year that And just as many administrators. Probably. Probably. And the year that I applied for sabbatical, I'll never forget this, so the email came across my computer, you know, in my email system and I, I just knew that I was going to apply for that sabbatical. Oh, okay. Okay. I knew. Um, with everything that I am and everything that I was, and I worked at a school that was a high Spanish speaking population, and I had always wanted to live overseas, since I had my grandma, both of my grandparents. Circum y here, by the way, uh, like what year ish was this? Oh yeah, this was in 2010. Okay. So it's been a minute. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't offer sabbatical anymore, which is very interesting. I, I have a lot of, there's a lot of interesting information about sabbatical, but, um, so I applied for sabbatical and I was like, I'm going to get all the things done, you know, cross all the T's, dot all the I's, make sure everything gets done on time. And one, when my sabbatical was accepted, I think there were seven people. Okay. Okay. Yeah. 7 people in the entire district that had applied for sabbatical. I think only 3 of us, and all 7 got it. I thought it was going to be this highly competitive, right, because can you imagine? I mean, I did have a small stipend. It wasn't a fully paid, um, but I did have a stipend and I was guaranteed a job when I came back. Right, right. And I think 3 of us. took to sabbatical. It wasn't like there was a cohort or anything. Right. Right. But like, so you talk about stepping out of the normal routine of education. It can be terrifying for people. Yeah. And I would imagine that probably most professions, You know, I think if you go to, I don't know if you have some kind of innovation or something that you want to work on that might be very specifically related to curriculum, I don't know, but it was very small and I was very surprised. And I think one of the pieces of the work that I do is to help people realize if they have that passion, Yeah. And they have this desire to create and innovate and share something because there's so much wisdom in that. People who've worked in these kind of fields and they have so much to share, you know, and whether they continue with their job or they continue and then decide, okay, I'm ready to take the jump and move into what's next. I love working with them because they just, they have huge hearts for what they're doing. Do you ever tell anybody, like, I'd love to work with you, but. Just go take two months first. No, I haven't done that because, because here's why. You can set them up better probably for that. Well, and it, you know, so I talked about the Venn Diagram, the Ikigai Venn Diagram, and I have another Venn Diagram that I love. Uh, when I worked with students, I had, um, we worked with them with their social, emotional, and academic needs. Excellent. Right. And that was going to make a successful student in the next level. And when I work with people in their encore career, you know, we look at what's your skill set, what's your mindset and what's your tool set. And that mindset piece is, you know, people have very strong ideas about who they are. And so it's like, and what is that going to look like? Yeah. And when we asked that question again, What do you want? And you've been living in a certain way for a certain amount of years, 10, 20, 30, you might not know. Like, what would that look like? What would it look like to, you know, to live overseas for six months or, you know? Yeah, yeah. So, so that would be something like a next level, that would be a next level decision, I think. Unless someone came to me and said they wanted to do it, I'd be all for it. Sure, yeah, I'd plan that out for you, for sure. Yeah. When I, uh, when I moved to Colorado Springs, um, back in 2004, Mm hmm. Circum y. Circum y. So I was with Bank of Colorado in Windsor and they had acquired a handful of banks in Colorado Springs, three of them. And, uh, they kind of wanted a company man down there just to make sure they knew what they were doing in the Bank of Colorado way and stuff. And I was a couple years in, three years in with them. Um, and my new boss, this guy named Rob Alexander, uh, had been the guy that sold the banks but was still there running them. And, uh, what was it, Rob never heard a good idea that wasn't his? was how I heard him described before it was pretty accurate. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, but I had already had a 30 day vacation plan. My wife's parents were taking us to Greece for three weeks and then a week in Italy. Nice. And, uh, told that to Rob during like the interview process.'cause it was like four or six months out. But it was like, dude, I'm gonna be gone for a month. Right. Yeah. And he was like, well, I guess I've always. Heard that if you can do without somebody for a month, you can do without them, period. Wow, bold statement. I was like, whatever, asshole. Yeah. It's a bank. It's not a freaking retail store. Like, we'll make a couple less loans that month. Like, Or not. Or not. Right. Yeah. Like, you've got everything set up, right? Well, and things, it's, you know, it was a commercial banker, so, you know, it takes a long time to attract clients to, Hey, do you want to close all your old accounts and move them over to my bank and get a loan and give me all your taxes for the last three years plus some projections and stuff? Sure, it's going to take a minute. It does. Uh, anyway, I digress. But when you were talking about that sabbatical in such full Um, a small number, especially of teachers, man, what a, if you're a teacher out there and you've never applied for, oh, they don't have it anymore. They don't. Maybe at Big Thompson they do. I don't know. Yeah. And there might, there might be other places that they do. And if you're listening, superintendent of schools at Poudre School District, cause I know you're a fan, maybe you should bring the sabbatical back. Like it would really, like in your case especially, like I'll come back with a much stronger grasp of Spanish, which will make me a better teacher for the rest of my career. Oh. Yeah. And, and for me, the, there, You know, it, this is the same with entrepreneurship, right? We don't know what we don't know. Totally. We don't know what we don't know. And I went to Spain to learn Spanish language and culture. That was the, the point, but what actually happened, but what actually happened is it opened me to. So many different, you know, the example that I used before saying, I believe versus I think that is just a small, small piece. I mean, my whole brain matrix is rewired because there's a different way that I speak. And I lived with a family who, um, the woman was about my age, maybe a couple of years older. And I refer to her my as my cousin, you know, kids. College students who study abroad. So it was like a, like a VRBO before there was such a thing, kind of thing? No, it was like an exchange student. Oh, it was actually through an exchange program. Well, it wasn't through an exchange program. Here's a note to anybody who's at the university level. Don't go through the university, I, I, I, Um, when I worked in higher ed, um, they were like, Oh, you can pay the same as your private school tuition and you can go anywhere in the world. Right, right. Well, guess what? In Spain, tuition at the time was about 1, 000 a year. Oh. Yeah. And I paid for my room and board, which was set up through the Spanish university. I was at the University of Alicante and it was set up to live with a family. Just like, you know, I mean, it was hilarious because I was an adult and, and there were a lot of. college students that I became friends with. Mostly people were taking in 22 year olds and stuff. Yes. Yeah. So I became really good friends with, and I'm still friends with, the family that I live with. My husband and I visited Valencia last year. And we took some time and visited my family in Alicante. My husband went off. I have, I have other family, um, biological family in Alicante. Okay. And he went with my dad to, to visit our biological family. And I visited with my, my host family. And we saw each other in front of the restaurant and we just stood there and cried, you know, because we just had this reunion and we, and I really was able to learn, you know, I mean, you talk about social emotional learning because I really wanted to connect with this person. Yeah. And we're, we're dear friends to this day and it's definitely, you know, given me a broader perspective and change the way I see myself and change the way I think and yeah. Well, and you can, it's such an interesting thing. To go back to that think versus believe. Yes. You know, I think I'm beautiful is a different statement than I believe I'm beautiful. 100%. I think I'm capable is a different statement than I believe I'm capable. You know, in different ways. I think, I think I can double my income. Right. I believe. Yeah. I can double. I believe that I have what it takes to double my income. I believe that I can make a difference in the world is different than, yeah, I think I can do that. Yeah. Right. Right. I mean, I get it. The intonation in my voice is different. Well, it is. There's some flippancy. And there's. Yeah, I dig it. I'm, I'm, I'm down. Yeah. Um, Make sure I'm drinking water this time. We're gonna jump in the time machine here pretty quick. What, uh, what else would you want folks to know about kind of the practice of, uh, uncovering that, uh, encore? Uh, whether or not it's with you, but I, I think that's, like, as the world has adapted and careers are, Um, shorter and different and more varied and there's, you know, weird like freelancing things and all kinds of like, um, they're not weird. They're amazing. They're awesome. They're awesome. Yeah. Compared to, not weird. Uh, we'll just say there's so many different chapters available, you know, like when I think about when you think about the average kid in 1967 or 75 or 85 or even, you know, today, I mean, in the nineties. Like the world hasn't started to change so fast. You know, you were imagining you go to college and then if you're an engineer, you go work for an airplane manufacturer or some kind of company. If you're a finance person, you go work for a bank or if you're a computer science person, you go work for IBM or something, HP. Now it's like so much more fragmented. We still have those big employers in some places. Yeah. But it's a whole different realm of, like, people almost plan to have five plus chapters in their career journey now. Absolutely. Whereas that wasn't the norm for most of your clients. That's really interesting that you say that. And, um, my husband left, um, HP several years ago and, and he talked about starting his second career. And he's like, Oh yeah, Julie and I are on our second career. And I'm like, Oh yeah, no, this isn't my second career because what I, because when I started as an educator, I had, I had had other, I had worked as a photographer through high school, through high school and through college and, you know, worked my way into management and, you know, I had lots of, I worked in sales and I had a lot of really cool experiences, but I also realized that wasn't necessarily normal. And I think, yeah. So for you, in some ways, getting back into entrepreneurship was more normal, more right? It, it felt. It felt like the right thing for me to do at the time, and I mean, I think that's one of the things that I really help people with is, you know, I really believe that if we have this, like, desire or we want to do something, like, It's there for us to do. Like, if, if there's something that we've been feeling for a long time, like, yeah, I want to do this, right, it's, it might not be like the Big Bang explosion or something, but it's like this, this consistent voice that is like, yeah, Kurt, you should do this. Right? That, that's, that's our goal. That's our heart's desire. That's our purpose. So yeah. Those doors can be open. Absolutely. Well, I am going to jump us in the time machine here momentarily. Okay. But first I'm going to call it potty break. Okay. Okay. We'll be right back. Okay. Like just being a banker and dressing like a banker is supposed to and stuff like that. And this isn't disrespectful, but you know, the green on green is fun. And I've even got, uh, lucky brew socks on from Mandy Mullins organization over there. Nice. So, um, oh yeah, we were gonna get in the time machine when we came back from the break. Yeah, and I, um, I asked you if we're going forward or going back because I do have a, I do have a forward time machine piece too. Do you want me to go there first? Actually, let's go there first. Yeah, where are you going with this? Well, it's just zoom up there. We can just zoom there. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to zoom there because, um, what, what year are we zooming to? I have to punch in when I'm old. I don't really know when I'm old, but it's going to be a long time, 40 years or something, 40 years from now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 40 years from now. So 20, uh, 64, 20, 64. So, um, my husband and I have been practicing. I've been a martial arts student for about 10 years, which is. So, uh, I started practicing Kung Fu because I thought it would be a good, I'd heard that it was going to be a good way to get in shape for my wedding when Mark and I got married, like about, you know, 10 years ago. And, uh, so it was like, all right, I'm taking Kung Fu. And I really, really like Kung Fu. I really like it. And, uh, before the wedding, we started to spar. Not my husband and I. We started to spar in Kung Fu. And I was like, oh yeah, no, don't hit me. I do not want to be hit. I don't want to be bruised. I don't. Yeah. All those things. No, I do not want to show up with bruises all over me. Long story short, a teacher came in from a different school, a different quown, and he started teaching Tai Chi. And so we have been practicing Tai Chi for podcast for the first time in, um, nine years. And what I always say is when I'm an old Chinese person, I am not Chinese at all. You can't see that on a podcast. But I'm like, when we're old Chinese people, we're going to be doing Tai Chi in the park. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm actually Norwegian. That's the end game. And. Oh, you're Norwegian. I'm Norwegian. So it's your other side of your family is Spanish or? No, I have. No, I don't have. Just Norwegian family. I thought you said you had extended family in Spain. They are Norwegian and they have a place in Spain. Okay, cool. All right. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I did say that. I'm sure a lot of Norwegians probably have a place in Spain if they can afford it. You are correct. You are very correct. But one of the things that I love about my martial arts practice is part of the kung fu. That I'm learning is sword form, and I love it. So any of my online presents, I have photographs of me with my sword, and I love it. It's all about presence. It's all about purpose. It's all about really, you know, because you've got a three foot sword. Sword, you're swinging around, you're practicing at home. And if Mark's doing the same thing, that's six feet of metal rolling around and you really have to pay attention and you really have to have a lot of presence and purpose with that. So yeah. So that's the, that's the late chapter. That's the late chapter. Yeah. That's where I'm going in 40 years, but you can take, take us back in the time machine wherever. No, that's good. That's good. That's good. I, I was just reflecting, this is a dumb little memory, but years and years ago before I met Well, I met Jill, my wife, now, but before we started dating or anything, I lived with these two girls. And somewhere, somehow, I found like a garage sale or something? Like a practice martial arts sword? A wooden one? What? Like a, like a Three foot, four foot, wooden sword. It had a blunt edge, but it was, like, it was an amazing weapon. And I gifted that to the girls, because I was living in the basement, and I was like, well, here's your defensive weapon. Because, you know, we were young people, and they never lived far away, and whatever. Anyway, so, yeah, I don't know why, but, uh, What a piece of wood that was. Oh yeah. Like the balance of it, I remember it was just like this finely crafted piece of wood. You must have had a good one, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I got it at a pawn shop or whatever it was. I was broke as a joke, so I'm sure I didn't spend any money on it. But it was, I wonder where it is today. My sword, I really like, so it's funny too. So I have a, Is it sharp? No. Okay. No, it's a practice. It's a play sword. Yeah. Yeah. But, but I, it is so fun. You'd have to really be trying to kill Mark with it. We could, we could hurt each other or really, really make a mess of our house. Or your relationship. Yeah. I mean, so you get, so. You know, you could poke your eye out with that thing, right, you know, a little Christmas story thing. But, um, yeah, so the interesting, another interesting thing about it is, so I have a son who's an adult now, and when he was a child, never, ever, ever did I let him play with weapons. He didn't have any guns, he didn't have any toy guns, anything like that. And after he graduated from college, he enlisted in the Army, served in the Army Rangers, two tours in Afghanistan, two combat tours in Afghanistan. Yeah. So I'm like, I got my own weapon now and I get it. I get it. I like it. Let's do a little shorter jump forward. Like, let's just do like. Three years. Cause this is a recent transition. You've worked with, I'm sure some couple of handfuls of clients so far in this specific niche and you've got your kind of online community and whatever, but what do you want this to turn into? Are you want to be the guru of Encore careers? You want to build a team? doing a platform like, or, or is it smaller than that? Just want to build a nice sustainable thing, make impact locally. No, I want to, I want to have global domination, no, not global domination, but I mean, I really do think there's so much room for. People to have an encore career that's really satisfying, to have meaningful work and, and meaningful meaning in what we do and the way that we live our lives, and, you know, have more impact, have more increase and, And so I would say, you know, in three years from now, I would love to have a really large, you know, vibrant online community have, you know, a pretty consistent base of people that I'm working with individually and in small groups and really have that, um, grow because like I said, I think there's a lot of room and a lot of space for people in that, in that area. Yeah, you'll be happier, that's cool. Yeah. Alright, here we are on the actual time machine. Actual time machine. Going backwards this time. Let's go back, okay. Sounds like a helicopter kind of a Okay, two blades are one. Let's take you to Let's take you to like When you started talking, how old were you when your parents told you you started talking? That's a good question. I'm probably one of those children who came out talking. That's what I was thinking. That's why I asked it that way. That's what you were thinking. Okay. I'm guessing like 16 months, you were like asking questions that were Probably, probably. I am also the first grandchild on both of my parents sides. Oh, wow. Interesting. A lot of extra attention there. Lots of attention. Let's go to I'm gonna go with a five year old because you probably have a stronger memory of that time. True. Or maybe even go so, let's go first grade. Proper. Actually we can, we can start at five years old. So I was born in LA. Okay. And I am a fourth generation Californian. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And interestingly, I don't know if you have ever interviewed or if you know Jennifer Lopez, our local Jennifer Lopez. I do know her, but I have never interviewed her. She, yeah, used to own Swallowtail Foods. I don't know that she still does. I recruited her for a local think tank, like, for years before she sold that. Yeah, yeah. So she's cool, though. She's awesome. I try. Yeah, I try. So she is actually My fourth cousin. Okay, alright. And we met here. Oh, fun. In Fort Collins. Uh, so I'm a fourth generation Californian. My family came across the country in covered wagons from Vermont to Southern California. Yeah. Wow. And so that's how Jennifer and I are related. Like at the 49ers days or something like that? Yeah, in the 1840s. And the 1840s, the Norwegians found some Spanish where the Lopez and Ulstrup meet. No, actually, but are you Ulstrup? I'm Ulstrup. Yeah. And so my dad is, um, an immigrant. So I, so I have this. fourth generation, you know, Californian, my family, my mom's name is Hancock. So yeah. Good old blue bloods there. Yeah, there you go. And um, then my dad's family, my dad immigrated here when he went to the U. S., not to Colorado, to the U. S. when he was six weeks old. He was born in Norway. Okay. Lived all over the world. Yeah, I met my mom in college and decided to stay. Hmm, interesting. Yeah, so then, you know, fast forward to me, when I was five, my family moved to the Chicago suburbs. Okay. In the, what I like to call purple, my dad would be like, it is eggplant, but we, we drove a Chevy, I didn't drive, a Chevy Impala cross country. Oh, sweet. Yeah. Moved to Chicago. Yeah. So. Like what took. Your family from, was it L. A. area, did you say? Yeah, L. A. area. To Chicago, like what was that transition all about? My dad, my dad had a job offer. Okay. In Chicago. And what kind of industry, what kind of work? He was in medical sales. Okay. Yeah, he worked for Baxter Travenol at the time. Okay. Yeah, and uh, so we moved there. Yeah, it was, uh, I was five and I do remember, you know, fighting with my sister and stay off of my side, stay off of my side of the car. And um, yeah, we drove the family car again. I didn't drive, but you know, we drove across country and moved to Chicago. My dad's still there. Oh wow. So yeah, I grew up in the Chicago suburbs and uh, And tell me about, uh, like, call it, uh, elementary school, Julie, were you already taking pictures, were you an athlete, were you a smarty pants at school, were you a teacher's pet? Um, so I don't think I was a teacher's pet, because, you know, to your point, I was pretty talkative, but I think I was a pretty good teacher. I mean, I was. I was a pretty good student. I was always the kid. So, the, the photography piece did come into my life. Actually, before I was born, my grandparents owned a camera store in Southern California. So, San Bernardino is where they settled, which is a little bit, um, inland of L. A. Yep. On the way from, uh, toward Palm Desert. There you go. I just went to San Bernardino recently. Did you? I went up to Big Bear Lake. Yeah, there you go. It kind of fringes on that, right? Is that right? Yes. Yeah. So my grandparents owned a camera store before I was ever born and they sold it before I was ever born. Okay. But my grandfather had this love of photography, which he, you know, instilled. I had a little bit of interest. Yes, I had some interest in it. Um, and I have, you know, albums and albums of photographs with the black and white pictures at SeaWorld when we'd go back to visit family or something like that. That kind of thing. So I always have, you know, and I had the little, um, cartridge cassette of film. I actually see that my camera is going to run out of battery soon. Okay. So I'm going to take a pause. Okay. So where did we jump off? Uh, we were in Chicago. Oh yeah. So I went to elementary school in the Chicago suburbs. And I think that I, you know, I was a pretty good student. I had the love of photography from my grandfather. My grandfather had a camera store that he sold before I was born. Um, but you know, very much the entrepreneurial spirit kind of thing. Um, you know, and it's interesting as I say that my grandfather had a camera store, my grandmother was very much a part of it. And I think that's a really interesting piece. Uh, she died not too long ago, maybe five or six years ago. And to the day she died, she would still refer to it as my grandfather's camera store. However, she did all the books, right? You know, it was, it was their store. And I just think that's a, a huge evolution, you know, from the 1950s to where we are now. In, you know, 70 years later. That time I was probably fairly progressive to even let her do the books. I know. I know. So yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And as far as, uh, like, were you sporty? You're, you're pretty tall, uh, were you like one of those girls that in fifth grade was like way taller than all the boys or did that? I, I probably was, but I didn't, I probably really didn't care about that. Not so much so that it mattered to you? No, I, um, I was sporty, but it, you know, I, I played softball. I, I was kind of uncoordinated. Yeah. Uh, when I was in high school, I was a swimmer. Oh. And I, you know, it's interesting too, as I reflect back, I used to swim the 500 free, right? Oh, that's pretty far, right? That's a long distance. Yeah, that's a long distance. And then, um, I started running, I guess, in my 30s. 30s and I started running marathons. Oh yeah. So I've always been this like distance kind of person, high endurance, high distance. I've done triathlons and things like that too. But lungs are more evolved than others. Or you're, well, it's, it's kind of a slow twitch, fast pit switch. Um, you know, some of us, I'm, I'm one of those two that can, like, I could probably just go run five miles right now, even though I haven't run more than a mile in two months, three months. Okay. Yeah. But I could make it. Yeah. Whereas some people, if they ran half a mile, it would be just kill them. Yeah. Those people can typically crush me in a one block sprint. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I'm not built that way. Yeah. So, uh, so you had a sister, you said. I still do. Yeah. Uh huh. Is she younger or older? She's younger. And she always likes to remind me that I'm the older sister. Yeah. You look younger though. Just kidding. She's gonna listen. She's gonna listen. She's gonna come hunt you down. Does she have a name? She does have a name. Her name's Karin. Hi Karin. And, yeah. We'll talk more about you later. Um, and like, uh, tell me about your high school experience a little bit. Were you, like, good grades? Did you have a boyfriend? Like, uh, were you an entrepreneur already? I think you mentioned some kind of entrepreneurial stuff. You were a camera girl. You, maybe. Yeah, I was. I always loved the camera. But did you make money out of it? Already? Um, not in high school. So I, so I, let me, I'll just share a little bit of the evolution of it. Yeah, yeah. So junior high, I was like the awkward, like played the guitar with my social studies teacher at lunchtime, like kind of nerdy, introverted. And I went to high school and my neighbor across the street, Matt Schulte, is like, You gotta meet this girl, Amy Bartolotta. And Amy is still one of my really good friends. I met Amy and I came out of my shell. And she like pulled you out somehow? No, I think so. I went to a pretty unusual junior high school. There was, at least it was for me at the time. There was a lot of like drug use and I just wasn't into that. I, it wasn't something, you know, there was, I was like, yeah, that's just, that's just not my jam. So went to high school. And can you circle me a little bit too? Uh, yeah. No, that's fine. No, that's fine. I graduated high school in 1981. 81. Okay. Yeah. So you're about 10 years older than me. Yeah. So, um, went to high school. So yeah, that wasn't really very common in those days. I mean. No. I mean, marijuana was like the devil. In junior high. It's my junior high. Oh, yeah. Like Nancy Reagan, right? Right. Yeah. Exactly. Just say no. Just say no. Yeah. They're like, whatever, Nancy. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever your high school friends were. Yeah. No. And so that, so that was junior high. Um, and I went to high school and I just, I found my groove, right? I found my people. I found my, um, I found my thing. I, I played tennis. I swam. I was very involved in leadership. I was on the class council and then I was like the president of my senior class. And yeah, I did, I did like all the things like I did. All the things in high school, but I got good grades. Was it your bestie girlfriend that kind of helped turn that chapter? Or did you have a mentor? Or who let you believe that you could do all these things? I think it, you know what? I just think I was tired of playing small. Ah, yeah. I was really, you know, I was like, this isn't who I am. This isn't who, I don't, like, this isn't, this isn't me. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm not doing that anymore. And, and my bestie girlfriend too. I mean, she, yeah, she was super fun. and whatever, but even that guitar playing with the social studies teacher at lunch is probably a formative element. You just don't quite know where it fit, right? Right. Well, and I had like this French teacher that was great. I loved my high school, my junior high French class. And interestingly too, I, when I went to high school, I had like the French teacher from hell. He was like the devil. He was, this is like, you know, like as a, as a former educator. Right. So the man was dying of cancer. Oh wow. Right. So, Nobody was going to say or do anything to, you know, curb his behavior, right? And it wasn't any of that, but he was just a jerk, right? He was a jerk. And I had people get mean sometimes when they know they're facing. Well, and it was interesting because I came, I changed school districts. My family didn't move, but we changed school districts. So I had learned and I had done very well in French in junior high. And it was like I was starting over. on a different planet in French 2 or 3 or whatever class I was in. And there was this boy in my class, Phil Colletier, who I know is a very successful physician right now. Um, but Phil tortured me and would like feed me the wrong answer, right, in high school. And so, you know, Mr. Holbrook would be like, you know, putting his hand in his forehead and like, ugh. Get it? Right? So anyway, yeah, that was, uh, that was torture, but, but everything else about high school was fun. I, yeah, I was on the swim team and I had, when I was a freshman, I had a boyfriend who was a senior and, After P. E. class, during like, uh, swim team, you know, when we had the swimming unit or whatever, I would curl my hair in Mr. Marshall's math class and have all kinds of fun. Yeah. What's, uh, what's the, did you go off to college? Mm hmm. Yeah, from there. What were your, considerations? I did, I went to the University of Illinois. Okay. Yeah. Pretty much next door or Southern Illinois? Southern Illinois. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Where is that? What town? Champaign Urbana. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Big 10. Big 10. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a good experience. I mean, I For education? No. No. No, no, no, no, no. I have a journalism undergraduate degree. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which is a great undergraduate degree. For sure. It's a BS. It's, you know, it's like a technical I mean, I think even more now, communicating is such a strong skill to have. For sure. Um, you know, it's interesting too, because when I teach my students or if I offer masterclass, which I do, I offer masterclasses, and I talk about AI. Yeah. And, you know, one of the first things I learned in journalism school, what I learned in every single class, what, you know, it was always, always, always check your sources, check your sources, check your sources. Sure. Right? And so now with AI, Yeah. You know where I'm coming from. We have to check our sources. For sure. I was just, uh, working with Alma before you got here. And so we've got this thinker fest thing coming up. You'll see more about it, whatever. And we've got like a. Title, description, key takeaways from our speakers for ThinkerFest. And they're not necessarily journalism majors or experts at communications or whatever either. So we fed their stuff through ChatGPT a little bit just to see what we would get. And it's pretty good. It is. You know, and, and, Like, I know it's pretty good because I'm pretty good, right? Like, I was like, I had a really strong English teacher in high school. I've always, you know, been a grammar Nazi. Like, and so that's an interesting thing is like, I could tell the difference between pretty good and not so good because I'm good at that stuff. But what happens after 20 years of everybody just using that? Well, that, I think that's a huge question. And I think using. You know, it's, it's the analytical skills. It's the thinking skills. And the, I think one of the things that I always teach too, when I teach these AI classes, well, you need to look at it before you put it anywhere else, certainly. Right. And, and take out the weird. AI euphemisms. Like, if I ever see, you know, somebody's, like, spilling the tea about this, I'm like, who says that? That's ridiculous. Where did you get that anyway? Yeah, you got it from chat GPT and everybody knows and then, like, you don't look authentic and you don't look real. Right. Well, and if you get too much of that kind of stuff, then pretty soon, spilling the tea is ubiquitous. And we've just introduced a new phrase that nobody thought of. Friggin actually knows what means. Or ever uses. Because it's weird and random. So anyway, we head off to Champaign Urbana. Shut a head off to Champaign Urbana. Yep. We're rocking the journalism degree and uh. Well, I changed my major like 25 times. Okay. Yeah. And I, and I, you know, it's interesting because like I said, I, you know, grew up, I was born in Southern California. My parents went to the University of Southern California. That's where they met. And, uh, you And during, I think it was between my sophomore and junior year, I was like, I don't, I went and I lived with my aunt and uncle. Okay. In Del Mar, outside of San Diego. Okay. And I had the best summer. Like for the summer. I had the best summer. I took my first surf lessons, which I'm still learning to surf now. It's been a couple minutes, but I'm still learning to surf now. And I was like, I want to go to Pepperdine. Yeah. Forget the University of Illinois. Yeah. I'm done. Well. You know, had I thought about it for a minute and a half, if I would have said I wanted to go to the University of Southern California, my parents would have been like, sure, let's do that. Yeah. But I didn't say that. And so I did end up graduating from the University of Illinois. I had a great experience, great education. Um, I got a job actually right after college working for a studio in Chicago, a photography studio. Um. Um, yeah, and, and, and that was fun. I learned from some really interesting, that must've been quite an operation. You mentioned earlier that you like got promoted up into management, even of that particular business. Actually, that was in high school. That was in college. Um, so I was the camera girl in college and I took pictures at sorority and fraternity parties. So anybody who's maybe of my era would understand that. And then, uh, so I would go to the. Fraternity or sorority party, and I'd take pictures and I'd get a certain number. During the whole party? Oh yeah. Well, however much film I had. How much, uh, Because it was film. Did you have to stay and drink, too? Or you just had to sit there and be like, man, these people are idiots. Well, it was a really good lesson. Optional? Yeah, it was. Usually I did not drink. However, So I would go through a certain number of rolls of film, right? I'd be given a certain number of rolls of film, you know, I would take pictures of two people or pictures of four people, you know, and it was always dark. So I had my flash on automatic, you know, it was a very technical kind of thing. Yeah. Well, so Some parties were more eager to have photographs taken than others, right? If a girl was at a party and her boyfriend didn't know she was at that party, she wasn't eager to have that photograph taken. No, not actually, not so much about that because, you know, it wasn't like digital and everything was going everywhere. The pictures were just going back to the sorority. And they run a sheet and then people could order them, right? Okay. So I did that for, I don't know, maybe a semester. And then I moved, that's where I moved into management. So this was like, you worked for this business that did that service for fraternities and sororities. Memory Lane Photography. Okay. So a little bit like the ring sellers from back in the high school days or whatever. They just had this specific niche that they offered. Yes. Uh, here's where you're. fraternity, sorority, memory book actually. No. So what it was is they were, um, so I would take pictures on a Saturday night. They'd all get processed and sent out to a lab. And then the little tiny pictures that were the size of a negative would show up on a strip. On a cardboard thing, get delivered, and I didn't do any of this part. Sure, sure. They'd get delivered to the sorority or the fraternity, and people would order pictures from them. And they would look at it probably through a microfiche or something, even almost, if they wanted to. Oh, no, yeah, no, we were 18 to 21. You could, yeah, yeah, you could see if you wanted the picture to, yeah. Oh, so it's a little bit more like, uh, The tourism thing where they're snapping your pictures when you're on a roller coaster or whatever, that kind of thing. But not digital, right? There was all that, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, it's so funny to think about those, like, I shot a bunch of disposable cameras worth of stuff. I never owned a camera, like, that put film in it. Oh, yeah. I was kind of in that era where, you know, digital wasn't really there yet, but I didn't have any money for a camera. Yeah, no that that all of my so all of my photography started actually back in high school and I had a you know Like my my real photography my grandparents got me a DSL not a DSLR a single lens reflex camera Yeah, and I took a photographer. I took three years of photography, which is the most I could take when I was in high school At a brilliant teacher, Mr. Herman, he used to teach at, um, the Art Institute of Chicago. And we would go down on these field trips to the university, to the Art Institute of Chicago and like pass around original Henry Cartier Bresson and Ansel Adams and like, so you want to talk about lighting a fire and. It was super cool. And then, and then went to college, had 14 different majors at the University of Illinois, got into journalism, you know, did the photography thing at memory lane studio. Yeah. That's funny. I haven't thought about that in a while. And I did have to, you know, fend some. People off sometimes with men, with my uh, flash. I would, you know, like the drunk fraternity guys who didn't have a date for the dance. Right, right. You know, and I would But you're a single gal at this time? Oh yeah, I was, I was in college. Yeah, yeah. And so I would uh, You know, like if the guys tried to pick me up or whatever and got a little too aggressive, I would just like accidentally flash the flash in their face in their drunken, you know, and then I had a deer in the headlights and I was good to go. It's pretty hard to recover from a flash in the eyes. And especially, you know, a drunken, at a dark, drunken place, 19, 20 year old. Yeah. You got 20 seconds to get away. Really? More than that. That was good. And that's part of the reason that, and then I walked home. Right. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, so talk to me about like the transition, I guess, to education, like, or to Colorado. I have no idea where your, where your journey goes, but yeah. So, um, so I married my college sweetheart and we moved actually to Colorado Springs. Okay. I had a sales job that I, I loved and I did really well. This was like at the breakup of the baby bells. Okay. Uh, worked in sales. So you were selling Bell? I was selling, um, like alternate phone service. And I would, I would do, um, Oh, cause that was kind of the rise of, oh yeah, other systems, right? Other, yeah. And so I would, you know, go in and I'd analyze the bill and do all of that kind of good, kind of stuff. Almost like a merchant services thing, but way more legit at the time. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what you've been paying. And here's what we can do with it. Well, like, remind me some of the companies that were forming up at that time. Oh my gosh. So, the company that I worked for, wow, this is like so far back. So, I worked for TMC, was the name of the company, and I lived in the Springs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, my first It was just a small little regional player that emerged out of that chaos. And then, and then they, yeah, then they sold to a big, you know, right? It's like Right. They become a monopoly. They break it up, and then they just re monopolize a little bit. Exactly. Yeah, that's what happened. I wonder, do you think anything will happen with Google? Like if they get found in this antitrust to be breakup worthy? It'll never happen. I don't know. I don't know if you heard about that, but there was a Department of Justice suit recently that found that their behavior by, like they pay 30% Or something to Apple for people that do stuff through the App Store or something, but for Apple to put Google on their, like, home page like it was found to be a monopolistic practice and they're guilty of acting like a monopoly as of, like, a month ago, which is the first time Google's ever faced that kind of attention. I, you know, who knows? But there's certainly, you know, No less dominant than Mob L was. Right. Right. I don't know. Anyway, we'll see. Yeah. That's a sidebar. Um, so you're in the springs. You're doing the young marriage. Your husband's doing his thing. Yep. Uh, do you have children? I do have children. Of your first marriage? Yep. Okay. I have a daughter who was born in the Springs. Okay. Yep. And she now lives in South Denver. She just moved actually to Parker. She was living in Central Park. Okay. But yeah, and she has a family. They just recently moved to Parker. Um, and I have a son. Yeah, the son who could never play with weapons. Right, right, right. Who decided to join the army. That was not born in the Springs though? He was not. He was born in Chicago. So after, after I lived in the Springs, uh, I lived in Chicago and that there, I worked at the University of Chicago. Still married during this time? Still married. Yeah. Yeah. My ex husband, uh, got his MBA at the University of Chicago. I worked at the University of Chicago. Smart kids worked there. I actually was, uh, entertaining the idea of an economics degree at Chicago. University of Chicago back in the day. Yeah, yeah. So when we were But they wouldn't take me. I'm just kidding. Well, when we were there, it was a very, um, very, very nerdy Totally. Place. You know? Very high intellect. Yeah. I think I could If you get your MBA there, somebody will hire you for too much money. Yeah. I think also, though, there was, um, Like, the undergrad was, the undergrad population was just not really connected to anything other than academics. Right. You know, brilliant, brilliant people. No, I think that's 100 percent accurate. They were academics, but they never really Like their theories that they came out with, at least from the school of economics. Oh. Generally proved to be bullshit in the real world. And it probably was that way with some of their other stuff too. I've shifted my perspectives. Interesting. So I worked there. My kids were really little. like, actually my son was a newborn and my daughter was like two. And I worked, um, I did, worked in student activities and I grew a program. I taught aerobics and then I grew the program. You know, the, and I can't remember the, guy who I worked for. But he became he was friends with another friend of mine who stayed in Chicago. And anytime I would visit her, she'd be like, Oh, yeah, I know his first name, right? Ray asked about you, because I really helped to grow the whole student services program at Idaho noise hall. Yeah. I think that's one of those. You know, kind of when I realized that, you know, I, I can get stuff done, I can, I can make things happen. I can grow things. Can move people, can make things happen. You know, I think that's such an interesting observation on the world at large, like there's so many people that things happen to, and there's other people that make things happen. And if you start to believe in yourself as a person that can make things happen instead of someone that things happen to, it's a big shift. Oh yeah. Well, I think it's a. I think it's, it's that belief system, right? If, if you believe something happens to you, to me, that's a victim mentality. And I've never really, you know, like when you even asked about when I went to high school, like, what was it? I never thought anything happened to me in junior high. I was just kind of quiet and didn't want to deal with that thing. Um, yeah, but then at the University of Chicago, I also taught at Northwestern that summer, uh, same thing. I it was for People who were like, older people, MBAs, you know, like older, they're probably. Well, it's really your niche communication skill again, that kind of goes back to your ability to identify specific people that need to hear this message and now hear it. Yeah. Anyway, that's at least what I'm kind of thinking about as far as not to put you in a box, Julie. No, but you're right. That's kind of where I'm starting to see your area of brilliance, we'll say. Zone of brilliance is better than putting you in that box. Yeah, yeah. So, so you're starting to really kind of believe in that element of yourself, I guess. Yeah. And, uh, Yeah, and like, what's next? University of Chicago, uh, moved to Indianapolis, uh, after that, and, uh I guess because your husband got a good job, I hope? Yeah, he did, yeah. Because otherwise, why would you move to Indianapolis, really? I mean, except for the football team, you guys rock. You know, so it was, um, really good people in Indianapolis. That too. Really, really good people. I'm from North Dakota, just for, you know Those of you in Indianapolis saying, well, at least I'm not in North Dakota, yeah, exactly. You know, yeah, here's the thing too, and this is something that I feel like I have really learned from my parents. My parents traveled a lot, as I said, my dad lived all over the world, and whenever they would travel, they'd come home and they'd be like, we met the nicest people, I'm like, You met the nicest people because you're the nicest people, right? And so like I moved to Indianapolis and I made this great, you know, built this great community of friends. Um, and I had a job opportunity at Butler University and I worked there in, um, in the admission office and I grew and built this program that was called the STARS program and it was Student Telecounseling Ambassador and at the time it was cutting We were calling, I wasn't, I had a, I, when I started. You were promoting this thing. Actually, I was, um, so I came in, I worked for the director of admission, and there were students coming in every, like, four nights a week, calling prospective students. Imagine that. Massive piles of paper, right? With paper notes on them. You know, no system, no organization. And so I worked with a computer person at the university and we systemized the whole thing. We had like very specific calling protocols of when we were going to call the students. Are you going to come to admitted student day? Are you going to come to this? Are you going to come to that? Totally. And so I worked with probably 15 students, we grew, we built a, like a student center where they would, you know, yeah. So it was super, I loved it. It was like, you know, having all these younger brothers and sisters working for me. Well, and you, you cater well to delegation, it seems. Yeah. I love delegating stuff. I love delegating stuff I don't want to do. Right, right. Well, it was a lot of hands that needed to be aligned for that to really make a difference. It It's, you could only really do so much, but what's kind of a vision for where we could move these stacks of paper to being actually an effective solution? A hundred percent. And the reality is too, is that no, you know, my daughter, after she graduated from undergrad, like she worked on the recruiting team for the company that she worked for. And after she was there, like two or three years, they're like, Oh yeah, you're too old. Nobody wants to talk to you. Cause you're like, you know, cause she'd like aged out of being, being the cool kid at McKinsey, right? But like, I mean, I was like 15 years out of college at that. I don't know, 10 years out of college. No, like that's not cool. Right. So they were talking to perspective students, current students. They were super cool. But I, you know, I had to like guide them and be like, this is what you can talk about. This is what we're not going to talk about. Right. Well, and here's just a basic. for what's upcoming. You don't, we don't want you guys winging it with every call. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. So I built that program. It was awesome. And that's, that's where I got my master's degree in school counseling. And I remember, Oh, so school counseling, I had forgotten. I was thinking you were a teacher, teacher, but no, more in that moment. Okay. Yeah. So, um, I got my master's degree and I remember I was so. This is like embarrassingly arrogant. I started a job before I'd actually finished my master's degree. So I had two young kids. Um, I was, started working full time and I was doing my internship and I decided to be president of the PTO that year. And I, I started this job at a middle school and, um, I had the job of two full time people. They put those two jobs together. And I got one full time job that was two full time jobs. Yeah. Normal. Of course I did. Yeah. Of course I did. Yeah. With some jobs it works, but if they actually had jobs, then it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, just implosion of self, too many things? No. No. I, I mean, I thrived in that. Like, I did all the things. Like, all the T's got crossed. Everything worked. Everything worked. Um, and I worked with the sixth graders. Um, I, you know, it was interesting because one of my, one of the people who I worked with, I was a, it was sixth, seventh and eighth grade middle school. And so I worked with the sixth graders. That's like a huge transition year, right? You know, like they're all coming in and all this kind of thing. And the woman who, I had worked with her at the university when I was getting my master's degree. She had this like great reputation, but in the real world. She had a horrible reputation. Like she never did anything like she. Interesting. Anyway. So I started working at the school and everybody saw me as her protege and I got lit up. I mean, people were like, you know, they thought that I was like her and I wasn't going to do anything. And I, and I had this great mentor at that school and worked with, anyway. So yeah, that was interesting. Moved to, uh, I was there for four years. Moved to Fort Collins got a job right away with your husband's job. Yes Yep, yeah, and I then worked at Lincoln Middle School So, yeah, worked at Lincoln Middle School, right away I got a job, like two days before school started. I interviewed. Oh, wow. Yeah, I interviewed. My principal was amazing. Lou Marchesano. Sometimes still in Northern California. Well, they were desperate probably, too, right? So you got a job two days before school started. Yeah, they had a new principal. I had, it was a great situation for me. I was on a team that really wanted to, have some, you know, make some changes and do some really cool things for kids. Remember where Lincoln is? Lincoln's in, uh, northern Fort Collins. Okay, yeah. I know I've seen it. I've been there even. I can't, I just couldn't remember which one it was. Yep. Um, so, and you moved to Fort Collins just with your husband's work? Yep, my He graduated I guess got his master's or something or what was he doing? So, uh, at the University of Chicago, he got his MBA and then moved to Indianapolis. He worked for Eli Lilly for a while, a guiding company, and then, um, got let go from there and, uh, needed to find something else to do. So he was hired by Swift, JB Swift. Oh, wow. Uh, at the time, and so we moved here. We were like, we were thrilled because, you know, living in Fort Collins is a great place to live. For sure. As you know. Like, totally. People never leave here and you're like, this is sweet. Yeah. This is awesome. Right. You know, again, had a great experience in Indianapolis. Got my master's degree there. You know, my kids lived there for many. Yeah, It was really good there. And then moved here and I was like, Oh yeah, this is good. I don't care if you like your job better or not, honey. And you loved your job right away. Did you like the school counseling? Oh yeah. So I had worked as a school counselor, um, before I finished my degree. I was offered a position and that's when I had the two positions. Yeah. And so, um, I worked as the district coordinator for experiential education, which was challenge education, a low ropes and a teams course. I built that program like, I don't know, like 20, 000 percent in, in four years. Yeah. I mean, I just grew it and did a bunch of outreach and so grew that in the district and, uh, yeah, then moved out here. worked at Lincoln Middle School. Like I said, we had a great admin team. And then after, I don't remember how long I, I really had ever since I worked at Butler, I knew I really wanted to help students with their college admission process. I thought that that would just be, you know, put them in the right spot, put them in the right spot, help them from the beginning. So when I worked at Butler, like that's really what we did. We helped them. You know, is this the right place for you? And there's, there still are many. Children, you know, high schoolers who don't know what they don't know about what they need to do to get into college. And I thought, if I can work with students when they're younger, you know, not not junior high necessarily, but work with them when they're in high school. to put them on that path, to give them the confidence, to give them the courage, to give them the self esteem, and to create that vision for them that like, yes, you can go to college. Especially like first generation students. And there were a lot of those. Students from rural places, things like that. You know, I remember when I went to college, I was, I was like the smartest Kid from my grade from a really tiny I graduated with five kids in North Dakota. Oh, wow So I was sure every kid at college was gonna be smarter than me And it took me like two years to figure out that that wasn't true interesting, you know and So like the right person at the right time could have really Change that timeline. Yeah. Yeah. So then I started they started at the high school and And that was good. And and then and then I had the sabbatical. I had the sabbatical right and that was that was Huge for me. I realized that doing something with that. I did, you know, I loved photography for so many years Like, you know, I said I go back to the little camera. I didn't know how I could do something that would make a difference. Like pretty, pretty pictures are great, but like that wasn't, that just wasn't my thing. I wanted really more to have, to be able to create transformational experiences. And so I started doing that part As an educator, and then there came a time when I was like, yep, I'm going full time. I'm going to do this. Yeah. Well, and it seems like that transformational experiences thing, like in some ways, like that's your, your sabbatical consolidated into, you know, A shorter experience. And, and quite honestly, it's like, it's my life, you know? I mean, it's like, I have reinvented myself so many times. You've reinvented a bunch of other organizations as well. Yes. Um, yeah, I was just thinking to myself that if you could, uh, help me transition to full time podcaster and find me a good CEO that would blow Loco Think Tank up, maybe we should, you know, I'm not sure that, I mean, that is my encore career, but we got a little work to do probably here. I think, well, doing what I want to do more of. And what is that? Is it podcasting? I think like for me, the, the, a dream job of the future that, you know, when I'm old or even 10 years from now or five years from now, or tomorrow would be traveling the country and finding other people in other communities that should help establish local think tanks there. I think that's brilliant. Um, and I'm just not quite sure how to go about it yet. Uh, and so, uh, we could probably figure that out. I'm sure we could. We're figuring it out a little bit at a time, but I could perhaps accelerate my transition. I don't know. Maybe we'll see. Um, so anyway, so, um, to get back to your journey and really, I was like, we're getting back close to. Becoming a full time photographer, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. Um, and how long did that idea simmer? Like, did you come back from your sabbatical going, I think I'm gonna Turn a page here? No, no, no. I mean, I, I came, I came back and I said, I'm going to start a photography business. Okay. Like this is something I love. This is something I want. This is something I'm good at. I have, I have, what was those four things that you had to line up? Uh, what do you love? What are you good at? What can you get paid for and what the world needs? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I just, I didn't know. Diane von Furstenberg has some kind of quote about like, I didn't know how, but I always knew the woman that I wanted to be. Yeah. Right. And like for me, it's always been that element of transformation and I didn't really realize how I could do that with photography. So I got a mentor. I worked, you know, I learned as much as I could. Yeah. And um, you know, started, started working as a photographer. And then, uh, pretty quickly sounds like we've got a pretty successful business of it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and loved and still love every minute of it. Love all of the branding, love the transformation that when people see these photographs of themselves, they're like, I mean, I have a, a friend, a lot of times my clients become friends and my, you know, my friends have also become clients and a client said to me, she said, you know, I, I'm a writer. But she didn't really see herself as a writer until she saw her photographs, right? You know, so there's something really powerful, nearly 90 percent of everything that we, our brain processes in any moment is visual. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. So having photographs of that vision of who you want to become and, and literally like That vision of yourself through someone else's lens is really, really powerful. And which is why in, in my private coaching and consulting, a photo shoot is part of that because being able to see that. I really find it interesting that, like, a lot of your early successes with, were organizationally. Like you would see a problem with an organization, how it was doing things, you know, the calling things and different things and find a better way. Yeah. And I suppose you could say that, if you zoom it up, you'd say that I see that same problem in our society now. But, You've kind of zoomed into a much more relational kind of engagement that's got the same leverage, right? Because each of these people that you help could start a business that employs people, that changes lives, that makes an impact. Well, I believe everything that we do, if we choose to, we can change the world for good. Yeah. Like, for good. You know, I, I saw, uh, Mark and I went to see Wicked a couple of weeks ago, right? And there's, there's a song in there that of like, because I knew you, I've been changed for good. Yeah. And, and that's my, like, I think that, like, I don't work with people who just want to like, grind it out or whatever, right? Like I work with people who really have a passion and a purpose for what they do and want to, want to see the world better as a better place. I feel like, you know, there's a lot of doubt and a lot of fear in our country, in our world right now. And if, if we can really stay centered and grounded in who we are. Yeah. Well, in all of us, if all of us just work to make the world a little bit better, Yeah. Like the world would get better. For sure. And I think the world does get better. Well, but it's the fear and the, the kind of grasping ness of people that are concerned about getting their fair chance at the world. Yeah. That's where the harm comes in usually. Yes. Or the neglect. Yeah. Of all those things. That seems like a good transition point to our, uh, closing segments. Okay. Faith, family, politics. Where would you like to start? Let's start with family. Okay. Um, let's start with your sister. Okay. Uh, let's give, uh, give a shout out to her and, uh, just talk about your relationship a little bit. Okay. So I'm the older sister. My sister, Karin, uh, lives in the Chicago suburbs. Oh, my gosh. She has. So she this is this is an interesting thing. She came to the University of Illinois after I did. Right. And so we we did a little bit of college together. And, uh, She has an engineering undergraduate degree. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And, uh, she did it for a couple of years. She did very well. She was very successful and she didn't want to do it anymore. She was doing litigation consulting and it was freaking just draining her. And she, she had always had this dream of being a physician, of becoming a doctor. I was like, so, you know, probably over a bottle of wine or two. Um, you know, she, she was like, yeah, but when I graduate, so she had this engineer, I have this engineering degree. I can't be a doctor. Yeah. She had an engineering degree. She'd worked, she'd worked in engineering for, I don't know, five, seven years, something like that after college. Right. So she was, she was not 30 yet. Right. And she's like, yeah, but if I go to med school now, I'll be. However, like somewhere in her 30s, when she graduated, right, like, that was like, oh, so dramatic, right? And I was like, Well, in seven years, you're going to be 34 anyway. That's what I said to her. And so she did end up, you know, she, she left her career, a very successful engineering career. Uh, she went to, in fact, interestingly, she spent some time as I did. She lived in San Diego for a while and, um, took some classes at the university of San Diego. And then yeah, when she did not do a sabbatical in Spain, but yeah, Yeah, and then, uh, went to Georgetown, got her medical degree, and is back in Chicago practicing medicine at Northwestern University. I'm super proud of her. She does really good things in the world, yeah. One of the things we always do is, uh, one word descriptions of your children. Uh, are you comfortable with that, Tess? Oh, yeah. One word descriptions? Well, you can expand after that, but, uh, just a one word bucket if you can. Hyphens are allowed, but not encouraged. Okay. I would say, remarkable teachers. Oh, are you trying to do the teachers? Yeah, I will do, I will do both of them together. And I can, I can expand on each of them if Sure, yeah, I might cry. That's okay. Yeah. I got tissues right underneath the table here. Okay, next to the tequila. Actually, they're not there, but I will get you a tissue if I see you need it. I, it's, you know, I was a counselor and I used to always say to my students, um, something that my grandmother, my grandmother in Norway would say to me. Um, like if kids would cry, you know, they'd be all upset, they'd be trying to dry their tears or whatever. And my grandmother, my Norwegian grandmother, was very proper. My, um, grandfather was a diplomat, right? Oh, wow. Yeah. But she was very proper. But if anybody ever farted, she'd always be like, Oh, better on the outside than on the inside. Right? Yeah. Very pragmatic as well. Right, right. So I would tell my students if they were crying, like crying, the tears are better on the outside, right? Right. And it would always be better. bring a laugh. Oh, that's really nice. And it's true. I like that. Anyway, so my children, um, I'm, I'm super, super proud of who my children are and where they are. Um, and it's interesting because they, we've, we've certainly had a journey together as all. Parents and children do. Uh, we moved here when my daughter, into northern Colorado when my daughter was in starting 10th grade and my son was starting 8th grade. Okay. And they did great. They transitioned. So they were pretty old before you and your Yeah. First husband relationship. Yeah. Yeah. So my daughter was a senior in high school and my son was a sophomore in high school. And that was really, really difficult. It was really difficult. And quite honestly, it was part of the impetus of why I decided to go to Spain. They were both in college at the time when I was in Spain, but I was just like, I need to get out of here and get a different perspective. Um, You know, for anybody who has children, you know that it's hard, um, raising children and it's hard divorcing and keeping it all together and they have created these lives for themselves that are Remarkable. And I'm super, super proud. No, they're certainly not. Um, I'm super proud of who they are and who they're becoming and, and what they do in the world. So yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about your first husband. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Thanks. No, let's talk about this guy, uh, Mark that you found, uh, where did he come along in the conversation and, uh, what made you say yes to a second date invitation? What made me say yes to the second date? Well, he was super, super kind. Our first date was at the Rio. Okay. Here's, this is a great story. You got wasted at the Rio and he didn't take advantage. That's kind of him. No wasted Thoreau. No wasted Thoreau. All right. All right. However, so we met, you know, we, we met like the old fashioned way on match. com. Okay. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, a couple of phone calls. We're going to meet at the Rio and we closed the Rio. Nice. On a Sunday night. Well, that's a little earlier, but. Yeah. Yeah. That probably means you didn't have three margaritas. Did not have three margaritas. Had a great conversation. Yeah. Um, super nice guy. We real, we'd both been single for about eight or no, probably like nine years, ten years at that point. Yeah. And um, so he asked me for a second date like three other times during the week. And I, I was on. You know, Match. com. I had other dates and other things going. I'm sorry I booked out, baby. Yeah, I was, I didn't call him baby. Oh, right. Not yet. Uh, so the But you did have an inkling that he was more special than some of those others? Or not necessarily yet? Not yet. Not, not after the first date. Like, he was super kind. Right, right. He was so So, you know, I'm very smart. I'm very attracted to Persistent as well, obviously. Yes. I'm very attracted to intelligent men. That is Yeah, alright. Yeah, that's my thing. And so, um I like to say, uh, one of my special talents is beautiful women love me. Oh! There you go! And beauty isn't just pretty. It's like pretty and smart and Like deep. And selfless. Confident and all those things. Yeah. And thankfully, you know, I've been married for 20 years and that's part of why they love me.'cause I'm not a'cause you're a good guy. Jackass. You know, I'm not Yeah. Inappropriate. Well, I'm inappropriate, but not in a way that's insulting. Wait, you said, you said you're like not a fun guy. You said you're a Nikki guy. A creepy guy. Creepy, yeah. Well, that's, yeah, I don't think you're creepy. I, I try not to be. You're creepy. Anyway, so anyway, so Mark gets this second date after you've dated like three other. Guys, you got full calendar, just different, different random different random dates. And so we have a second date on, I think it was the following, maybe it was two, it doesn't matter. Um, but he planned this, like, so he picks me up in his very clean truck, which now I know is. It's very much an anomaly. Right, right. Because his truck is never clean. He cleaned it that day, like two hours before. For two hours, probably. Right. It took him to clean it. And he had this, like, huge plan, right? Like we went out for dim sum and then we went to the, uh, and we went to Denver and we went to the, um, Denver Museum of Natural History. Sure. And he had, like, movie tickets and the show tickets and all these super cool things. And all things that were, you know. Picked up on little cues that you learned from your first date. Yes, exactly. I suspect. And, interestingly, on the way down there, he had a cooler in the back of the truck, and it had like a coffee, like a mocha, something in the back, right? And I'm a coffee drinker. Yeah, yeah. I mentioned, I don't know if I did it on the air, but that I drink coffee. Um, you know, have two double espressos in the morning. And he had, I'm like, Oh, he heard me. Being heard and being seen are pretty powerful. And pursuit is also helpful. Yeah. And so, so that was our second date and it was actually on his birthday. Oh, fun. Yeah. And how long before it was like exclusive. Oh, pretty quickly. Like, the next day. Yeah, a couple weeks. Yeah, yeah. A couple weeks. Yeah, we were. Yeah. Only three or four more dates with random dudes and I was like, I'm done with that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's that. Yeah. Um, anything else in the family bucket that you'd really like to celebrate or, you know, you've talked about your granddad and grandma in different ways a little bit. Yeah. I feel like I've had a really, um. You got no grandbabies yet? I don't. I do have grandbabies. Oh, well, good. Let's talk, let's talk about them. We could have given them a lot more descriptions. How, I'm like, how much time do you have if you've ever talked to a grandma before you'd know? Yeah, so, um, I have. Well, mark has three grandsons. Okay. So we have like a, the Brady Bunch Grand. We have grandsons. Yeah. On the grand, the grandbaby thing. Grand level, right? Yeah. Yeah. My daughter has three grand grandsons. One's a bonus, and he, so he was okay, uh, five when they were born, and he's amazing. He's a freshman in high school and then a 5-year-old and a 3-year-old, and they're just. So much fun. Five and three quarters and three and three quarters as, you know, at that age. Right. Very important. And they're just, yeah, so much fun. And it's just like a whole different ball game of fun. Right. When you have grandkids. Totally. Totally. Yeah. It's great fun. So, yeah. Let's, uh, you, you referenced It's kind of from adjacent, the crazy world we live in from a political and anxiety spectrum. You want to go there next? Is that? Sure. Of interest? Yeah. I mean, to me, quite honestly, I. I'm not, I always think that's funny when people say that, right? Like I haven't been honest with you this whole time, but now I'm going to say quite honestly, I have been honest with you the whole time to be, to be really clear. Um, you know, like to me, if each of us can live in a way that we're aligned with, I know I, we've talked a little bit about your politics, but I feel like If each of us live in a way that we feel aligned with, that we feel good about, like, that's a, I feel like politics and religion are, are kind of those things that are so individual that, that how can, how can we categorize like this or this? Like, it's not or, it's and, it's pieces, it's parts. I like this. I feel aligned with. Being a pedophile? No, that's not okay. That's right. That's not okay. That's not legal. Well, but, but I'm saying that there's a lot of things about our lifestyle choices like, um, that aren't necessarily for own good. Right. Um, or not, you know, what the world wants, what the world needs, what you're good at and what, right. If you can have that kind of a perspective, I think. That would be okay. And I do. Yeah. Unfortunately, I feel like too many people have a very either self absorbed or others harming perspective. Yeah. Potentially. Or at least inconsiderate of others. Good. Yeah. Um. So, okay. So I want to, I want to let you unfold that more. Yeah. And, and to me, that's just, that's not aligned with our human potential. It's not aligned with who we're meant to be. It's not aligned with why we're on the planet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, it's all, it's the, It's the reality of love and fear, and fear is a lack of love. And, and, you know, it's Is it? Yeah. I don't, I don't know that I believe that fear is a lack of love. I feel like fear is something different than that. So there are traditions that will enforce that, that love, that love is all there is. And that everything's not love is, uh, or anything that's not love. Isn't real. So fear isn't real? And we, we, it's a, it's a construct. Interesting. Now I will also share with you what I know from science is that the only things, the only two things that we are born with a fear of, do you know what they are? Snakes? Spiders and snakes? No. Is it? No, no, no. And being alone? Nope. I don't know. Uh, loud noises. Yeah. And high places. Heights. Hmm. Interesting. Those are the only two things that we're born with a fear of. Hmm. And yet, like, I can walk on the edge, and I've always been able to walk on the edge of a high place or climb a tree as high as I wanted without having any fear of that. Mm hmm. I've been fucking terrified of snakes, or spiders, but snakes especially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it's, it's something that you've learned and, and you've, and there's probably a way that you learned not to be afraid of fear because that, that, those are two fears that we're absolutely born with. I think that's one of the markers of my life is I haven't become afraid of fear as much as many people have. So I want to bring it back to, to politics a little bit. Okay. Not to say you dodged the question. I did. I did. Um, like we can just go straight to predictions. We're, we're tomorrow night is the debate. The one that is that, is it okay for, for the presidency of the United States to have only one debate where. Americans get to, kind of, evaluate the candidates? I'm, I'm, I'm engrossed out by that, frankly. It really irritates me, and I'm not bla laying any blame because, Yeah. Like, there was a time just like two weeks ago where Kamala was like, anytime, anywhere, we'll bring it! You know, whatever. And so I have no idea what the politics of this whole thing is, but The politics of the politics center? Like, why can't we Frickin see these candidates, like, talk to each other. And, yeah. And, and do they really, excuse me, do they really even talk to each other during a debate? Right, no, it's all sound clips and stuff. I mean, it feels like we're just watching a big theater. Yeah. Honestly, with, in my opinion, kind of a, what, the deep state apparatus, like, choosing which wing of the bird flaps at what time, kinda, I don't know. You know, it's interesting to me because historically, I like to, I like to read a lot, you know, Thomas Jefferson, you know, Hamilton, you know, the founding fathers, the founders, the mothers, you know, and the stories behind what happened historically in our country. And I think that it's, it's just, it's at a different level. We're in a different place now, with 340 million people in this country, it's a whole different kind of experience than what they could have imagined. Yeah, and, and the, the debates back and forth, back in the day, you know, it was, it was a different time. You know, to your point of sound bites and sound clips and, you know, we're bombarded with it. And, and so having a debate, like, does it matter if there's a debate or not? Let's talk about, is there like a way to get To a more unified America, like, because this grosses me out the way we have it right now. I think it's intentional. I think there has to be a way. I think when I believe. Let me say it this way. Yeah, yeah. I believe that our commonality unifies us more than our differences divide us. I really, really do. I think that's the way we're designed. And I think our current politics is designed to separate that from truth. And I, and I don't think that that's healthy and I don't think that that's good. And I think that something has to change because yes, if we, if we look at humanity, the way that we're designed to live in community, you know, that's it. And, and let's like give and take, you know, you look at any research, you look at any truth about who we are as human beings. Like, let's look at that. Is there, um, rather than taking an issue, is there a person in the political sphere of the world that you, uh, would hold up as someone that you respect quite a bit or even historical person? Yeah, historically, who would I say that would be? Of course, I love the Vikings. Oh, right. But, but they're not, and, and they're not really any great example. Yeah, their politics was, uh, do you want to die or do you want to be, like, subject to this? Yeah. Um, you know, that's a great question that I haven't really thought about. I probably could. Well, and you're such a I probably could type in my answer. Like, I could share with you later. So, who would you like our next woman president to be? I would like our next woman president to be the next president. So just as it is. So like, for me, I would rather have like a Tulsi Gabbard or Somebody I've seen to buck the system because I feel like the system is the problem than the current candidate, um, for our presidency. I feel like she's kind of more of a product of the system than somebody that could ever buck the system. Um, you know, and I would love to know who could, who could buck the system and make the system work for us. It'll probably be a man that bucks the system, honestly. And then like, I definitely, I want to see a woman president of the United States and I want it to be somebody I can respect. And if I had a daughter, somebody that can say, live life close to like this person did it. Yeah. That was where, when Hillary was the candidate, I was like, this is grosses me out. If this is our first woman president, I just. Don't like it. And I'm, maybe you're a big fan. I don't know. We can disagree about that. But like, I really feel like that we can have an, it's like, I would rather vote for you and have you be our first woman vote for you. I, you know. I, I could identify as a woman and be our first woman president. How do you feel about that in the politics realm? Like. So I will, I will say, so my son and my daughter and I, we have had these conversations about like, we probably, each of us, and Kurt, probably you and I. No. Yeah. Ten people who would be better presidents than the current candidates. Oh, for sure. I, I know a thousand people. Yes! At least. So, how many episodes have you done, right? Like Right, right. But, but it's Well, so what's We don't I'm gonna jump because we're It's over After five already. Okay. We're running late. Because that clock is The batteries started dying last week. It's 20 minutes up. And, and I don't know the solution because, because there's somebody who's More has more political savvy than me right who does have the solution, but I think somebody that's gonna bring us together Right. Well, that's um, because we are we're meant to be that way. Yeah, I do not disagree with that at all. Yeah Faith we've talked a little bit about Tai Chi about Spain about Norway But I don't know that we have talked much faith in our yeah, so, you know the the idea of You Love is stronger than fear is really is the heart of it is the heart of it Yeah. And I, I try not a particular philosophy. You or do you have a No, I've, um, what do they call that? Uh, when you mixed all the difference? Oh, it was called a suicide. That's probably not an appropriate name for a face remember? Were you there? No, like when I was a kid, if you had like a, if you went to a baseball game and you had like a fountain drink mixer and you could like mix the Mountain Dew with the orange and the Coca-Cola and the root beer, and that was a suicide. Okay. Um, but like. Like, I'm a Christian, and I've learned a lot from some of my study of yoga, from individual study, and some of the even deeper Judaism practices, and Zen Buddhism, certainly, uh, and even Like, I've got some good friends that are Hindu, and I've been kind of a little bit dabbling, and so like, while I'm a Christian, I can appreciate and respect the other influences in the faith conversation in the world. And so that's when I say, uh, a suicide a little bit, because I assume you've got maybe a little bit of some sampling. I don't know. Do you have a faith community right now in your world? I don't have a faith community because, excuse me, both the coughing team here, um, I really That at the core of every religion. It's the same. I really, really do. And so for me to prescribe to one that is, that excludes others doesn't resonate with me. And, and like I said, with politics, I think that politics and religion are, and maybe religion more so than politics, are so personal. Like every religion is as individual as a person is. You know, I, I hear that and I would respectfully say that kind of the purpose of religion is to be above that fray. Um, and the, the, the reason I say that is because, like in some ways I think that you, Utility, the practical utility, say, say, let's say Yahweh, Jesus, Muhammad, all that stuff is baloney, Garnash, or whatever, you know. Um, but I think that the purpose of religion in a lot of respects is to be a unifying kind of thing that everybody kind of points to in that. Yes. Nation state or that civilization or that thing or whatever, right? And I don't disagree with that. Part of what we're struggling with as, as Americans is it used to be very much a Christian oriented country, nation state, and now it's 40 percent that, right? Like it's been, and the rest of it is pointed at seven different things all their own. And, and, and 20 percent is pointing at nothing like, and so, so to me that's the big thing that's been lost in. Um, I guess the, since God has died, is even if God, even if the Christian God isn't right, it's better to be unified in pointing at something than in pointing at a lot of different things. But I don't know. I'm up for conversation on it. Yeah. No. And I appreciate that you're open to the conversation. I don't think that the answer is nothing. I think that the answer is love. God, Yahweh, Allah, Ganesh, whatever, that I've not included, you know, Muhammad, all of them, all of them. Except Muhammad, he's out. In the, no. I'm just playing. You know, in the, like, it, like, point towards love. Yeah, no, that's fair. Point towards love. And if your faith isn't pointing you toward love, then you should perhaps, uh, research a little more. So, I think it's a valid question, I think. It's a valid question, but should, like, I don't want a should on anyone, you know, like, I think in our, in our own heart. Perhaps you could. I could. I could. Yeah. However, who am I? Yeah, well, I think that's part of my own faith is, like, I, I certainly face plenty of doubts. And I've described my faith in the same way is that I think all of the kind of global faith and even the Baha'i or this and that, right? Yeah. They're viewing the same phenomena. Yes. Uh, there's, you know, there's a, there's a uniting force in the universe of some sort that probably set the whole thing off to a spin. We all have some sort of connection to it and even influence upon it. Yes. Through our prayers and communication with it. Yes. Um, from my study and my experience, I think our least dirty lens on what that actual interaction type is for me, at least, is Christianity. I feel like I have the most data and I align most closely with that theory. Yeah. And it's called faith because we can't really know. Yeah. That's right. That's right. We can't. And, and that's, that's the thing that I would say that I believe that love is the strongest as you define force in. But you can love somebody to death. Well, that's a figment, that's a figment of imagination. That's a figure of speech. Well, you kind of can. Like, I'm sure you're familiar with, like, some of C. S. Lewis writing about the nanny state and things like that. Yeah. Uh, you know, you can, like, suffocate. A population, be keeping them safe. Ben Franklin said the same thing, but that, but that's not, that's not love in its truest form. True. And that's, that would, that would be, that would be self-serving. That's fair. That's fair. That's perhaps like with my memberships, we don't have any contracts. We, I, I say we hope, you think you'll be a member for a year when you join? I believe. Why don't you change it To believe. We hope people, I hope people believe. Believe, yeah. Yep, that's perfect, actually, um, and, you know, depart because, you know, if you, if you love somebody, you don't squeeze them, you don't grab them, you hold them, and then there's some free will involved in that love exchange, and that's why love works, whether it's in a romantic relationship or a friendship, is it's a free will offering back and forth, not one squeezing the other. Right, and what do you want? Yeah, do we both continue to win in this relationship? Um, your loco experience. the craziest experience that you're willing to share from your whole lifetime to our listeners. In my whole lifetime? Yeah, some crazy ass experience that you've never told anybody before, including Mark, if you got one of those. Um, near death, uh, you know, a week in the life. Maybe it's your sabbatical. I don't know what your loco, what your crazy experience is. My crazy experience. Loco is kind of, you know, it's like Mexican slang. Yeah, loco. Yeah, I know. I get that. No, it's a real word. My craziest experience. Yeah, yeah. Well, when I was in college, I did I did go to Tijuana and drink margaritas out of a paper cup, but that's not the craziest experience yet. If that was the end of it, no. Did you go to jail? No, I didn't, no. Or find yourself in a cabana with 17 guys and 3 other ladies? No, there was Nothing like that? Alright. No, none of that. Um, oh my craziest, my most loco experience, hmmm. That might be, like, just the one that I can think of off the top of my head is my freshman year in college when I thought it would be a good idea to go out on Halloween. Now, mind you, this is the middle of, well, central Illinois. Central Illinois, cold, right? Like we often wore our winter coats when we went trick or treating. Uh, yeah. Three of my girlfriends and I decided to go as the Go Go's wrapped in towels with towels on our head. That was like when the Go Go's were, you know, a thing. Yeah. So we thought that would, yeah, not super crazy. More frostbite than fun. Yeah. More frostbite than fun. And, and lots of tequila and beer and, you know, shenanigans. All night. Maybe, maybe, maybe we did. He's heard this story. Yeah, no, that, that was a pretty, that was a pretty, you know, young and young and young and crazy house where you've been taking pictures before that. That was a fun and local experience. Yeah. Um, if somebody's listening and just wants to snoop you out, or even if they want to do a career encore, you want to tell them where to look for you? julialstrip. com. Easy. Yeah. I also have a YouTube channel. Okay. Oh, and how was the TEDx, by the way? Was that worth all the effort and stuff like that? Did that kind of help to give you that larger regional, broader following that could support this venture? You know, it was interesting. It's, it's really, it's, it's an interesting, um, experience. It was a great experience. I had a great experience. I had, my TED talk was during the pandemic. Nobody was in the audience. Nobody was in the audience. trying to pretend there is people there. And, and the people who put it on, it was Cherry Creek women, TEDx Cherry Creek women, and they are remarkable, remarkable. Um, so I had a great experience through the whole thing, and then it was up to me to, to get it out and to show people, and, and a lot of people have seen it. And, um, I, I would highly recommend it because it, it, it, It gives you that, um, you know, it, it really helped to dig deep into the, like, what is the message that I want? What's my message that I want to share with the world? Well, what's my what? I've got a dear friend, uh, Karen, uh, that I hired years ago in the coaching capacity. And I've had other friends that were, you know, as local think tank became a thing, sure. Yeah. They were like, you should develop a stage talk. You should be on TEDx. You should be, you know, kind of become a. Guru or whatever, or you should write a book. And I've kind of resisted all those things because I've never really felt like I had that much special to share with the world. Well, I think I would gain a lot actually doing some introspection and investigating what that might be. And I think I'm doing my research by having all these kind of podcast conversations, you know, that's, I'm a lot more comfortable making you the star of this show than I am. I'm thinking about what that is, but maybe I'm just working on my research projects. I think that, so there's a quote from Marianne Williamson that says, um, you know, we're, we're, and I'm not, I'm going to paraphrase, but we're more afraid when it's not our darkness that frightens us, it's our light. And we're more afraid of that. And so I would guess. Kurt, that you have a lot of light to share. I'm not going to guess it. I know that you do and You might just need a little dose of not liquid but courage to say, you know Yeah, I have this big idea And the world needs it. Well, I think that's very sweet. I think it's very true. I think we all have it. You're probably right. And I think you absolutely have it. I hope, uh, I hope all the people in Interspoon full of what you got to share are able to find you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I hope you've had fun. What do you think? On a scale of one to 10? Super fun. 10. I mean, it's not that go go's in my towel, but I'm not, I'm not doing that again. We're not racing around Nuremberg in a Porsche 911 turbo or nothing like that. But it's more fun than you thought. Great fun. I knew it would be fun because you're a great guy. Well, thank you for being here, Julia. I really appreciate you. Thank you. Godspeed.