EXPERIENCE 184 | Finding Great People and Building Strong Teams with Trish Bowen-Bannister and Isaac Bowen, President and General Manager of Snelling Staffing Agency of Northern Colorado, and (Isaac) Principal of Benchmark Search Group

Trish Bowen-Bannister started her career in education, grew quickly in the field, and spent many years as the Director of Education for Weston Distance Learning in Fort Collins - a role very similar to the role my wife currently fills for the same organization!  She later became Campus President of another local education organization, but was keen to leave after a new CEO created a less-than-enjoyable work environment.  Despite having no previous interest in running or owning a business, she found herself looking at the local Snelling Staffing franchise for sale, and with encouragement from her then-boyfriend (now husband) she took the leap and became the owner and President of Snelling Staffing of Northern Colorado in April of 2015.  

Trish’s previous work developing training and education plans helped to build a culture of service and learning in the organization, and many of her earliest employees are still there today.  Isaac Bowen (her son) started soon after the acquisition on a very part-time basis in a Recruiting Assistant role, but was mostly focused on his restaurant career.  However, when the Covid crisis hit the industry, and customer traffic (and personal income) fell off - he was eager to find a new challenge.  He quickly became one of the best recruiters and business developers to ever join the team (a role they had struggled with) and they’ve grown in size and scope since his full-time arrival.  Isaac has also been building an adjacent search business for specialty trades - Benchmark Search Group.  

Lots of good stuff in this one - team dynamics, cultural awareness, hiring trends, industry ethics, and generational opportunities and transition.  This mother and son have a great dynamic, each allowing and encouraging the other to do well what they do best, for the furtherance of their business, and the service of client needs.  It’s a peak behind the curtain of an often-misunderstood industry, so join if you will, and enjoy my conversation with Trish Bowen-Bannister and Isaac Bowen.  

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Bannister started her career in education, grew quickly in the field, and spent many years as the director of education for Weston Distance Learning in Fort Collins, a role very similar to the role my wife currently fills for the same organization. She later became campus president of another local education organization, but was keen to leave after a new CEO created a less than enjoyable work environment. Despite having no previous interest in running or owning a business, she found herself looking at the local Snelling Staffing franchise for sale, And with encouragement from her then boyfriend, now husband, she took the leap and became the owner and president of Snelling Staffing of Northern Colorado in April of 2015. Trish's previous work developing training and education plans helped to build a culture of service and learning in the organization, and many of her earliest employees are still there today. Isaac Bowen, her son, started soon after the acquisition on a part time basis as a recruiting assistant, but was mostly focused on his restaurant career. However, when the COVID crisis hit the industry, and customer traffic and his personal income fell off, he was eager to find a new challenge. He quickly became one of the best recruiters and business developers to ever join the team, a role they had struggled with, and they've grown in size and scope since his full time arrival. Isaac has also been building an adjacent search business for specialty trades, benchmark search group. Lots of good stuff in this one team dynamics, cultural awareness, hiring trends, industry ethics, and generational opportunities and transition. This mother and son have a great dynamic, each allowing and encouraging the other to do well, what they do best for the furtherance of their business and the service of client needs. It's a peek behind the curtain of an often misunderstood industry. So join, if you will, and enjoy my conversation with Trish Bowen Bannister and Isaac Bowen. 1, 2, 3. Welcome back to the Loco Experience podcast. My guests today are Trish Bowen Bannister and Isaac Bowen. And Trish is the president of Snelling of Northern Colorado. Isaac is the general manager. As well as the principle of benchmark staffing solutions. No, benchmark search group. Yep, yep. Benchmark search group. We can edit that out. Does that matter to you? We won't, actually. Yeah, we don't do that. Close enough. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, for sure. Um, let's just, uh, start by setting the, the stage a little bit. Trish, uh, tell me about Snelling Staffing Solutions. What do you do today? What do we do today? Yeah. For who? We, we work for our clients. Um, clients tell us what specific niches that they need filled, certain skill sets, um, and we go out and recruit and find those people. Okay. Um, we do temp to hire and direct hire. Not a lot of the temp stuff that Snelling and Snelling back from 75 years ago is known for. So not like the, like I had two people not show up. I need two people today. You don't do much of that. It's more, it's almost like a screen finding service, but also a screening service, the temp to hire is like, I can have them on a temp basis. Instead of me hiring them, you can hire them. And then if they suck. Correct. It's kind of a try before you buy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we go out and find them. We go, we recruit. We do an onboarding meeting with them to find out culturally what they're looking for, hard skills. And then we go find them. We do a lot of what we call passive recruiting. So it's not just posting an ad and post and pray, as they say. You're kind of a, out there, hey, you person working for this software company, Do you want to work for this other better software company? Sometimes. I've been recruited before. I get it. Lots of special techniques probably. Um, so that's your main service. It's our main bread and butter. And, uh, what's your team? Who's your team? Right now it's myself and Isaac, the general manager, and we have, uh, Uh, Michelle Jabs has been with us for eight years. She's an executive recruiter. I've met Michelle before. I think you've also met Melanie Ecker. She's been with us nine years as of yesterday. Oh, wow. Congratulations, Melanie. She's also a great recruiter. Great with client relations. Um, then we have Katrina Sellers, who has been with us four years as of Saturday. There's something about hiring in August for us. I guess so. This is a busy season coming up. Not, I don't, I mean, not any busier than normal. It just, for some reason, we get all these great people during August. Yeah, your August anniversary budget like blows up for the year. So we have Katrina. She's our recruiting administrator. She does a lot of our sourcing. And then Bennett Richardson has been with us for three years and two weeks. He is a recruiter, little rock star. Everybody knows Bennett once they've met him. Yep. Yep. And we have a new hire coming on tomorrow. And that's kind of the business, right? You got kind of these people out there doing the recruiting thing. Yeah, pretty much. And then they get a cut, and you get a cut, and Snelling gets a cut. I assume it's a Snelling does get a cut. Tell me about, uh They're probably going to hear that, too. Sorry, Snelling, yeah. That's okay. That's why we have the name. Franchisors know that they've been hired. are resented by their franchises, resented and loved. Exactly. Generally. We actually do, we have a great relationship with them as well, but it is a little tough to, you know, do that ACH every month. Every time. Yeah, it's the way it is, though. And Isaac, tell me about Benchmark, um. Sort of search group. How is that different than Snelling? So benchmark search group is a construction exclusive direct hire search firm. So as opposed to Snelling being kind of industry agnostic, you know, we do have our areas of specialization. Benchmark serves exclusively the construction industry. So you don't do the temp hire. That's correct. We don't payroll anybody except for internal staff. I see. Okay. And is that just a, A simpler model is something to build outside of the Snelling umbrella that they didn't really do. Like, do they get mad at you for doing this? Is that allowed? Um, I'm not on the franchise agreement for Snelling. Oh, I see. Okay. So, yeah, I don't have any ownership or equity in Snelling. So you don't have any obligation there. Correct. So having 100 percent ownership over Benchmark, there's not a conflict. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Um, Trish, back to you. Uh, how'd you get into this? Like, uh, what was the, we'll go back into your life journey a little bit more later, but like, what, Got you interested in the staffing industry. It's a good and interesting question. Um, I was in education for many years and my last position in education, um, was going swimmingly and then they hired somebody, a new COO that made it challenging. Yes, yes, yes. So we don't use that kind of language, right? It's okay. So long story short, um, my fiance, who's at the time is now my husband, uh, We both agreed that in order for me to have my sanity and live in an additional 10 years that I was going to leave that company, um, and figure out what I wanted to do. So I did some consulting. I've done some curriculum, you know, consulting and things like that while I continue to look for what I wanted to do. And I'd been like a campus president and curriculum development and that kind of thing. So the offers that I had were like in Denver and Boulder. I was not interested in this. Right. Employers hardly. If they needed somebody, they had them already. And I didn't want to drive again because I was already going to Greeley and I had high school kids. And so one day when I'm, you know, doing my little consulting work, I just looked at businesses for sale. I have no idea why. There was never, ever an inkling that I ever wanted to own a business because it was terrifying. But I saw a staffing firm for sale, and I kind of figured out it was Snelling, and I started thinking about it. My husband, Deontay at the time, came home, and I told him, and he didn't look at me like I was crazy. We, we weren't even engaged yet. Like, this is just a very good boyfriend, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. He, he. As opposed to what? Well, that's a good question. She had some bad boyfriends between there too. I kissed a lot of frogs, you can admit it. I got, I got a good one. I'll let you continue. Oh, you were, you were like a teenager while your mom was hunting, yeah. Interesting. Oh, it worked very much, very much to my benefit. She was preoccupied with it. Right, you could do whatever you want. Oh boy. Yeah, there's some stories, but I keep hearing them even 10, 15 years later, a little bit at a time. Maybe, maybe we'll share some way. Maybe. Probably. Maybe. Um, so, so you were like, you're like, maybe this isn't a dumb idea. You know, cause I knew P and L's and new operations. I knew how to hire. I knew nothing about the staffing industry. Not at all. Not a dang thing. Um, so anyway, due diligence started. I traveled to talk to all those, you know, people that I used, that I know that are in a Snelling franchise or looked them up, became to know them, came to know them. And did the due diligence by going to corporate. Long story short, we got two loans. We each dumped some money over 401k into it and we this boyfriend? Yeah, the boyfriend. Okay. We got engaged pretty soon after that. Right. Um, thank goodness because he was crazy to do that. But yeah, so he is part owner. He's just a silent owner. Gotcha. Gotcha. Which is perfect. Yeah, perfect. He's there for when I need him. Um, yeah, so that's, that's how we landed it. Fifteen is when we bought it. Okay. April. So we started the due diligence in fall of 2014. Okay. So it took a while to get through it and get it done. Yep. I started with the guy that had it, um, had had it for 20 years. Great guy. We had a wonderful client base. It was quite small. He'd been looking to retire for a while. So we really just took it from very small to where it is now. You saw a lot of upside kind of. Oh yeah. Yeah. I had, we did a lot of trial and error, had no idea what we were doing. Didn't have a lot of corporate support at the time. Um, I did a lot of buddy, buddy with some franchisees around the country that taught me a lot. Oh, right. Yeah. So that's, they were kind of my mentors and how we got going. So yeah. Oh, I dig it. Yeah. And was, was your boyfriend now fiance involved at all? No, he's always been on the financial side. Yep. Yep. He's a construction super. So okay. He he's a very good person to go to he yeah He's got a lot of that back in knowledge for 30 years. So yeah fair enough and Isaac You're how old are you or how old were you at this time in 2015? I'm 28 now That would have been nine years ago. So it would have been 19 years old. So yeah, you're you're kind of just getting out of high school and stuff. And what did you like? Uh What was that to you? Was that meaningful at all? That Iran was going to quit this? Because I really don't think of educators as being likely business owners very often, if I'm honest. But you're right. You had the right skill set. You had hiring, administration, operations. It sucked at sales, though. Well, yeah. That's why you hired her for that. Yeah. No, to answer your question, in all honesty, you know, I was 19. I was pretty self absorbed at the time. You were barely noticed. No, she seemed confident and happy, and that's all I really cared about. What was your place in life? Were you like in college? Did you go away for college? I went to CSU here in town. All right. So, originally from Fort Collins, went to Rocky Mountain High School, um, and then I was going into CSU in 2015. I think I would have been a freshman. So, yeah. No, you graduated in 14. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I would have been a sophomore. Sophomore already? So Living or not living at home, I assume. You had your own No, we didn't see him a lot back then. thing, like, whatever going on. Just when I needed a home cooked meal or something. Yeah, yeah. And when did you, um, join the company? So I'd always been in and around it since she purchased it. You know, it was usually a summer job, part time here and there, uh, you know, attending it, doing what, like mostly, mostly business development, like local drop offs to businesses. I'd attend events on their behalf. Sometimes I do some, uh, go represent. Exactly. Yeah, I do some light recruiting work, you know, uh, pre screen scheduling interviews, following up on administrative stuff, stuff like that. Okay. And then it was, uh, 2020, it was 2020. Yeah, that's, that's a good segue, actually. So I was bartending all through college. Okay. Um, and, and if you've ever worked in the restaurant industry, if you don't have any other outside perspective. You think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's like, you know, I worked in a restaurant. Yeah. You, you, you don't, you don't go to work till four. You work maybe five or six hours. You leave with a few hundred dollars in cash. You get to hang out at the bar and drink with your friends that work there too. Afterwards. Exactly. You eat for free. You drink for borderline free. If not free, you can sleep as late as you want. And you repeat, talk about the instant gratification of the cash. Yeah. Until you're 45 and you have no other skills. Um, that's really compelling. Well, and in that regard, COVID was a blessing, because I was still bartending. You got chased out of the industry instead of having to let your body tell you it was time to leave. Exactly. Exactly. So, uh, yeah. So where were you bartending? Outback Steakhouse. Okay. I like it. It was great. It was a great gig. Yeah, probably. It's, uh, Fast Turns. Fast Turns is a full service bar, right? So it's not like you're just slinging drinks and getting a dollar a drink as a tip. You know, when people are spending 100, 150 bucks at a bar. Sitting at the bar, rather, you know, getting full meals and checks were good. And, oh, right. That helps a lot too. Right. Cause you're not just slinging drinks, have a 40 tab. You got 150 tab you're getting 20 percent off. Exactly. Oh, cool. Yep. Yep. And of course there was lots of good food and stuff that came with that as well. It's probably 50 or 60 additional pounds. But, but we got rid of those and, uh, but yeah, it's, uh, so in, in May of 2020, uh, after sitting on, um, I guess all the COVID unemployment and exciting stuff that came with that. Burned some of that up for a little while. Yeah. Yeah. I realized that that was incredibly unfulfilling and I needed to do something and you'd always, you'd always had a interest in me joining the business. I was encouraged. Yeah. But it wasn't, it couldn't be my, I wasn't going to push. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh. So yeah, come, come May 2020, you know, I realized that I might kind of have a, have an eye and ear for the whole people thing, right, by function of bartending and just kind of who it was a person and business development was always an area that, uh, I think Snelly had effectively kind of struggled to hire for, you'd had a few business development folks that, you know, Came and went, uh, some, some, some with more success than others. Uh, and so a lot of spitting in the wind, mostly with not success, mostly. Yeah. And so, uh, that wasn't something that scared me or something that actually got me pretty excited. So I came on in 2020 as a, the business development manager. So I was exclusively client facing there for awhile. And that means you're going out to employers that might want to do this kind of attempt to hire kind of a But it was mostly phone at that point because nobody was letting you in their facility. Right, right. That's a good point. And, and, cause I, I had effectively no training, right? So Snell Incorporate, Snell Incorporate, and that's, that's not a knock on you by any means, but Yeah. You know, Snell Incorporate actually went through like two different acquisitions. One of which was, or two acquisitions recently, one of which was I think during that period. Right after. Right after. The good one that we're in now. It's a long story short, there wasn't a whole lot of resources, but in a sense, thinking about it in retrospect, I think that weird COVID lull was a little bit of a blessing for me in my learning curve because yeah, it was mostly phone oriented. You couldn't do much in person. But everybody had a lot of patience. I don't know if you remember that. Everybody had time on their hands. And I was, I just spent 20 minutes on the phone with a recruiter. I was so bored. Yeah, no, seriously, Kurt, everybody picked up the phone. Yes, I'll take your survey. Everybody picked up the phone. For a dollar? Yeah, I'll take it for a dollar. I'll do it for free. I just want to talk to somebody. It was great because I got the reps in at a rate much faster than somebody could entering the industry now, because now, I mean, our connection rate on phone calls is, I mean, under 20%. Yeah. It's probably much less than that. I actually haven't looked recently, but then it was damn near a hundred. So, so everybody I call, I got to talk to. Yeah. You're like, you let a few deals that you spend an hour on or two hours on and you're like, Oh, I just got paid 1, 200 for an hour or something. I don't know what your rates of commission are or whatever, but you get a chunk when you, when you plant, when you land somebody that goes to a permanent hire, I imagine. Sure, sure. Yeah, absolutely. So. Yeah, no, the, the learning curve was much shorter than I think it would have been otherwise. And, uh, it was going pretty well, um, was initially focusing on kind of building that temp to hire business just cause it's all we knew at the time. Uh, direct hire, in my opinion, is a lot more fun. It's a lot more lucrative and it's actually a lot easier to sell cause you're having higher level conversations with higher level people. Yeah. Um, career oriented. That's been developed. Portion. You've kind of dropped the temp temp as you've expanded the direct hire. Right. Um, which is kind of more of the classic executive recruiting, not executives per se. It's more some executives, but a lot more rank and file and accountants or whatever, construction workers, things like that. It's funny you say that Kurt, because that's everybody's first move when they, uh, They enter the, what we call kind of the search side of the world. As they say, they now have an executive search division, which we did. Right. We've now pivoted away from that term. Yeah. While, while we do recruit a handful of executives, the majority is mid level three in the C suite and 150 at the mid level management. It just sounds fancy. Right. Right. That was, that was the trap we fell into at first. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. So, so the direct hire branch started to grow. I've always had a passion for construction. I like the people there more than anything. I've never had to attend a meeting in a suit and tie and I intend to keep it very real, tangible. Yes, exactly. We build things here. Exactly. Just true salt of the earth people. Just incredible. So you find a niche in construction that kind of helped blow up the business a little bit, maybe not blow it up, but at least give it a nice growth trajectory. Which. I mean, you've grown it already a little bit, you said, Trish, from when you acquired it, but just the, it was a slow process, slower than you wanted it to be, and your business development efforts previously were not effective. Efforts were not lacking, it sounds like, it was just the results. Efforts were there, yeah. It definitely takes time. It's not something that happens right away. You can even speak to this. Yeah, what is it? to somebody for you, how do you win in that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, is it just, really just? Uh, it's a combination of consistency and timing and relationships and relationships. Of course, um, relationships determine the quality of the engagement we found. It's, it's a function of timing that kind of determines the necessity, um, because there's been times where I've made one phone call and I happen to connect with the right person who is doing the work of three people at that time because he has not been able to find them on his own and the agreement signed the next day and we're in business. Right. Um, but. On the other end of that, we onboarded a client last week that I'd spoken to every month since March of 2023. And we hadn't had the opportunity to do business together until last week. And so that was special. Uh, like, can I get a hint, like, what's the, like, was it just a phone call mostly by you leaving him a voicemail or her, uh, sending an email, doing some other touch? Yeah, no, you, you gotta, you gotta hit multiple mediums. Run into them here or there at a networking thing. Hey, I'll follow up with you next month again. Well, and, and our, our industry is like really heavily commoditized, especially right now. Right. Because Post COVID, you know, there was a huge hiring boom. Money was damn near free. It was, I mean, 2022 was a banner year for just about everybody in the industry. And so I can't remember where I was going with that. Well, just where the margins are, the relationships and actually, yeah, how to be successful in your world. Right. So in 2022, I mean, I don't know the statistics, perhaps Trish does by function of being involved with like a American Staffing Association, but there's a, there's more, more staffing agencies and search firms right now than there ever has been. Really? Absolutely. And it was because people saw. How high demand it was in 2022, how lucrative it was. Um, and so everybody and their brother through a lot of 23, but the worm was kind of turned here in 24, um, it's definitely been a slower year for the industry as a whole. Isn't that such a, how can it go so fast? From I can't find anybody to it's a lot easier than it used to be. It just doesn't make sense to me How it changes so people need work now because unemployment's a little harder to come by there's no more free money, right? Right, so so the workforce is growing a little bit Yeah, oh that makes sense yeah, okay, so when it's Yeah, that's quite a dynamic, huh? Can we talk about that a little bit, Trish? Like, just the industry dynamics? Like, um, what does it determine your ebb and flow? In addition to having somebody doing business development that's getting results, right? Because that's market share. But what I think I'm hearing is that, um, kind of the receptivity of a workforce to being recruited might have a lot to do with it. Definitely. I would say this year we've had more, of our professional people get an offer and actually end up staying where they are. And I think some of that could be related to it being election year, a little fear, nobody knows what's going on. Um, we do, we've seen more of that than we have ever. Then you get nothing, right? Yeah. And then you're just the client. You know, I got to start over. It's like being a realtor. You work, you work your butt off until somebody makes an offer. Look at this piece of property right here. He's so cute. And he's got a great personality. Yeah. He's got everything you want. And then they sometimes back off. Yeah. Yeah. But that's okay. You'd rather them do that and be honest with themselves than, you know, waste anyone's time. Fair. Fair. So, um. Oh, it was like the ebbs and flows of the industry. No. I wasn't in it in 08, but everybody knows it was a big recession. I've got a lot of franchisee buddies that were, and it was a rough couple years. I mean, rough. Bloodbaths. Nobody was hiring. Right, right. We have not felt that by any stretch. But what I'll say is most of our clients now are wanting niched skill sets. Okay. Whereas in a, in a 22 year, it I need a warm body. Right. Yep. A little bit more of that. Oh, so you have to work a little harder to make sure you're niching in 2022. Yeah, yeah. To get the, not even quite the same results. Because our, our jobs are more difficult, they're more niched. Yeah. I realize now, Isaac, I kind of cut you off. Like, you've talked about relationships was one big thing that attributed to your success over time. Consistency, how do you stay consistent? Like, do you just have a, a plan? CRM system that sends you a dinger every month that says, did you call Joe yet? Pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Our, our, uh, our applicant tracking system has kind of a. Half baked CRM that they integrated, uh, that I can use to at least kind of track leads and, and communication and things like that. Um, other than that, it's just a good old to do list. What was the third thing? Relationship consistency and Timing. Timing. Timing. Timing. Timing's the secret sauce. And that's where the consistency helps because they, they haven't thought about you once. Exactly. They've had three other recruitment or staffing agencies attempt to hire firms, contact them, but if you're the one that gets there the closest to the need Then they're going to hire you probably. Exactly. I heard a great analogy to that. Actually. It's a, like a mechanic shop, right? You, uh, if, if nothing's wrong with your car and you don't need any regular maintenance and a mechanic shop called you every week, you, you, you could, you could love them dearly, right? You could think they're the best mechanic shop in the world, but if you don't have a need, it's irrelevant. But if you're here from that mechanic shop for a while and all of a sudden it's time for an oil change. And you get a coupon in the mail where you might perhaps go where the coupon is. Even if you love your mechanic. Exactly. Because they're just not top of mind and not relevant when you don't have a need. So it's really about just staying, staying relevant more than anything. So that when the need arises, you're the one they think of. So instead of. Aside from that timing, why would they think of Snelling here? You know, you said you're commoditized, but your favorite customers are the customers that think of you first. Why do they, why do they do that? I think it's really a function of who we are as people, because at the end of the day, we're, we're a service business right through and through, um, we're, we're people working with people. To find people and what's the most unpredictable, you know, function of what we got going on earth, it's people. Um, so with that commoditization of our industry and the low barrier to entry, more than anything, I mean, all you have to do is really give yourself a name, a logo and pick up a phone and like your recruiter. Yeah, no, seriously. I mean, even realtors have to take a real estate test. Right. So you're advocating for increased regulation of the search industry? Um, you know, I would be in support of it, yeah. Really? I thought you were kind of libertine. That doesn't sound very libertarian. Well, a little bit of regulation wouldn't hurt. Because, because to circle back and answer your question. Because there's a bunch of no goodniks out there. Exactly. Oh, and so to get back to the question, they think of you because you're actually pro style? Well, I think we do a very good job, but what we really hang our hat on is just the, the The morals and ethics with which we conduct business in ourselves. Okay. Um, I mean, there's been a lot of times where we've, we've taken a loss in a situation where We did so voluntarily because it was the right thing to do not because we messed up or did anything wrong All right, um, you know, we're very communicative And understand that ultimately people are at the at the basis of what we do, right? Not only does our placement have a direct impact on the business and all the subsequent little Fingers and arms that that person's going to touch within the business, but also that candidate has a family Yeah, yeah, right. Um, and I think a lot of people in this industry Forget that. Um, and they think of it truly as, as a product. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, I mean, if you're not paying for the product, then you are the product and that's, I've been placed once, uh, in my banking career and it was, what was that like? Well, how was your experience? You know, she did a really good job and it was a person that, you know, continued to call on me for years afterwards and stuff, of course. But, um, let me stop you there. Continued to call on you. What for? Was she trying to move you a second time? Sure. Yeah. See that's a, that's, that's chicken. We just don't do that. Yeah, just check it in. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to, trying to pull you back outta the client you placed later that, that's no good. Actually, after, it was after I moved to Fort Collins, so I was obviously not working for her placement anymore, but, oh, okay. Okay. Understood. That makes sense. So it wasn't, it wasn't unethical. Okay. Uh, in that instance, um, because people do that all the time and that's, yeah. Well it's like churning your investment account, right? Exactly. Yeah. Like you need this fancy new stock. Oh, you know what, you need this fancy new stock. Oh, guess what I got for you, a fancy new stock. That's right. Yeah. We don't play that game. No. And we don't, we don't, any of our clients, we never pull anybody from. Talk to me. We don't even talk to them. Let's talk about the ethics of it and maybe I'll bounce it back to you, Trish, if you don't mind. What, uh, like what, one of the things that's a differentiator, I think with me and Loco Think Tank is I like name the conflicts of interest and the ethical challenges sometimes that are in business and, you know, just even in. Adding new members and blah blah blah. What are the, what are the, aside from churning somebody basically, Uh, which Basically screwing your client, right, because your client is the one that paid you and now you're going to get paid by somebody else that competes with them to get their employee again. Like, are there other, like, ethical things that are either, if not commonplace at least, something that you have to be intentional to avoid? Well, we never thought of doing this, but I've heard that some of, some of the larger firms will post fake job ads to get a big candidate pool. Interesting. It appalls me. It's disgusting. No, and every single person that works for our firm is extremely, has morals, ethics, and we do it right. Like you said, we, we have eaten some money here and there. Yeah, yeah. For the right reason, not because we did anything wrong. Right, right. Um, and you, that's, you gotta be passionate, you have to be ethical, and you have to be honest. So that's what you're going for. Or you don't get to work for us. Well, you've got long term employees. Considering you've only been around since 2015, you've got like nine, eight, ten employees. Six, four, three kind of thing on, and I'm imagining you've grown in four and a half here. So why do your people stay? It'd be a better question to ask them. Well, I know. I think, um, Why would they say? Why don't you take that one, Trish? You kind of, you kind of built the basis of that culture. We care. We care. I care about their families. I care about, um, them having, you know, time to be with their kids. We have a couple with smaller children. I grew up partially as a single mom, and I know what that's like, so I always make sure family comes first. I think they all appreciate that a lot. I think they do appreciate the honesty and ethical way that we do business, definitely, because they're all good people. Um, and we do provide, I don't know if flexibility is the right word, but you know, if your mom is sick, by 85, you go. We got this handled for you today. I think those are some of the reasons. I would agree with that. And I think we, uh, we create an environment where people get to capitalize on what they do best in a way that's effective for the business. Um, and what I mean by that is everybody's different, right? Uh, obviously. Yeah, yeah. But. Some people might be most productive in the office with the team soaking that up. Other people might need to be there some. And just rock the phones from home is what they should really be doing sometimes. Or what, I don't know if you have that flexibility, but look, you have to have a different character for Durham people. Exactly. Yeah. We, we have a hybrid working model for sure. Um, but additionally, you know, we, we focus on outcomes and expectations, but not the inputs required to get there. And that's really inverse of a lot of the industry. At most of the staffing industry, it's, you make 25 calls a day. Right. You, you send out five candidates, you schedule three external. If you can meet all your goals and expectations on 15 hours a week. And that gives you extra time with your kids. And then, okay, as long as you're killing it, maybe that's not 15, but no, it's definitely not 50, but there's some flexibility afforded by Long as you're hitting your numbers kind of thing. Yeah, in a sense from a time capacity, yes, but moreover from a process capacity. You know, there are some non negotiable fundamentals in what we do that ties back to both candidate and client experience that are non negotiable. Um, but ultimately, you know, we don't have a script for every call. We don't have an SOP for every situation. Um, and that's kind of by design. Right. We, we have, we hire really good people that we trust. We give them the roadmap to do what needs to be done and then we kind of let them get there themselves. Fair enough. Um, and I, I think that level of autonomy, not like micromanager style or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I think that level of autonomy has been appreciated and probably contributes to most everybody's a little bit self taught and it's kind of a win win, right? Like they, especially, I mean, these are all employees, right? They're W2 employees, but they could go apply their craft with somebody else. Um, and, but they're, they're the revenue engines ultimately of your, of your machine. And so, but they can't make any money unless they can have the critical scale, critical mass to do stuff. So it's kind of a continuing coalition of the willing. And the will, their willingness to continue that is a lot to do with money. How good of people you are at being their employer of choice, if you will. And to that end, I think we're very supportive, and in an environment that is inherently A lot of them cycle through a lot of people. Oh yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's uh, it's a pretty, I'm trying to think of the right word, it's not disappointing. You lose a lot more than you win. Um, and, and no matter how effective you are at your job, you can do everything right. You can do everything 110 percent correct. But at the end of the day, we have a, again, quote unquote product, not that And only a small percentage of people, a service. They have, they have free will and determination, right? We, we joke sometimes about how Incredible. The business we could build if we took our team and ship something off of a shelf. Yes. No unpredictability there. Yeah. And I understand that comes with supply chain and distribution logistics. There's all kinds of other stuff that you can't make people do stuff. Exactly. We cannot control the free will of those that we play. Yeah. Well, it runs the same challenge with. My local think tank membership, you know, I can, you came to our social last week, you know, nice music and great food and we had a nice attendance, you know, 35 or whatever it was like 20 of my members and 15 not members. And that means like 80 of my members didn't come, you know, nice little party is at the summer party, you know, come, but you can't make anybody do anything and everybody's busy. Um, so anyway, I digress. Oh, I wanted to, uh, Isaac, you were in, Trisha, you're, you're in the local chapter now. Are you back from leave? You were on leave? Yeah, yeah, just for a couple months. Okay, you're back. Anyway, um, and Isaac, you were in a, a Catalyst chapter, um, and this is specifically about Alma. Alma's across the room over here. You're experienced as a person that hires people. And evaluates things and stuff. And you had a lot of, uh, conversation with Alma in a chapter meeting and stuff. What would you say of her from a employment staffing agency? Like, what's your perception of her as a candidate, as a person? No, just, uh, yeah, as a candidate, you can find her a job if you needed to. I think my, my perception is going to be very much hinged on what I know about you. And in that sense, I think she's incredibly complimentary. Um, you know, I, I see very much as like the, I'm sure you're familiar with the EOS model doing what you do, the visionary, right? For sure. Yeah. She's, she's kind of built for that kind of a space. Yeah. Absolutely. I know. I think she compliments your skill set very well and probably keeps you in line on the, on the back end. No, but, um, I w I was very impressed with how impressionable she was, especially when we were in that chapter together. Um, we'd certainly seen. You know, I mean, I was in it for two, three years. We saw quite a few different members coming. Sure. Sure. Just cause it was kind of a newer chapter. She receives and does. Exactly. Like when she's convinced that something's the right way, she'll just learn how to do it and do it. That's exactly what I was going to say, because, uh, there was a lot of people who would issue process the same issue over and over and over again. Yeah. Yeah. I look at Trish jokingly. But, and not do anything about it. Well, and she's at least seen those members if she's ever been one. I've met one of those people before. No, but Alma, we, we, she, she'd come to us with a challenge. We'd process it and the next month she'd come back having implemented the suggestions and that's really impressive and not something you see that often. Thank you. Yeah. Um, And Alma, I know you're going to like edit this and hear that. I was hoping for some juicy, what would be the biggest negative thing you would say? Terrible question. Um, I don't, I don't know if I can do that. I don't know if I, if I know her well enough to have seen any of the negatives. People naturally put on their, their, their face and their put their best foot forward and my camera died again. Well, I guess we're going to have to take our clip from what we've done so far. We got technical glitches galore this episode. Um, what else, like, what do you want people to know about, like, as far as being a candidate? Like there's people out here listening right now thinking, you know, I kind of don't like my job, but it seems really scary to try to go out and look for a job and maybe, you know, kind of a Staffing agencies thing might be a better way to direct hire kind of a conversation to find me the right fit. Like, can you actually do that? Like do people outreach to you regularly as well? Say, I want to be in your pool. That's a good question. It happens often. Okay. Um, and as we have evolved and we have such a network of hiring managers and candidates that we know and have known for years, we are able sometimes to make that happen. Okay. The challenge is that, um, Our primary work is for the clients that have come to us and said, I need X, Y, and Z skillset with this culture. And it's, we want to help everybody, especially when they're miserable and not happy. And you know, sometimes it works, but it doesn't happen right away. You especially don't want to help the employees of your primary clients. And we won't tell them how often they call and say, Hey, I don't like it here anymore. Well, tough shit. We're not doing that. You can give your notice when you're ready and you can go find your own job because we're not doing that. We don't do that. They pay our bills and we're going to do it. It doesn't happen often, but it does sometimes. No, and we don't just disregard them. We provide them other resources and suggestions and we'll still look at their resume if they'd like and give them tips. But we're not going to play accomplice. No, no, no. What are some of the characteristics of the people that do that? Stick the best. And I know there's cultural differences between different companies and stuff like that, but what do you see as far as, you know, when companies are excited about this person, you know, three years, five years in, they're like, dude, Isaac, thanks for finding me. Kristen, she's been a killer. We do hear that. You know, what's funny is it has nothing to do with technical ability. Okay. It's 100 percent innate, like human traits. It's, it's adaptability, desire to learn ability to pivot. Like you asked me about Alma. That's one of her biggest. Strengths from my, my perception is the ability to Yeah, she doesn't get rattled too easy. No, no, and you, sometimes people get really, uh, hung up on a, on a perspective or a point of view or decision they made and they're not willing to I'm deviate from that perspective, even if new information is presented itself. Maybe I'm getting into the politics section, but, uh, the people that are willing to change stance and learn and adapt and be a part of this new organization, even if it's different than their old one. Yeah. Those are the people that I think do the best in any, any career path. That's probably like more important than ever is just adaptability. It really is. Things are changing every second, whether it's technology or politics or whatever the case may be. Right. And it's so wild because like through the 90s and 2000s, especially like specialization was one of the things that companies tried to encourage a lot and employees did a lot of so that they could get that specialization kind of money. But then those specializations die and change and stuff. And now adaptability seems to be. More important than the willingness to spend time enough to become a specialist. I don't know. I would agree with that. I mean, I, I'm the self proclaimed mile wide inch deep. It served me pretty well. Oh, you say that? I say that. Maybe I got it from you. You probably did. But, um, I don't know, what else would you want people to know about the business before we go into the closing segments? What's next for you? Like, Trish, you're no spring chicken. Are you, uh, you're here for another 10 years? Or is Isaac going to take this thing over? Is he going to, like, find some girl from Puerto Rico and move there? No, he's got a fiancee that I adore. Oh, good. We'll talk more about her later. Yeah. Did I meet her? I don't think so. I don't know. I don't believe you. Okay. Good. That would be sad to have forgotten her. No, I, I, I obviously at some point want to exit. Um, it is, he will get first dibs. It's, it's discussed. Yeah. Um, he's also doing a really good job with benchmark, so we just don't really know yet where all that's going. Hmm. But he gets first dibs when the time comes. Um. Oh, that's interesting. Right? Like, uh. Could just do the independent thing, not have the franchise model part of it anymore. Yeah. What do you want to do? And a lot less people headaches. And, and, and staffing by function of all of our field employees being W 2 to Snelling comes with a lot more Workers comp, unemployment Logistical All the Right, right. Call of la It's kind of like, do I want to be a therapist and have all the regulatory requirements of that? Or maybe I should be a life coach or an executive coach instead and do the same kind of work, use my existing skill set and certifications and not. Yeah. Essentially. Interesting. So I'm a few years out. Yeah, yeah. And we definitely talk about it a lot. Yeah. Sorry to put you on the spot. It's really more his decision when we get there. Yeah. Is it a saleable asset? I presume though, right? Absolutely. Like it's a franchise, but you're the owner of the franchise. It will sell. If he doesn't want another franchise, he would buy it in a heartbeat. Yeah, yeah. It's a, Yeah. Um, yeah, it's probably very saleable too, because you're going to have a retirement. We threw a bunch of money in there, right? That's some hopefully exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Fair enough. And I have to decide too. I mean, the, the staffing model, it's much more valuable from a, from an asset standpoint, because forecastable recurring revenue, you have contracts, whereas direct hire, I mean, if, if that's the direction that somebody wants to go, it's much more of a, Quote unquote lifestyle business and famine a little bit a little bit of that, but it's also, you know, effectively right now It's it's kind of hinged on me. You're a person now, right? You can build a director search firm that can be sold Yeah, but they're not near as valuable as right right companies with contract that makes sense because you got all these corporate employee You know relationships that are regular regular regular regular They work with me because it's me, right? Yeah, quite an interesting conversation you guys will have. Um, let's take a quick break. Sure. And then we will come back for the, uh, closing segments. Okay. Don't be scared. oh, we never went in the time machine. Let's go to the, let's go to the time machine. We'll do it. Time machine's exciting. Trish, uh, first grade, where are you? Huntsville, Alabama. Oh, really? I thought you had a little southern swagger. Yep, I still go home quite a bit, and when I do and I have a couple glasses of wine, you can definitely hear the southern accent come out, I am told. Do you need a refill on your wine, by the way? I'll have a little bit more. Okay. So yeah, Huntsville, Alabama, 19, what was that, 75, I guess? Um, unfortunately, in first grade my mom died, um, unexpectedly young. Oh wow. Tell me about that. Uh, she had a cerebral hemorrhage. Wow. It was completely unexpected. Wow. Um, right before her 20, the day before her 27th birthday. Oh my goodness. So, definitely some challenges growing up. How old were you? I was 7. And you have siblings too? I have a little sister who was 3. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, it definitely, I don't know, I'd like to say that it turned me into a pretty fabulous mom, I know I have my faults, but it was very important to me to be a good mom, because I didn't really have that great mom figure, my dad did remarry, we were not close, um, but yeah, I think it definitely made me a lot of who I am today. I don't doubt it at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and who did you become, like, say, by middle school? High school. Middle school. I was a little bit of a goody two shoes. I'm not surprised. Middle school. I made straight A's. I was the one that got caught, like, talking too much and having to write fifty sentences when I'm not talking in class. Bart Simpson, but not quite that bad. Yeah. Uh, high school, I started out a goody two shoes, and then I kind of experimented a little bit with pot, and had a few friends that did the same. I'm still very good friends with them, Holly and Nancy. Is this like back in 70s? I graduated from high school in 86. Okay, not 70s. I'm not quite that old, Kurt. Yeah. Well, and were you in Alabama still? I was still in Alabama. So that was probably pretty, like, I was in North Dakota in the 80s. Um, we're pretty similarly aged, I think. And, uh, it was pretty, like, people would quickly judge you if they found out you've been smoking pot. Oh, yes. It was a fine line where I went to high school. Like you, you know, there's the goody two shoes and there's the total potheads. And I was sorta in the middle. Maybe a foot in each foot in each, but in a way, nobody knew you had a foot in the, in the bank with everybody. I'm still good friend, not good friends. I'm Facebook friends. And, uh, you know, reunion friends with people on both sides who all grew up. Okay. For the most part. And then, uh, college, something. Yeah. College, I went to, this was still in North, I went to University of North Alabama where I met his father, Zach. Actually didn't meet him there. We went to rival high schools in Huntsville. Our parents lived four miles from each other. So it was interesting. Yeah. So we knew each other in high school, just not well. We started dating our sophomore year in college and gosh, we were together till 08, 99, let's see, 89 to 08. Okay. Um, still very good friends with him. He's wonderful, wonderful man. Yep. Great guy. And what is, when did Isaac come along and is there others? Isaac came along. We had been married four years. We were both in grad school. Had no money. He was a little bit of a surprise. Um, which he's heard many times. It was the best surprise I've ever had, but, uh, yeah, so, yeah, I, when he was little, I would, I was teaching adjunct and on, I started the online thing and, uh, of course had a great job. We moved out here from Colorado, from Alabama to Colorado. What year were you born? Ninety six. He was born in ninety six. Okay. Then Emma, our little girl, came along, um, in two thousand. Okay. And you got kind of into an adjunct kind of role in education and then just kind of. Expanded that from there. I guess you had a graduate degree as well in education, education. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I started out like in sales. And then when my husband Zach at the time went back to school at Auburn, he, he got his PhD there. Everybody we knew was in grad school. It's like, I'm just going to hop on this wagon too. Okay. So I hopped on the, on the graduate school wagon, wagon, got my, um, degree in English education and, or my graduate degree in English education. And I taught for a little bit. Um. Junior high and high school. And then Isaac came along, we moved to Colorado, and that's where I ventured out into teaching college. Yeah, yeah. And very fortunate that I did. Um, but I did teach English. So after a few years of it, you realize you're probably making three bucks an hour by the time you grade all those papers. Right. So there's some burnout there, which is how I ended up at Weston. Yeah, yeah. Where your wife currently works. And what was your, was your role kind of the, Dean of faculty kind of thing by the end of it? I started, yeah, by the end of it I was the dean of education. Dean of education. Okay, so more curricular development than maybe Jill does, she's more oversees the people that do the curriculum development. Kind of, I think. I started out as a curriculum developer, and then as time, when I was there for 10 12 years and then moved up to Director of Education. So, I was over the instructors and the curriculum design people. Okay, yeah. So that's where the whole college thing started. So for the listeners that don't know what I'm talking about. My wife basically has a job that's very similar to what Trish used to do. Yep. 15 years ago or 10 years ago. Um, and so, uh, they have some commonality. Yes, we do. And we kind of got into that space of what that transition looked like. How was it working for Weston? I will say this. Um, and I've told Anne Rohr was the president of the, at the time. She was my boss. She was one of the absolute best. Supervisor, mentor, bosses I've ever had. Um, we had our moments where we didn't agree, didn't always agree on things. But she really gave me the confidence to be a good leader. And I have told her that. We still keep in touch. Yeah. And she's retired since. Another formative person in your development. Absolutely. Absolutely. I loved Weston. Loved it a lot. They gave me a lot of flexibility where my kids were little. Um, All the responsibility you could handle whenever you would need a little more. Yep, yep. It was great. It was great. I loved that gig. I made very good lifetime friends and just really did it. It was just time for me to move on to something that had a little bit more growth potential to it. Yeah, I like it. And Isaac, uh, what was it? 1996? No, not yet. Yep. That's your birth year? Yep. Okay, so I'm 22 years older than you. I just turned 50. Well, congrats. Yeah. What's that? So that means I'm six years older than you. Is that right? Because I was 28 when it happened. All right. Fair enough. Um, what was, uh, what was your early, early life like? Like first, like when you five, six, seven years old, where were you at, what were you doing? You were here. Yep. Yep. I think it was pretty unique, actually. So. We were living up risk Canyon. Oh, really? Yep. Oh, interesting. That's, that's why I was so familiar with this where they grow all the good weed. Well, yeah. Back those days anyway. Just kidding. I didn't really know that, but yeah, we did know our neighbors grew it. And that was before it was legal. When I first moved to Fort Collins, like risk Canyon was kind of notorious for being like where the good weed was grown. Absolutely. Anyway, well, but there's no money in it anymore. You know, those guys took out the skills, but you can't make any money at it. Cause legalization. Stupid legalization. Well, I think a lot of people still do it for fun up there. Oh, I'm sure. Anyway, I digress. No, no. But that is a unique environment. So you were like up, you went to Stoke Prairie school? Yeah. I went to Stoke Prairie. No doubt. Yep. Yep. Okay. So for those who don't know, Stoke Prairie is a really small elementary school at the top of Risk Canyon. And Risk Canyon is, uh, obviously the smaller, lesser known canyon between Poudre Canyon and Big Thompson, right? Yep. So we lived about seven miles up there. Um, how many kids in that school? It was anywhere between 50 and 60 K through six. Okay. That's what the same, everybody. Um, so I grew up in North Dakota and I went to Buchanan elementary school, which was a, About 65 students and Pingree High School because it was, it was merged. It was Pingree Buchanan Elementary and Pingree Buchanan High School. Um, so very similar grade school environment at least. I give Strobe Prairie and those teachers a very big kudos as to how intelligent and socially adaptable my children are. I don't doubt it at all. Yes. Well, country folk are resilient and adaptable and, You know, it kind of goes to that. And there were six kids in your grade. With hiring, like if you can hire a kid that grew up in a small town in Minnesota or Iowa or something like that, like, I don't care about their other attributes. That's like one point. The work ethic. The work ethic is there. That's ten points. Ten points? Yeah. So you're growing up in Stove Prairie and hanging out, you got five classmates plus you? Yeah. No, you hit the nail on the head. And they combined first and second grade in one classroom. Third and fourth in one classroom. Same for my school. Mm hmm. Fifth and sixth in one classroom. It was awesome. We had potluck lunches every month where all the moms would come and bring their casseroles. I love it. We'd go sledding at recess and I highly doubt they still do this. But, you know, out back there's a pretty steep hill. Um, and it was kind of like two, two separate grades so it was somewhat, Fairly steep and then it would drop. Right. Um, and we used to make a huge jump at the top of that, that drop. So you could just soar. So you would just soar. And I mean, Sometimes people got the wind knocked out of them. Oh, sometimes people broke things. I mean, you know, we'd, we'd, we'd like pile three people, like pancakes, laying on top of each other. You know, somebody's getting crushed at the bottom and like the teacher's just laughing. That's country life. I feel like I'm officially old when I can say it was a different time. Right. Yeah. Well, it wasn't a different time. They were just, I mean, it's still probably a lot more like that up there than it is. Oh yeah. Uh, just cause like North Dakota has barely changed since my dad was a little kid and he's 70. Yeah. And it's just kind of that country mentality just kind of endures a little bit. It's wonderful. We had critter drills. You know, there's all kinds of different drills that students have to endure now, but, uh, back then the big one for us was fire drills and critter drills because, you know, we were on a, on an open, open campus in the mountains and so there was oftentimes cattle would wander onto the playground. Oh, right. Mountain lions. Mountain lions. Could be a mountain lion, right? Yeah, mountain lions came through once or twice. It's not get out of the building, it's on fire. It's like get in the building. It's get in the building. And they never had to worry about shooters. That was never an issue back then. We didn't do shooter drills. Well, there was a bunch of kids with guns in their backpacks already. Other parents did. Nobody messes with the school. Yeah, that's for sure. Um, and then what, what, uh, what did you develop into? What did you, what are you? Good student. Were you an athlete? Like you came to high school down here, I imagine, or middle school or something. What was that like? Yep, so we came to Blevins Middle School down in Fort Collins. Okay. Uh, it was definitely a little bit of a transition. I got, I got in a lot of trouble in middle school. I mean, there, there was, uh Military school pamphlets, you know, that were brought out at one point by mom and dad. Oh. Oh, I was getting, I was getting into fights or something? No, just like tomfoolery antics. Okay. And yeah, just. Panting people and writing with Sharpie on the carpet. Yeah, I got suspended quite a few times. Ooh. Yeah. And probably your grades weren't great either. I was a pretty decent student. I think, I think I've always kind of had the, uh. Usually part of the middle finger that you're raising to society includes getting shitty grades too. No, he always held that together pretty good. That's good. Well, you're obviously super intelligent. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, I mean, super is a loose term. It's, it's relative. Um, no, well, I think that was a part of it, Kurt. Like, I, um, it wasn't super hard for me to, to, uh, Do well in school. Yeah. Yeah. So I had a lot of, uh, extra energy, free gap space, brain power, how to make people's lives miserable. Yeah. Especially just kidding. Well, it's like, you know, time. Um, so yeah, I came, came out of that just fine in high school. I kind of like, uh, toed the line between like the, uh, the alternative folks and the popular crowd, I got along really well with both sides. Well, and that's probably, I would say I resonate with that notion. It was a good liminal place. I can hang out with the CEOs, but I could also, you know, start lines behind the bar. Yeah. Maybe not that, Um, so yeah, no, no high school, high school was fine. Um, also to had a little bit of a pothead phase for sure. Up there in the Canyon. No, not that young. Fair enough. Well, you had good connections from back in the day. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, that's no, that was never an issue. And then, uh, were you outback steakhouse? Like, CSU and Outback, kinda? Or what else did you do along that career journey? First job I ever had was a discount tire. And to this day, that was the best job that I ever had. Really? Oh, I mean I think it's a little more corporate now than it was then, but back then it was like a true garage mentality and it was me and a bunch of guys that were much older than me. There was hazing, you worked your ass off, you know, they'd buy me beer and we'd drink it behind the shop at the end of the day, you know, I'm like 16, 17. It was awesome. I love it. It was awesome. Yeah, I was there like three, four years. I worked my way up to the, the highest level you could be without being like a salary manager. Oh, cool. I was the one selling the tires and working with customers. And I was like, you know, that's meant you were the shit. Did you have some notions of doing something more physical like that? And instead of like, it's always, yeah, yeah. Is the short answer. Do you do stuff like that now? You built your own like camper van and stuff, right? Yeah. That's doing, doing things with my hands is how I relax. That's kind of your expression. Yeah. I might as cooking, but I can understand it. You know, something like that being, yeah. Cause I stare at screens and talk on the phone all day for a living. So. I think it's somebody, somebody told me if you work with your brain, relax with your hands. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. That's interesting. I've never really heard that, but I like it a lot. That's like, I cook almost all the time for our family because I get done with a long day of work and then I just want to go home and relax. And for me that includes chopping vegetables and yeah. I've got salsa out here. I made two and a half gallons of salsa yesterday. Wow. It was a chore. I didn't realize how many tomatoes I had. Is that for your thinker fest tomorrow? Oh no, it's not for that. It's just because I had 38 tomatoes. My garden is a rocket right now. Didn't want to let them go to waste. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, So anyway, I digress, uh, so kind of traditional kind of college into food service industry and kind of where we where we link back up here Yeah, yeah a little bit the other neat job I had in between there was uh, I was a brand ambassador for kind snacks Okay, like kind bars. Yeah. Yeah. It was a real short stint. They did the university ambassador program Okay, but in short I'd work like eight to twelve hours a week promoting the brand And they would send me anywhere between 000 bars a month. Oh, wow. Yeah. Damn. I mean, like, there was a room Like, just getting rid of all those is a lot of work. Well, it became a game. It became a game, Kurt. It was, uh, it was a staple in the household of myself and all college friends. They all knew where to get the snacks. We all had a surplus of Kind Bars. And in times of, uh, Call it leanness. Right. I know I had a few friends that ate nothing but kind bars. It's college. Totally. But you could also trade somebody a case of kind bars for a six pack of beer. It was a currency. Well, the dollar was facing a lot of duress at that time. Everybody needs food. The kind bar was strong. It was fun. So yeah, no, I've always had a lot of customer facing people. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Really enjoyed it. Would you like, if, if there was a way for you to use your skill set, but be in front of people more like you're out and about a lot, honestly, like I see you, I probably see you about as much as. Any single person in Northern Colorado when I'm out doing my networking and bopping around. Yeah. It's a quite a bit. Yeah. Um, would you like to do it more or is it more intentionally? Like what are your, what are your favorite things about your job and least favorite? My favorite things are definitely talking with people. Yeah. Um, whether it's behind a screen or a phone, um, or in person, it doesn't matter too much. Really? In person's of course preferred. Uh, but yeah, no, it's, it's the relationships you build and the opportunity to learn and talk from others or talk with others. But, uh. Least favorite? As time goes on, it's the, uh, quote unquote, admin work, right? Cause you know, obviously our, our entire ecosystem exists within software, right? And if you got that phone call, you better make some notes on that. Yeah. You're only as your, your data is only as good as your inputs. And I still struggle with that sometimes, you know, if things aren't notated and everything's not perfect, then your reference points are off. Totally. Um, so that, the piece that comes with that and the, yeah. Yeah. Well, and you really get yourself. Yeah. Better at it if you do it. It's one of those things that's more learned skill than something innate. How about you, Trish? Uh, what's your favorite parts about your job and least favorite? The people interactions my favorite part like the team or the customers both any candidates all of it Um, I mean back in the day I did it all like it was me and one other guy Learned how to do it all. Um, I don't recruit much anymore, but I still love to answer the phone because I like to help people Yeah And I love to celebrate the wins when people get hired. And like Isaac mentioned earlier, in this business, there's a lot more lows than highs. So when you get a win, we really, really embrace that one, getting somebody a new job, getting their family food on the table. It's just awesome. Our new employee asked today, what's the bell on the column out there for us? Like, Well, cause that's what we ring when we have something to celebrate like a new member or something like that. Yeah. It's fun. Always time for more cowbell. How about a least favorite parts about your job? It's the admin stuff. I hate the workers comp stuff. All right. Yeah. Oh yeah. I bet that's a pain in the ass with all these fractional employees and stuff. It's a pain. It's the biggest pain in the ass of the staffing industry. You listening Donald Trump? State of Colorado. State of Colorado. There you go. It's a big problem. Sorry. Trump's not the president yet. Yeah. Um, it's time actually to jump into our Faith family politics segments. Um, where would you like to start? You pick, Trish. Oh, let's go with Faith real quick. Okay, real quick. Um I don't know. What do you want to know? I don't know. I was raised Catholic. Oh, Catholic. I was raised Catholic. A Catholic in Baptist land, huh? My mom was very Southern Baptist. My dad was Catholic. That did not go so well early in the day when they were engaged, but it turned out to work out just great. They were fine with it. Their parents just didn't think it was right. Correct. That was not what you did back in the sixties, seven or six, or whatever it was. Um, raised Catholic. Um. Correct. Um. You know, as I got older, I, I've, oh, I would say I'm religious. I'm not, you mean spiritual, not religious or religious, not spiritual, both. I think I'm both. I, you're religious. No, I think I'm religious and I have those, but I'm not one to force it on people. I know it's, it's a private thing to me to some extent. Um, I, I don't really go to church anymore, um, partially because of COVID and laziness, but non denominational, for sure, I still listen to service quite a bit on the weekends. Okay, okay. Um, yeah. So you still think Jesus is cool, you just don't? Absolutely. Don't give them too much of your time anymore, kind of, right now, at least. Maybe that's a decent way to put it, yeah. Jesus is pretty dang cool. Um, yeah. I still pray, but it's mostly God. Please don't let this contract in. And do you identify Catholic? Or do you identify Non denominational. Non denominational. I'd say non denominational. Yeah. I've gone to Foundations Church for quite a while. Okay. And Flatirons. So, when you go Christmas, Eastern, stuff like that a little bit? That's what I listen to on the weekends. Oh, gotcha. Go. Oh, so you're part of that community? And I really like, what is uh, is it Zac Brown? Like, Toes in the Sun? No. What's that song? Like, you know, I can, I can do the God thing, sit in front of the ocean. Right, right. No, I agree with that. Or the mountains. Or on top of a mountain. Yeah. Or, for me, like, going fast on a curvy canyon on my motorcycle. You better do a lot of praying when you do that. Oh, don't have enough bandwidth, gotta pay all the attention to the traction quotient there. I did have both of my children baptized. Okay. Whether or not they wanted it, they didn't have a choice in the matter. Um, but that was just how I grew up. Yeah. Yeah. Let's shift the same question to you, young Isaac. I would definitely say I'm more spiritual than religious. Okay. So you haven't, like, gotten baptized for yourself, for example. That's correct. Yeah. That's correct, yeah. No, I think, I think if you step back and, and pay attention to what's going on in the world, there's too many signs that things are interconnected to ignore. Right. Bye. Um, what facilitates that? I can't answer. Yeah, yeah. Um, so, so, not gonna go full atheist, cause that's like, not believable hardly. But whether it's the, the Christian God, or whether what Jesus did actually does what they say it does. Kind of thing you're not quite convinced there. It's just, it's, you know, I, I, we've seen how quickly a story can evolve and change in a five year period. Right. It makes me wonder, you know, how much things have changed in a two thousand year period. It's hard for me to ascribe any sort of, um Do you do any kind of investigations into that sphere? No, I Spend any time? I can't say I have really. I, I Are you a Jordan Peterson guy? No. No. Um, I've, I've listened to a fair amount of his stuff. Um, I, I do enjoy it a lot. Cherry picks some of his stuff because he's been exploring, like, when I started listening to him, he was definitely not a Christian. And, I wouldn't, he would say he, I, almost like identifies as a Christian now, but, but the big thing is he's, I would say he's almost like, even if Christianity is poppycock, like the, the mythology and the power and the depth of the revelation of it, is beyond anything else that the world currently offers. If that makes sense. Uh, just kind of like it's, who knows if it's true, but it's obviously the best one, and so I should, might as well act like that. And that was what I told my father in law when I first went to church. I was like, it'll probably turn me into a better guy. It's not gonna make you worse. Even if it ain't right, yeah. It's not gonna make you worse. Unlikely, yeah. Taking point, putting your pointer at anything. I think having something, that's one of the big things I've been concerned with the last few years is, like, if God is dead, then the state is God, and if the state is God, then we're all fucked, kind of. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so that's kind of where I, where I hang my notion. Well, and, and, and for those that think either themself or the state is the highest thing, like, even if it, even if it's not, it's interesting, God is like a useful concept even if it's not true. In some ways. Like, having something that is above all. Yep. Um, and what those principles stand for. So, anyway, that's just a little bit of my old guy's talk. I like that. I like that. Um, and I don't know which one is right, which one is more right. But I think anything that does have, you know, even Judaism with a different, with the same God but a different creed. Uh, it's still more useful than like, I just let my pointer spin. Mm hmm. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good way to put it. Um, so faith, family. Um, we always do a one word description of the children. Trish, would you like to do that with, uh? Two bonus children as well. Okay. Brian has two. All right. And we've been together 10 years, 11 years. Long enough to get to know them for, for that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're great. Absolutely. Um, do you want to start? Go in age or yeah, just one word and you can, you could expand on it from there, but it's, it's hard to refine things to one word sometimes. Well Emma's 24, Isaac's 28, Rachel's 27, that's his youngest, and Ryan is 30. Oh interesting, that was a really close, like you guys were all kind of the same age and that was all, We do family vacations and they're all very close. I wouldn't say they, they didn't really grow up together, but they would be there for each other if they need each other. They get along great when they're together. Yeah. Yeah. They're great. I've got step siblings now too. My dad and my dad and mom divorced after my wife and I married when I was like 30. That's different. And then my dad remarried and I've got a few more siblings, but, and that's been neat. It's a different experience than I get. I really like it. Um, anyway, so back to you, Trish. I really have a word. I'm very grateful. I'm grateful that our family is close. Yeah. I get to see the kids a lot, um, I get along great with his dad. We get along great with Brian's ex wife. It's just, it's like a level, different tiers of family and we're still all family. I dig it. I dig it. How about the, the two closest? Will you give me a one word for Isaac and Emma? How often do you ask that question with the, uh, focus of the word sitting next to the one talking? Oh, you know, whenever it happens to be, um. Blessed. Isaac is blessed. I am very, I am blessed to have them both. No, I want a different word for each of them. One word for Isaac and one word for Emma. I want to say Mr. Clean for Isaac, but it's just because That's my go to Halloween costume. His dad used to do it too. Glue a couple cotton balls, get a gold earring, wear white, you're done. Oh my goodness, you're making me think on my feet. Um, that describes him. Yeah, maybe it's right now, maybe it's over time even. I can only, I feel very selfish because I'm only thinking what I think. Um Outgoing. It's too boring. I can't put it into one word, but if he puts his mind to it, he can be driven. Driven. Yes. Very driven. Keep going, Kurt. I mean, I like your list. Yeah. Driven. It's a great one. Like he definitely puts his mind to something and he makes it focused perhaps. Uh, maybe not that though. Cause he seems like he's an inch deep and a mile wide, so it's more driven than focused. I would agree with that. Um, Emma, Emma. Hmm. She's overcome some. Some obstacles and she has now got her master's in social work. I'm so proud of her. Um, what's a good word for that? Resilient. Resilient. Yeah. Very resilient. You know, being someone that has overcome is going to be very important for her in the social work realm. Oh, she's fantastic. Because people, social workers that have never actually went through anything are just not nearly as good at it. From my experience. Agreed. Um, let's talk about Brian a little bit. Huh? Brian. Yeah. Where'd you find him? I found him on Match. I was about done. I was about done dating. Isaac was about to go off to college and I was like, I'm just, we're going to downsize him. Oh, we're going to go move to a condo and found him on Match. He, after kissing several frogs over eight years, have a few relationships. Um, he is absolutely wonderful. He's a wonderful husband. He's a wonderful dad. He's wonderful stepdad. He's a great person. Um, my children love him. They love him. Yeah. Oh yeah. Was it just like that? Like. After the first date, like after four dates, we knew, okay, we knew, and we got engaged six months later and married a year and a half after we met. Okay, I've been together for 11 years already. Kind of old people. That's really fast in today's world. And nobody thought we were crazy, right? That's awesome because they're like, it just fits. It just works. Yeah, sometimes it just works. It just works. My favorite person to be with in the whole world. I love it. Um, Isaac, you mentioned a fiance earlier in this conversation. You want to talk about that? This person? Yeah, yeah. Uh, her name's Tina. Okay. We actually knew each other in college. Okay. Um, she's got a funny story she likes to tell about when we were riding on a, a bus to the Rocky Mountain Showdown. Back when they did it in Denver. Oh, sure. Yep. Uh, and, and I was in the seat in front of her and we got to talking and I got her phone number but I never texted her. Oh, I guess that was uncommon for her in college. Right. Yeah. She's very attractive. Um, and then it was like 2021, I guess that was, uh, you know, obviously we didn't, we saw each other at parties. We knew who the other was. Yeah. Never really interfaced other than that. But in 2021 or so, yeah, no, it was, uh, yeah, probably like May 2021. I was at the gym, and it was really busy, and I needed a squat rack, and I saw a girl taking weights off of a barbell. So I scurried over there, because I didn't want anyone else to get it. I said, hey, are you done with that? And she turned around and was like, wait, I know you. And one thing led to another, and yeah, that was three years ago. We got engaged June 1st this year. Talk to me about her. Um, what's she doing with her life? She works for the CSU Foundation. Okay. Yep, so she's an operations coordinator, um, handles a lot of gift receipt logistics. Okay, so she doesn't have to call people and ask them for money. She just sends them their receipt after they've already given, makes sure they got it. Yep, people call her and say, have you got my million dollar check yet? And here's, is it going where I want it to go? Right. Cool. Fun. What, uh, why do you think this pretty lady let you ask her out a second time? That's a good question. It requires some reflection and introspection. Ask her out a second time. Um I mean, I was pretty persistent. Okay. All not, not, not in a weird way. I, like, I, I, I'd known her for years and knew she was funny. I knew she was Yeah. You made I kind of knew what she was about. Well, and uh, I like to say, uh, flattery will get you everywhere with me. I mean, it's not necessarily flattery, but like if she could perceive that you really thought she was. There's not much more I like in a person than for them to really think I'm awesome. Yeah, no, I think that's, that's, that's inherently human, Kurt. It's not just you. And I think it probably goes both ways. Exactly, yeah, yeah. So, dig it? Yeah, no, and uh, we were, we were kind of just friends at first, I guess. Okay. You didn't push it too hard, which also is refreshing sometimes. Yeah, yeah. In this modern era, I suppose. Definitely, definitely. Um, I think timing, as we spoke of earlier in the podcast, played a solid role. She was, she just graduated, was trying to figure out what she wanted to do. Um, she had gotten out of a longer relationship a little bit prior to us kind of reconnecting. Yeah. Yeah. It's far enough away. Exactly. It wasn't fresh. Exactly. No rebound guy risk or not too much. Maybe I was the rebound guy. Who knows? But as long as it's stuck. She adores him. She absolutely adores him. Yeah. She's awesome. You are pretty adorable. Thank you, Kurt. Um, that's Faith Family Politics. And we got about, uh, 14 minutes or so. Um, Oh, I just saw, I was actually right before you guys got here. Tulsi Gabbard gave a big speech endorsing Donald Trump today, which is interesting. Um, she's one of my favorite people in politics in some respects. He's just a pretty straight shooter in my opinion. Uh, what, uh, Trish, let's go back to you. What's, uh, you're not, well, it's interesting cause I, I was a pretty diehard liberal most of my early, maybe early adult life. Okay. In fact, Brian and I were very, that was our biggest difference. I was pretty diehard liberal. He was very conservative. Then you own a business and I'm not going to get too detailed here, but I, you can, you own a business too. You can see the amount of stuff that has come down the pipe and yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's absolutely insane. Um, so yeah, that's, I, I, I will say that I can think for myself. I'm not, I don't, I have a little bit of. Yeah, you know, you're a closet libertarian too. Maybe that maybe that's a word. I don't know enough about it But yeah, like there's some stuff on both sides I should truly believe in but so you want to talk about well What are some of your big most important things in the political realm? I think the legislative side on business owners has been a real I'm on the CSA Colorado Staffing Association board And so I'm very involved in the legislative piece of things kind of the regulatory bird. Yes, and it has really been enlightening Yeah. It's really been enlightening over the past few years. So that has been huge. Um, that's one thing I don't know if I should say this publicly, but it will. I am not a fan of abortion, but I do not think it should be outlawed. Yeah. Um, that is one thing. What do you think about how it is now where states can have different rules about abortion? I kind of think it's bullshit because they're just going to go get it somewhere else. Right. Well, but isn't that kind of okay? I, A little bit? I don't know. I don't know. That's what, that's what I've always felt was it wasn't really the federal government's business. And, and especially if, like, if somebody wants to go from, like, wants to mail order some abortion drugs to Alabama, but it's illegal in Alabama, but there's no legal risk, like. As long as they can get it elsewhere, I suppose that's fine. Or go across state lines, even, like, I'm sorry, but every state in the union, if they If you can't drive two hours to go get an abortion, then you should probably change your lifestyle to a little bit more, you know, and I get it, you know, buses and all that, but I'd rather it be state regulated than federal for sure. Society flourishes more when, when, when, when responsibility is higher, I think, than it has gotten to be. Anyway. How about, uh, how about you, Isaac Kov? What was that last word again? Isaac Kov. Isaac Kov. Isaac Kov. Um. What would you like to say in the political space? I'm going to bring it back to you too, Trish. You're not off yet. I'm just, uh, going to ask, uh. I don't love talking about that. I know. That's probably why he likes asking them. Yeah. Mm hmm. Not people, not many people get asked about that. Where, where, you, I, I have to, um, Compliment you in that, uh, probably you've dropped me like three or four notes over the last three or four years saying, Hey, good blog. It's probably about as much as any one person. Like I get one or two or three most months, but it's not the same person very often and stuff. Um, what is it about, like, is it the willingness to say things that might be less than, um, politically correct or somewhat controversial? Or what is it about? My writing topics or style that causes you to hit reply and say hey good one this time. No, no That's a good question. And I do like your blogs very much. It's I think a function of both, right? There's not a lot of people that are willing to put themselves out there publicly and share what they think Yeah, without fear of repercussion and being a business owner certainly does allow Right. No, seriously, it's like, you know, you You, you can't, you can't get fired. You can't, well, I guess, but your customers can quit, which is almost more dangerous. Like I've had a lot of business owners be like, dude, you're doing it wrong. Like as a business owner, you're supposed to totally stay off of that rail. Have you lost members by function of the blog? Eh, a handful. Yeah? And probably gained a handful. Sure. You know, I think it's probably, I don't know, I would say it's a net wash probably. Like, there's probably some members that are still with me that are stuck with me because they just appreciate that I'm a crazy guy like that. Mm hmm. And others that are like, man, I would never go back to that crazy guy's organization. I don't know. Well, I guess to answer the second part of your question, yeah, no, I appreciate that you're willing to speak publicly about things that many would not. But also, uh, I don't think a lot of people today in particular step back to Look at issues kind of objectively and omnisciently. Try to think of things. Yeah, and think of the why. You know, a lot of people, well, and we've been trained to do it, right? By function of media and politics and things. To just snap react to the emotional component of the headline. Yeah, I got 144 characters to make a point. Exactly. That I've done. Exactly. And everybody's fighting for attention. I dig it. Um, and so people don't take the time to often. Follow the trail, right? Like what, and ask why and figure out what kind of the impetus of some of, you know, policy changes might be. Yeah, I dig it. Or the repercussions, or how is this intertwined with this? And then how does that trickle down to the end user? Yeah, yeah. And why does that make sense or not? Yeah, yeah. Relative to kind of the narrative and agenda that's being pushed. I appreciate that. And things like that. Thank you, thank you. Sure. Um, so where, are you politically homeless now, Trish? Sure. No. Is that the way you feel? No. I mean, I'll, I'll definitely be on the Trump, Trump wagon. Not a big fan. He's not my favorite person. Hold your nose and vote. But, but, as far as where our country needs to go, I definitely think he's the top. Well, and what do you think about the process by which Biden became the nominee and then Harris? I don't really have good words for that. Well, I, I guess my, my take on that is that that's another instance where I don't think a lot of people who are normally, uh, very willing to stand up and, and be loud about things took the liberty to stand back and say, wait a minute, we didn't have a say in this. We didn't, we didn't get to elect our nominee. We didn't get to have any input whatsoever. This was everybody. Clearly knew he wasn't going to make it to be the nominee, but nobody really asked what was going to happen or how they were going to handle it. And then when, when there was just a, for lack of a better term, an executive decision made by somebody, by somebody who's been probably more influential this whole time than any of us would care to admit, they just kind of said, okay, here we go. And, and yeah, there were some people speaking out against the swap out and stuff, and then as soon as it was decided, they just shut the hell up. Well, and you know, every, every, I, I support everybody's, you know, freedom to, to think what they want to think and, and say what they want to say. That's very important. But I also don't totally understand how people can flip a switch overnight from worst vice president ever to Kamala the savior. Exactly. No, seriously. You just took the words out of my mouth. It's pretty loud. She's been absentee for lack of a better term, mostly. The entire administration, and then overnight with the flip of a switch, she's going to save the country. Although she's actually had the opportunity to effect change for the past few years and hasn't done it. Presumably. Either that or the presidential position doesn't matter at all. Right. So I have some concern there. Do you want to hear my summary of this situation? That'd be great. Hopefully I haven't said it on the podcast before. I might have. But, uh, the vegetable makes way for the plant without a vote to save democracy. You might. I have to think about this. Okay. The vegetable is Biden, the plant is Harris, without a vote to save democracy. Okay, I'm following you, I like that. That took me a minute. That did me too, that's good, you had to help us a bit. I saw you, Trish, when it clicked. Yep, yep, yep. I just, what it feels like, it's like, like nobody would have ever voted for Kamala Harris to be the nominee. Oh no. Like, Robert Kennedy Jr. would have Beat the pants off of her in the democratic primary if he had have been allowed to compete in the democratic democratic Primary, well, maybe maybe you know the answer to this. I don't like are there going to be debates now with our new candidate? There was one schedule. They're supposed to be a second. Okay. I hadn't heard anything. I would hope so. I doubt it I think they're probably just going to try to find an excuse to blame Donald Trump and not have a debate and just like see what happens. I don't know. I don't know. It's very different than when we were younger. I mean, people could talk about politics without hating each other and that, that's the really sad. Well, and all this, like, like with Tulsi and, and with RFK, like neither of them really thinks Donald Trump is really a great guy and they just really can't stand what's happened here or the idea of this. I mean, probably communist ish lady, like coasting into the presidency without qualification nor vote. That just seems disturbing to me. I don't like him either, but he's out of, out of the two options we have more effective at doing the job. I mean, you got to stop thinking. I haven't voted mainstream. You're not marrying that one. You just want him to run your country. Right. He doesn't get to hang out with my sister for an hour. Yeah. And you got to think about it. I heard this somewhere. It's not, this isn't, this isn't my thought, but you know, it's, it's true. What's the best choice now to get us to the opportunity to make a better choice later? Right, and there, there is a clear Um, the look of experience is the closing segment. Who's ready first? This is the craziest experience that you're willing to share to our listening audience. Oh man, you got some good ones. Let me go first because you can, you can end on a really good note. You're gonna set the bar. Yeah, cause mine's, I live a pretty benign life, apparently. I had to text my daughter and my husband like, What have I done? Like, what? Surprise, this isn't that crazy, but it's a funny story. Um, so his dad and I raised pigs up in Wrist Canyon. Oh, okay. And his dad still does, there's other crazy stories. It's always a frickin crazy. Pigs are crazy. It's crazy. Just in themselves. But so, I don't remember what year this was. Have you ever hogged anybody off? Just kidding. Well, I did, yeah. You don't want to hear that, yeah. Do you know what hogging somebody off means, Isaac? I can't say I do. No. If you kill somebody, the best way to really dispose of the body is to hog them off. Oh, give them to a pig. Yeah, give them to a bunch of pigs, ideally. They'll eat them right up. Especially wild pigs. I have heard that, but I haven't heard the term. I haven't heard the term. Yeah, boars especially. They'll eat, they'll eat a person real fast. Anyway. All right. It's not a crazy story, but it's an interesting story. It's not that crazy. No hogging off. Okay. All right. So, I don't know what year it was. Probably 05 or something like that. And I lived up in Risk Canyon. I worked from home a lot. Um, I'd taken the kids down to the bus stop to go to Stowe Prairie, and I'd come back. The pigs had a one acre fence kind of near our master bedroom, so that we could keep an eye and listen and make sure they were safe. And Zach did a great job of making sure that they were safe. We had a rubber buck shot ready at the window. We had it all, you know, ready to go. And I hear these, this is like two days before we're taking them to slaughter, right? So I, I never, we never named them. I didn't, I think the kids, bacon, pork, et cetera. Yes. But it's, I was always struggled with it. I always took excellent care of them, but I didn't want to get emotionally attached because it was difficult for me. So I hear these pigs struggling out there and, and carrying on and I'm like, Oh my God. So I look out and there's a fricking bear going after our little piggies. They're not little anymore. They're probably what, 150 pounds by now. Oh, they'll, they'll push 300 by the turn, you see. Maybe it was too, I can't remember. Yeah, they were big. They were big. Yeah, yeah. But the bear was hungry. Right, right. Um. And bigger. And bigger. And tearing into a couple. And has big claws and teeth, comparatively. So, yeah. And they're very expensive at this point. Right. Oh, yeah. We have invested a shitload 30 year family income. It's an emotional investment because of all the money you spent. Right. So, I go out there with, I can't remember if it was the buckshot. I think I started with the buckshot. I didn't want to shoot the bear, but I needed it to go away. And not hurt my piggies. So, yeah, I did, I did some, that's the only time I'd ever shot by myself anywhere. Zach O'Brien has always been with me shooting, you know, but I actually got out the guns and was like, going after it, trying to get, I didn't try to shoot it. I did scare it away. Okay. Did a warning shot. Enough to save the pigs. You didn't shoot at it. No. You shot into the air. Yes. But for me, that was a big deal. I agree with that big deal, but why not just shoot it? Because I didn't want to get in trouble. Well, I didn't want to shoot it. It was attacking your property though. Yeah. Yeah. If it wouldn't have left, there's many more stories where this comes from, but, um, from your dad more, but, uh, I didn't want to get in trouble with the government for one thing. And also because he had already been in trouble a little bit, if he had left, if he wasn't going to leave, I was going to shoot him if I was that good of a shot. That's pretty intense. That's pretty intense. I was drying my hair. Didn't right. Wasn't really dressed yet. What if the bear would come running at you? I wasn't that close. Yeah, Isaac, your turn. I've thought pretty hard about this. Consulted with my two closest confidants, Tina and my best friend. And there's a lot of stories that I'd love to share with you over a beverage at another time, but the one I'll share now, uh, involves a car. I've had a lot of weird experiences with a car. All right. Um, both good and bad. Is that somebody's phone? Yeah. It sounds like it's in my, in my headphones. I'll continue all the same, but so, um, a lot, a lot of near, near death experiences in a car. Um, one of which was a little bit more profound to me. I was with a good friend of mine. His name was Ian. And, um, you know, I grew up in the mountains. Like I, I grew up sliding four wheelers around. I learned to drive when I was 13, finding the edge of traction since I was six. That's a great way to put it. And in all seriousness, I think it's made me a better driver because I know what the threshold is and I know how to recover from it. But. You know, we were, I think, 18 or 19, um, and it had just been dumping snow. And we live real close to Horsetooth Reservoir at the time. And we decided we were going to go out for a little 2 a. m. drift and you know, it's Horsetooth, it's up County Road, whatever. It's not, it's not maintained until like 6 a. m. Plows run out, six inches of snow on the ground. We're in his little Subaru and, uh, we were having a blast. Right. Um, he was driving, I was not. Old school Subaru's before the traction control got too heavy. The e brake handle right between the seats. Oh, they're a blast. There's nothing more fun to slide around than a Prio 5 Subaru. Agreed. Um, and I've had many of them. I had GT. Oh yeah, yeah, no traction control. Um, so there's a, there's a point, and I'm not going to remember the roads correctly, but if you're coming down, if you're headed, uh, It'd be south on the reservoir, uh, you come down off, again, I don't, I don't know the road. To come down to the stadium area there? No, no. As far, as far south as you can go while driving parallel with the long end. The, what would be east side of the rest of the way. Um, you come down a real big hill and then it tees with what, as you descend becomes harmony. That's monster mountain. Monster mountain. Yeah. There you go. Um, so we came down to where it teed. We turned left to go down harmony and head home. This was like the conclusion of our little drift session. And for anybody who knows the area, there's a big right hand sweeping turn. Um, that I think Ian probably realized was, uh, Going to be like the last big drift opportunity of the evening. And I mean, he just ripped it and I, you know, how they're still rocking six inches of fresh snow kind of thing. And having slid stuff around most of my life, you can kind of predict, you know, where the threshold is and you can kind of feel the inertia and you can see the distance and you kind of learn to know what's going to happen. I immediately knew that we were going too fast and you know, there was that little glimmer of hope in your heart that perhaps maybe I was wrong, but my calculations say that, yeah. And it became very apparent, I mean, we're going like 45, it was, it was so stupid, you know, we were, we were young, but he's probably going 45 around this corner. And we Fly off the cliff like just right. It would be the the east facing side of that road. There's no Nothing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we're airborne for what felt like a lifetime. It's probably two or three seconds you know hit the ground and There's snow blowing up over the windshield. You can't see anything and I was just you know Kind of waiting to blackout like right. This is it. Right. When does it end and all of a sudden we jolt forward and then I feel like I'm staring at the sky. And what had happened was we were in the car. Didn't roll. I was waiting it for a minute. Cause we're traversing this hill. You're going sideways. Yeah. Once we hit. Yep. So we're. Plowing down the hill in the snow, and we'd hit a boulder, effectively, a really big boulder, and it kicked us straight up. Oh, shit. And so we were, we were Look at that angle, though. 90 degrees to the ground, yeah, and I was star we were staring into space, and then it came down on top of that rock. Oh, shit. Um, and as far as I'm concerned, that rock's probably what saved our lives that day. Yeah. Because we would've kept going, something would've happened, we would've rolled, so it only got steeper. Oh, that's crazy. We ended up being about 200 yards down from the road. And just hit that and it somehow just kind of launched you into a, like a weird vertical launch, but didn't stop you had you just stopped and you just plowed into it, it would have wrecked you. Yeah, we hit it just right. It effectively did end up stopping us. We kind of fell down on it and then, uh, but it wasn't an abrupt stop. No, no, like going fast. Doesn't hurt you. It's just stopping fast airbags didn't go off. No, it was, it was about as smooth as you could ask for it. The worst injury I sustained from that whole ordeal was, uh, actually slamming my knee on that rock when I was exiting the, um, I just, I remember, uh, uh, the plow drivers, ironically they must plow that harmony facing road. before the, uh, the one that goes a little further north. But there was a plow driver on that road and they saw the tracks that came off and they yelled down to us and asked if we were okay. We said, yeah, and they waited for us to walk up. And I remember just like the most euphoric. Like, holy shit, I'm not dead. Yeah, yeah, we were just laughing. It was, it was the most alive I've ever felt. Uh, which probably sounds like I'm an adrenaline junkie or something. But, uh, it was, it was, uh, it was pivotal. Because, yeah, you, you, you had an appreciation for life that you'd never had otherwise. Did you, uh, slow it down just a little notch from there, Johnny? Well, I wasn't driving, but it certainly, uh Well, it still matters, though. It, it certainly had an impact on, uh, on my winter driving. So, uh, I guess if people want to look you guys up, just, uh, Google the NoCo Snelling Solutions of Northern Colorado. Just Snelling. It'll come up. Yep, Snelling. Oh, Snelling and then search for Northern Colorado and you'll find it. It should come up on it. Yeah, we, uh, we've had some pretty good marketing partners throughout the years. Okay. And, uh, if you search snowing or staffing in G4 Collins, any of those nice keywords, we target, yeah, we'll be right up there. I dig it. We'll, uh, we'll be found. Yep. Staffing, noco. com is our website. Well, thanks for, uh, Thank you for sharing time today, you guys. It's been a fun conversation, and uh, that was one of the most intense, uh, loco experiences I've heard. So, if you've got a library of them, we'll have to, uh Oh, he does. I think I'm gonna have a special episode in the tank for the people who have the most crazy stories that I know. Cause I got quite a few too. Well, considering that was the mild one that I chose to share today. I, I, we could certainly Are you okay with this mom? Yeah. I know some cancel him for sharing too many crazy stories. We were all crazy at one point in our life. I think he's settled somewhat. Somewhat. I'll tell you the Mexico ones next time. It sounds good. Not online though. Thanks you too. Thanks Kurt. Next time. Bye.