EXPERIENCE 174 | Many Chapters, Music Always - An Inspiring Conversation with Max Mackey, Singer/Songwriter for Max Mackey Music, Max Mackey Trio, Max Mackey Band, et al.

I met Max Mackey soon after he opened Moto Haus Coffee in South Fort Collins off College Avenue.  I’d recently become the proud owner of a 1976 BMW R75/6, and the former owner told me of a group of old (and some younger mostly BMW guys that met regularly for evening coffee and riding.  It was the coolest spot in town for the riding community for several years, but was ultimately killed by the Great Recession.  I kept the R75 for over 10 years, and she served me truly, upstaged in most parking lots only by Max’s earlier-model` R75/5 with a chrome toaster tank!  

The closure of Max’s coffee shop led to a long-term chapter with Coda Coffee in Denver, and lots of music, especially as guitar and vocals with the band Thunk - for 16 years!  In 2018, after his girls were out of the nest, Max took the leap into full-time music - playing everywhere he could make at least $100 plus tips.  His growing popularity led to an album effort based in California, but Covid delays interrupted the album, and then a tragic motorcycle accident flipped the script and shattered his knee and sent him into a tailspin.  Many months and much pain and physical regression later, Max went into a surgery not knowing if he’d lose his leg below the knee or not.

Max came out of that surgery with a new mechanical knee, and a new lease on life.  His music career caught fresh fire, and turned into a trio, and then into a band, and now he’s a “what size do you need?” original music plus great jam covers offering to the Colorado community.  This was an intensely personal conversation re-getting to know a friend from long ago, and I’m certain you’ll enjoy my conversation with Max Mackey.  

Look for Max’s new album coming soon - Eyes on the Road - and check out Max’s upcoming dates and more here

July 3rd - Penrose Taproom | Fort Collins CO. 6:00-9:00 pm

July 6th - Panhandler's Pizza | Fort Collins CO. 7:00-9:00 pm

July 7th - St Julien Hotel | Boulder CO. 12:00-3:00 pm

The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/

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Music By: A Brother's Fountain

Transcript

0:41

I met Max Mackey soon after he opened the Moto House Coffee in South Fort Collins off College Avenue. I'd recently become the proud owner of a 1976 BMW R75 Slash 6 and the former owner told me of a group of old, and some younger, mostly BMW guys that met regularly for evening coffee and riding. It was the coolest spot in town for the riding community for several years. But was ultimately killed by the Great Recession. I kept the R 75 for over 10 years, and she served me well. Upstaged in most parking lots only by Max's earlier model R 75 5 with a chrome toaster tank. The closure of Max's coffee shop led to a long term chapter with Coda Coffee in Denver, and lots of music, especially his guitar and vocals with the band Thunk, for 16 years. In 2018, after his girls were out of the nest, Max took the leap into full time music, playing everywhere he could make at least 100 plus tips. His growing popularity led to an album effort based in California, but COVID delays interrupted the album and then a tragic motorcycle accident flipped the script and shattered his knee and sent him into a tailspin. Many months and much pain and physical regression later, Max went into a surgery not knowing if he'd lose his leg below the knee or not. Max came out of that surgery with a new mechanical knee and a new lease on life. His music career caught fresh fire and turned into a trio, you. And then into a band, and now he's a what size do you need original music plus great jam covers offering to the local Colorado music community, and beyond. This was an intensely personal conversation, re getting to know a friend from long ago, and I'm certain you'll enjoy my conversation with Max Mackey. Look for Max's new album coming soon, Eyes on the Road, and check out Max's upcoming dates and more at maxmackey. com. July 3rd, Penrose Taproom, July 6th, Panhandler's Pizza, and July 7th at the St. Julian Hotel in Boulder. Motorcycles are dangerous. It's like, well, you know, motorcycles just sit there. They don't do anything. Right. It's the people that are dangerous. Yeah. It's an inanimate object. That can be dangerous. Um, driven by the wrong person, but more dangerous is being ignored by the cagers, right? That's it. The cages. I haven't heard that. That's funny. Self imposed cage. Cagers. Well, um, I'll lead us in and then, uh, we'll, we'll have a good time here. All right. Um, Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. My guest today is Max Mackey. And Max is the founder, owner, CEO, and janitor at Max Mackey Music. All of those things. And more. And more. Especially the janitor. So, um, like for our listeners that haven't, uh, caught you in a show, uh, what, what is Max Mackey Music? Yeah, um, In a big zoom up approach wise. Yeah, um, looking outside, looking in, uh, Uh, I have been a full time, well, I've been a musician most of my life. I think I played my first gig with my Check this, you can tuck your, tuck your cord in either underneath your leg or in the cushion or whatever and it doesn't pull on your ear. Hopefully also bad. Uh, I played my first gig when I was 15 years old. Um, and I really have with a little bit of a gap between 16 and 19. Um, I had been playing music, a lot of music, the majority of my life. I'm 49 years old. So that puts 30 years of a lot, you know, there are people say, Oh, I've played guitar and I've had a guitar, but I play every day. I think I've played every day for 30 years. Oh, really? So, uh, 20 And how, when do you turn 50, by the way? October 24th. Huh. I'll be 50 on August 20th. Okay. We're just about the same age. We're just about the same age. You look way better than me. Right? Well, you've been playing music for 30 years. I'm haggard. I'm weathered. Um Yeah, so that's been my, um, it's been like, uh, like most people I had, you know, I raised kids, got married, um, had a job, um, played music on the side, was in bands, but in 2018, uh, formally left my career and became a musician full time. And it has, I've never looked back. It's been the best thing that I've, I've always known. I have always known in my gut that, um, Music is what I should be doing. It's just, you know, it's hard to, um, find that pathway often in the way our society is kind of built up, you know, it's just, it was probably way easier to be one of those guys, those bards that went around to taverns and stuff in the old English days, right? Like everybody needed one of those. That's what I want to do now, really. I just want to carry around a lute and just go to taverns. Salt road brewing. That's Probably a fair bit of your gigs, especially for your, cause you're a, sometimes you're a one man band. I sure am. Yeah. That's actually where the bread and butter. Right. Well, he doesn't have to pay a bunch of people. That's it. That's it. You know, it's funny being a, um, there's not that many of us in this town, actually, that are full, full time musicians. Most, most musicians, it's supplementary and they do it for fun and on the weekends. But, um, when I, When I went for it, I'd actually kind of, I actually went for it by, by accident. I, uh, I had left my job with, you know, I raised my kids and they were, um, now grown up and gone or going. And I just was realizing that I never really got to answer that question that I feel like I always, I was so jealous of people who knew what they wanted to do when they were young. Yeah. I mean, I took a job in a restaurant and I really enjoyed it. I opened up my own coffee shop, which we'll get into, um, moto house coffee, which was great. Um, but I never really, you know, I just was, I thought maybe if I took a year off, I could figure out what was next. You know, I, I knew I didn't want to go back to restaurants. I knew I was tired of what had you been doing immediately prior. Yeah. So I ran of 2018. Yeah. So, um, 2000 had my first kid. MROs and, uh, got a job with Brinker International, which is Chili's and all those restaurants, and they were great to me. I worked for them for six years as a manager, and they had actually offered me a general manager position if I moved to Um, Montrose, which, you know, it wasn't actually a pretty sweet, it's pretty sweet town back then. I did not want to go. So I was like, you know, I saw the cliff either hit the brakes or hit the gas. And I just was like, I hit the gas. They offered me the promotion. And then I just gave him my notice instead, which was pretty sweet. You know, it was good for me, and good for my family, um, and then my wife and I at the time, uh, decided to open Motohouse. Oh, way back then. So that was 05, yeah. That's how we got acquainted. That's how we met. Beginning with. Yeah, and then, so I did that for, till the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. Well, let's talk about Motohouse. Oh yeah, sure. Let's talk about this, like, you just got a wild hair. Yeah. Like, you're like, I guess I'm pretty good at running a restaurant. They keep giving me promotions or trying to have me move to Montrose, whatever. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that you, you, I was started off as a server and then they said, Hey, you should be a bartender. And then I moved to Colorado. This was in Texas. Believe it or not, I had a nine month stint in south of Houston, Texas. Oh, that's pretty hot down there. I reckon not for me. And so, um, came back to Colorado. And got a job at the Fort Collins Chili's as a manager and then they moved me to Longmont and I just am, I mean, I feel like in my life, um, do it well or, or don't do it. I just have always, I think I show up. Yeah. My, my parents were always that way. They're self made. They raised four kids like. I've never ever been good at just doing the minimum. It's just not in me. And so, um, yeah, they just kept giving me promotions by the end. I mean, I had a master's degree in small business management. I mean, I, I could run the ins and outs, responsibilities and all that. And so basically I just was like, I think I can open my own coffee shop. I think I can be done. And so I wrote a business plan. I wrote, um, high, middle, and low projections. I did the whole thing. It was months and months and months. Borrowed some money from the bank. Yep, I submitted it. That is a crazy story too, actually. Well, we, I got to get into that cause that's nuts. Let's do it. So, um, yeah, I got the loan. Um, we found a location. And you know, it was, it's rough as anybody knows in a small business, you don't make a ton. Your low projections weren't as low as they could have been. I should have gone low. I should have gone low. So many things you don't even realize, like, oh, what happens when they put a no left turn. Right. I mean, you just lost half your traffic. It's like, wow, you don't, they don't teach you. I mean, they probably do teach you that in the class, but not at Chili's restaurant. So that wasn't a no left turn and then they made it a no left turn? no left turn. No doubt. And so this is the space that's now Ace's Motorcycle? No, this is farther. This is all the way down. It's the one thing that will always make it, which is a weed shop. It's called, it's called N. A. something, but yeah, it's, it's become a weed shop and it'll do great. Right, right. Very visible there. They'll just. Do the internet. Come back. Right. Nobody cares. Yeah, there's another coffee shop coming right up, but there might not be a weed shop on the right hand side. I think there's one across the street, but it still doesn't matter. It's Colorado. Um, yeah, so it was great. We ran it and, uh, and had, we made so much community. I had never, it was really cool. I had never built, I had never been a part of building some sort of community like that. And it was so rewarding. I mean, I, some of my very best friends. Are still right. I met in 2005 right I mean it was just such a great it was such a great place as you remember the bike nights and the Spring and fall parties and I mean guys would just come in there and they would hang out Yeah for hours and hours and hours now, was it? Intentionally like a motorcycle friendly place? Was it because it didn't have parking very good or was it just because that was your hobby or combination of factors? Yeah, we picked the location, um, not wisely. Um, they did feed us a little bit of yarn about the South College project. And it was supposed to be this new growth spot and all right, it never, I mean, it still has never come nothing. Nothing lasts. I just noticed there was like the South Fort Collins business development district and it just never came. Yeah. I just noticed the taco stop is gone. You know, nothing lasts down there. They went, they went to, uh, they moved to the garlic nuts. So they're closer right over here at Loma, but the sprouts. Yeah. Yeah. We got rise right there. Plus, uh, that's become a hot corner, a little Collins for good, good food anyway. Yeah. Um, so, so you fought that uphill battle for a while. So we did the thing, um, the motorcycle theme came from, um, I mean, I've always been a motorcycle, so I bought my first bike when I was 16, I was working at a Chevron and bought a old Yamaha from one of the mechanics. And I. I mean, I was in heaven the second I got on it. And so, yeah, so I've never, I've never looked back with that either. I've had many, many, many, many motorcycles, but my father in law at the time had done a one year stint in Europe and he was just regaling us with stories of this. It's community motorcycle community. There is so different than I had believed here. Like, I knew, you know, about the whole, there was like the whole ride your bike to the bar on your Harley and do that community. But over there, motorcycling is way more of a way of life than it is a hobby. And so there are, it's almost a community like, Hey, we have a lot of motorcycle focused coffee houses because motorcyclists don't want to hang out with the cagers. Yeah. They just, or, or it's like, Hey, you know, refuel here and. Keep going or stop here. And so it was just, he was telling us stories about he and his buddies on their beamers would go and they'd meet up and, and then they ride to, you know, a hundred miles of this next town. There was another cool coffee shop, a thing, or a bit, you know, it was like this, whatever the whole moto house, which is spelled M O T O H a U S like a European spelling was my idea of. What that could be like here, basically. And so, um, it was a full functioning coffee shop for everybody. I mean, I had tons of other people who would come in who were just locals. And then, um, the motorcycle thing just, you know, just was what I really wanted to massage and it grew and grew until there was a hundred bikes there on a Thursday, every Thursday, guys were coming from Wyoming and coming up from Denver and coming up from Longmont. It was the only thing I was so far ahead of its time. Now. There's actually another place called Moto House. Oh, there is? Yeah, somebody used the name. I must have lost my way. Well, we're good, I guess. Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm a trendsetter. Well, you know, we'd said in banking, uh, the scouts get the arrows, but, but thanks for building that. It was a cool thing. How many years did you run it? Uh, Freddie May, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac was 08, 09. Okay. That's what killed it. That killed it off. Yeah. I'll never forget the front page or maybe not front page, but the front page of the business section on USA today, during that time when everybody Losing their homes and losing their I mean there was so much fraudulent. We're loaning going on Which I will get back to because my loan I'm gonna tell you about yeah, so I went from, you know, eight or 900, 000 bucks a day down to a hundred. Oh, the article, the article, it was like top 10 things to save money or whatever. They said, cut out coffee. And number one, it was like, I couldn't believe it. It was like, get rid of your morning latte. I was like, dude, what about cut out big Macs? What about cut out dip into that 50 a week? I know. So no, so they, it just. All across the board, lots of independent coffee shops went out at that time. Yeah. Cause you know, Starbucks was putting pressure on every well, probably 19 Starbucks in this town. I mean, there's a lot of independent still, but you know, yeah, just pretty good, but Compared to a lot of towns where Starbucks is half the business, you know, here we're doing a little better. Yeah, yeah, there's just, seems to be enough coffee shops or like breweries around here. You just, you build it and people will come. But it was fine, I mean, it just, it went the way it went. My landlords were unable to work. Accommodate you. No, there was none of that. It was just like, no, you owe me this. And so, at some point I just locked the doors and moved everything out. Left a note on the, I mean, literally left a note on the document. I was like, sorry. Adios. I didn't, I didn't ask for people to write fraudulent loans. Which is funny because the guys above me were. Mortgage broker. A mortgage broker. Yeah. They were the ones, so I didn't feel that bad. you could pay the rent. Yeah. Uh, so did you, uh, I, we kind of drifted away from music as a career here a little bit, but so did you go back into the restaurant industry then after your entrepreneurial sector? So much. Like, I much like, uh, my time at, with Chili's, my roasters at the time were coat of coffee. Oh. They were roasting and they were like, we love the way you run business. We love the way you. We want you to come down and we want to start a retail division and we want you to operate it. Which was fabulous and flattering. Yeah. And I was totally in. Yeah. There was one little thing in between, but it's irrelevant. Um, so I got on board with Coda and worked for them for 10 years. Oh, really? And it was fabulous. You know, they were really, um, right after, right after. And where is this at? Denver. It is. Okay. Yeah, right. You hustled that? It's a lot of commuting. Did you ride the bus thing? I did. You did? I waited and waited and waited for the bus thing. Waited and waited. That thing, if you gotta go to the right place in Denver, if you're going to downtown Denver, the bus thing is sweet. It was great. Yeah, I would pedal from my house. Catch it at Harmony, put my bike on the front, he would drop me off at Union Station, I would bike the, pedal the bike path up to Commerce City where Koda was, and they had a car I could use to go to run all my shops and run around, and then I would leave it and pedal back down. It was great. I mean, it added for a full day, but yeah, they were, they were super kind to me. They knew I had gone through divorce, not after the close of Motel House, and so being a single parent and they were really kind. Tom and Tim Thwaites, they were just, and their parents owned it, and they were. I loved working for them. It was fabulous and I would have stayed Um, it just my kids grew up And then I didn't need to have so much flexibility and I just was I was just tired of the kind of board Yeah, it's just a long time 10 years On something that was great and it wasn't really growing anymore And so well you were playing music that whole time I was playing in a band called thunk. Yeah for 16 years. Oh, yeah Yeah, which was great. That was a super fun band uh So actually at the, when I left Coda, um, I took a job just at a local place for one year, and that's when I was like, all right, now I'm just flailing. I'm just going to take a year off and figure out what I should be doing with my life. And actually I played an open mic like everybody does, which is nerve wracking. It's the worst thing you can do to yourself. I mean, it is terrifying to sit there with a guitar and sing and play your own songs. Yeah. I played two of mine and one. Of the cover and I just remember thinking I was gonna puke on the way to the mic. It's just What was the cover? Oh golly, I can't even remember. I wouldn't remember. I played it at at spotlight They used to have an open they're gone a long time. Yeah How long ago it was do you were you the lead man with thunk? No, I was a side man Okay. Yeah, which was great because that's i've always been really comfortable in that role I sing really well and harmonize really well. Yeah, um, and I love to play guitar. My heroes are jerry garcia and Dwayne Allman. I love to take big solos. So it was great for me, but I had never actually, actually the very first Foco MX. You know what that is? So Foco MX number one. Okay. I signed up Thunk and then two of the guys couldn't do it. And I wanted to do it. I really wanted to be a part of this music community because I was playing in Longmont in Boulder County a bunch. And so, that was the first time I led a band. Ever. Oh. And I actually, I did great and I loved it, but then I did not do it again for a very long time. And so, yeah, so playing out, I just played an open mic and then I booked my first solo gig, which was out at, um, in Windsor somewhere. I can't remember the name of the place, but that was the first time. Okay. And I got done and the guy was like, Hey, man, you're really good. Let me go get my calendar. Let's get you back in here. And so I played some more and then I booked another place and same thing happened. I booked another place and all of a sudden, I mean, what you're trying to be on sabbatical. And I was like, this is great. And when you play solo, well, in the beginning, you, you just take gigs, you know, right. Which is a really funny thing that I'd love to get into the, it's a common argument about how much musicians should be paid. I have my own Theory on it, but so at the time I just was saying yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, and I think I played 119 times And it was fabulous in a year. Yeah On the year I was taking off. What was your sudden? How was your average? My take yeah. Yeah, so did you start almost free, you know 50 but ever free never free I think my set right away 100 bucks was like that's the kind of the going average. Yeah And then, um, but tips are great. Right. If you go to the brewery, you bet. If you're good, people stay, they tip you. So I was bringing home. Two to three hundred. Yeah. And plus the brewery is super happy because people stayed an hour and a half longer than they might have otherwise. And if you play restaurants, if you play these places, oftentimes you get fed, you get, you know, so I felt like I was going out all the time. Like I was, this first year was like magic. Right. And you're newly kind of empty nested too, right? You're kids. You're like, I'm like a man on vacation. Fully, fully raging. Get to play music. Yeah. So all day I would go mountain biking. I'd go paddle boarding on the reservoir. All right. You know, do some housework around, write some music and then go to a gig. And I was like, this is work. Like, this is what it is. I can't believe it. I've always heard people say when you're doing what you love, it doesn't feel like work, but this is the first time I'd ever really had accomplished that, that goal. So, yeah. So I kind of bumped into this thing and, um, and I had never really been a guy that, like I sang a couple of songs and thunk and I harmonized, but all of a sudden I was. Learning to sing and learning about my range and getting better on the guitar and I bought a loop pedal Okay, and I learned to loop and oh like keller williams does with his stuff Yeah, so I can create my own shows like sure it was really fun and it has always been fun ever since that and so Really that has been my you know Small business, your primary revenue driver is mostly the solo stuff, but occasionally bands need to fill in. Yeah. Well, then I started the Max Mackey band. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, I started, I just also, then I just decided that I wanted to. I thought that existed. Yeah. Yeah, it exists. But it's, it's more for if somebody wants a more complete experience of sorts, or is it a whole different genre? That came out of it. But when I first started it, again, like I, I think I'm, um, I am a. I'm a big Jerry Garcia guy, I've always been a Deadhead, and one of the things that I, I loved was a joint? No. Okay. I always keep them handy in case people want to. Oh, I do see it. Yeah, yeah. Um, uh, you know, one of the things that I used to love when I would play the Dead, a ton of people would be like, God, can you just play something else besides the Dead? I would just play Jerry Garcia. Which is, you know, not on purpose, but So I always loved his take on that. His take, you know, the Dead was the Dead. But when he got to go play with the Jerry Garcia band, he could do whatever he wanted. Covers, fun, just having fun with great people. And so I really modeled the Max Mackey band after that. I've always wanted to play these Bob Dylan songs. I'd wanted to play these JJ Gray songs. I'd always want, I thought I could do a good job on them. And so that's how the original Max Mackey band, that one is dissolved and it's a new version now, but the first couple of years that was the band. It was great. I had a great time. And then. I would find myself like, well, this is too big for a solo and not big enough for the band, but hey, would the, you know, Dwight was the drummer and Scott was the bass player. I was like, you guys want to try a trio here? Right, right. Which was terrifying. Then we were the Max Mackey Trio. Right, then it was the Max Mackey Trio. It's funny, if you Google Max Mackey or YouTube Max Mackey. Band or trio. It's so funny to go back and look at so many variations of who I have played with. The quartet. Back when Red Truck was open, there's a video of me playing with Darren Raddick on the drums and Vinny LaCursi on the bass. When 5030 Local, which is Brooklyn Brewing, they used to have music and I played with Jim Fricker on the bass and Dwight Mohlbrad on the drums and Just, it's really interesting. Like how many, and now I've played with Taylor Tesler and Darren Raddick and AJ Knight, and it's just all these people. But once you, oops, once you start to, um, speak the language, right. It's really not as difficult. You can plug and play relatively easily if you're in the same kind of genre. And I just don't, I don't panic anymore. Like I've been doing it for so long now. Like for me, the challenge is. Playing with somebody new. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. And so, um, yeah, it just it has it has manifested itself or morphed Into me being able to be a very busy as busy as I want to be. Yeah musician And so it's been really great. It has been a treat and it has been such a joy And I've got to bring my kids along with me. Yeah, I played in a big country band called mad cow posse for a long time Okay, it's a big Weld County band. All right, and they grew they got to go To so much cool stuff when they were little right we got to play with bands like molly hatchet and john michael montgomery and And just all these great we were big country bands So we opened for all these guys and we played right after keith urban one time. It was great You know, they got to just be along for that ride, which, which has been really fun for them. How many local, if you had a pen and paper and an hour, how many local musician names could you write down that, that, you know, or you could text them? Oh yeah. Dozens. Yeah. Dozens and dozens. Yeah. This is a really neat, I'm actually so glad you asked that question. This is, you know, the, one of the first guys that I met, his name is Brian Johansson. He plays in the, in front of band called the sugar britches. Yeah, yeah, I've seen them he um, he and I like randomly I don't know. We just struck it off on this really neat friendship, but over Being a supportive community like I remember one time. I think he posted he was like, hey sugar bridges aren't playing this weekend but go check out max mackey and this and that and I was like cool, what a great what and so I just I'm like i'm i'm just gonna pay that back. And so It has been on and on and on this Great community and we often like play together. Like I just sat in with joe schicke in the men of soul I played with brian johansson the other day. I played with the lyd dixon band like It is just the most non aggressive Right and I hear It's not always that way. I mean, I hear a lot of, it's like headhunting for gigs and undercutting, you know? We just don't see here. No, not or here, but like in Boulder or whatever. Yeah. Or LA or New York, like yeah, places. I'm not going to those places, but I hear that it could be that way. But Fort Collins and also. Maybe we're just a little bit jaded here because there are so many places to play. Oh, it's so cool. It's unreal. I mean, people don't realize that. When you mention Red Truck, have you been over to Sweetwater lately? Yeah, yeah. Seems like you'd be good for that crowd. Yeah, I played there. I played there a few times. Jill and I, uh, have taken a habit of, uh, Tuesday afternoon, um, Trivia. Oh, great. Yeah. Yeah, which they don't have music there for that. But, uh, I think they're Wednesdays and Saturdays, I think, um, but anyway, hi, but that's a pretty cool set up there. I've been there for a couple of open mics as well. Yep. And, uh, yeah, I mean, that's just one, one example of 40 breweries in this town that want music two or three days a week. Right. It's remarkable, you know, and then for me, you know, this is, again, this is not my first year doing this anymore. So I have, yeah. I've become a bit more just bratty and selective on the places that I want to play and you don't play for a hundred bucks anymore, a hundred bucks. Yeah, no, that's that those, you know, I'm, I cut my teeth on that stuff. I did, I walked the walk, but, um, I don't have to do that anymore. Thankfully that's, that's the way you want in any business, you know, it's actually one of the things I mentioned before, there's the common, dialogue between musicians and venues on what it is they pay and who, who, you know, cause we, you see people like if you play for a hundred dollars, You're a fucking can I say that? Yeah, you're fucking every over everybody blah blah. Everybody should get paid more and i'm like well Not really. Yeah, I feel like Yeah, it's like that's my right. I'm a human being I can say I'll play that for 100 bucks if I want That's it. Take it if you want to if you don't want to but it's like if I suck They have the right to say never come back if you get your you get your electrician's License your first job. You're not asking for 150 000. Right you start And you start and you gain experience and you get better, hopefully, and then you ask for more. I mean, it's just the same in my, in my opinion, you follow that same trajectory. So the argument is moot. The dialogue is moot. It's like, if there's a place that does not care about the talent and all they want is their budget to be met at 75, there's plenty of people who would, you know, they already work five days a week. They'd love to get out and play. They don't really care about the money. They're just having a blast. And if that place doesn't care, Then you got to have those places and there's places that say, well, we really want this type. And so then you can ask, say, well, I can do that, but I need to get paid this and on and on. And so, you know, so on and so forth. That argument, um, is one I've, I've heard and listened to and stuff, but I don't think it's actually as delicate as everybody thinks. It's just part of being a musician, like any business. So back in the day when I first left banking to try to start a restaurant and I ended up with a, with a food trailer. Yeah, I remember those days. And I actually tried to pull together like a food truckers association. Yeah. Because I was almost, like, they had all these food trucks that were, they would cater a party, or they would bring their food trailer to a party of a known quantity or whatever, and they would just sell their stuff for 12 a plate, just like they did at the brewery. And I was like, dudes, caterers get paid 25 per meal. Plus a head and we can deliver that kind of quality, but we've got to start asking for it. Yeah. Cause I was out there asking for that price. You had a burger cart, right? Yeah. Burgers and sliders and tacos and stuff. Yeah. Bear's backyard grill umbrellas. Did you ever have our, uh, the bacon ate her sandwich? I don't know what I have, but I came to your cart a few times. Good. Good. Yeah. We played music shows. We always fed the band for free at Paddler's Pub. Well, that's actually in that. Oh, geez. And that's where I think I. That's where I, it could've been. Maybe we were with Thunk one of those times, I think then Yeah, probably It wouldn't have surprised me. What years were those? Uh, 2014. 2015. That was thunk. Yeah. Yeah. We came up to paddlers, but we, I remember, yeah, we, we played a few local gigs up here. Oh, I have, uh, two questions. Yeah. Yeah. Um, one is, uh, do you mind if I smoke? Okay. I won't bother you. Okay. No, it doesn't, um, start talking about Jerry Garcia and bands like Got Me the Mood. I was born and raised in Alaska, man, national Pastime. So, um. The other question I have is, how would you describe to listeners, like, what's the solo Max Mackey experience? What's, uh, what, there's probably a range of experience even available as far as genres. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna have a gravelly voice, I know that. Yeah. Um, I think when, um, one of the things that I think people often comment or give me this, um, Just feedback or whatever. Yeah, um, they often just say it's like it's very organic. Okay, it's very organic What because my shows I loop and I solo different every time it's different always different. I don't memorize things ever I have the basis of the song and then I just really enjoy I want to enjoy myself as well Like I do want to put on a good show, but selfishly I've waited a long time for this. It's almost like jazz ish. Sure, you bet. You bet. 100%. So yeah, when I play solo, um, it's very stripped down. It's just me, an acoustic, and then a loop pedal. And so, um, and it's just always going to be new and different. So, I think on that level, Um, it's, it appeals to just everybody. I mean, there are 25 year olds that are just, you know, I played over at Salt Road and this young couple was like, Oh my God, this is the best. We have not seen music in this town. It was so nice. Very nice. Complimentary. And then I've had, I have older couples in their sixties. Who love when I play Van Morrison or I do into the mystic or I do and I often um Mishmash my own in there and it gets lots of good feedback. It's also very accessible music I'm not trying to write things that are so avant garde. So, you know, my friend Darren gave me a nice compliment one time He was like, he has like your stuff just sounds like stuff that I would like. He was the drummer I play with you know, he's just I I write it very openly and it's for it's for the masses. I Shared this on a Gosh, I wonder who it was with. A podcast a while back, uh, that at least two, three dozen songs, like the chorus and some verses, uh, have washed down the shower with my shampoo. Yeah. Uh, cause I, I'm kind of a, I've written a number of poems and I write things and I've, I've definitely come up with like spontaneous song lyrics. And then they just go away. I know. And I feel bad about them. You, this is the best thing. I mean, along with the calendar, voice, I have a voice recorder. It is full, full of ideas. I would often be like two 30 in the morning. I'll have to get up to go pee or something. And then I just hear this and I just grabbed my phone and I sing it into the phone and then I put it away. And so when I'm ready for the next album, which I'm working on now, I can go through and like, I love that idea. I love this idea. I love this idea. And I have all these great starts that I just get to now expand upon. I love it. Yeah, it's great. It's great because, for me, music writing is, is, it's, it's an effort. Like, I have to put aside two hours. I go in there. It's not trying to burst out of you. No, I've never. It's more like Hemingway where you gotta make yourself write 500 words a day. That's it. I've not, I've never had divine inspiration on things. I just. Usually honestly what I do is, um, smoke some weed at night and I get my loop pedal out and I will find something that's really awesome and I'll loop it. Yeah. And then all the words will just come with the timbre of the song. And it's been, it's how I've always written. I've never written words first ever. Yeah. I can't imagine. Starting with me. Although I could actually, if, if I had just had a nice loop, I suspect you're right, I suspect I would start to come up with some words that would kind of go along with the flow. It's, it's great. Actually. It's a great way to write. And I don't want to sound braggadocious with my listeners out there. I'm not a songwriter by any means, but I've got kind of some of those instincts. And I think a lot more people do than they, than they realize. It's like, it's such a great outlet, you know, um, writing words. My girlfriend has always says like words matter. Yeah. Words matter. Writing is thinking is what, uh, Reno Caesar told me that years ago, the founder of the egg and I. Okay. Uh, he was like, you know, writing is thinking. And by the way you write, I can tell you think about a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a nice snapshot of where you are at that time. Which is one of the things that I'm learning now. I'm finishing my first full length album. Yeah, I was gonna ask about that. Yeah, and so, um, I have this, I can nitpick things, as I'm sure anybody can when they are looking at themselves. Yeah, yeah. You're your own worst critic, and so, one of the things you just have to remember is, that's just where you were then. It's where you are at that time. When you wrote that song. Yeah, my guitar playing was where it was. My singing was where it was. And you just have to let it be. You know, if you want to have a long career, You can't just not everything can be your magnum opus, you know, it's like it's just they are I mean if you listen to any long time musical act like tom petty or john mayer or You know that they evolve they evolve man. You evolve people like oh, I don't like him. He became a prick It's like well god. He's he's 30 years he's been writing albums or metallica. They're like metallica got soft. I'm like, didn't they just get old? Come on, dude They're old. They're like 60 They can't just be 22 year old punks Forever like you just have to let life be you have to and you get older you get wiser you have new things to say and you know, one thing I really like is the The Hootie the Blowfish guy turning into a country singer? And it just kind of fits in. Darius Rucker. Yeah, yeah, I think it kind of, it's better for him. Well, somebody else just did that, uh, who's the guy with all the tats all over his face? I don't know. Oh yeah, you do. Uh, he's like, I thought he was a big rapper. Oh, he just came out with a country song, yeah. He plays with everybody now. Oh, what's his Yes, I know who you're talking about. He's on the Grand Ole Opry! I was like, what is this happening right now? It's so funny. What, uh, do you have a, uh, well, I want to hear more about the album too, but do you have like a favorite song? Uh, that you've created? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hello, Virginia is my hello, Virginia. Hello, Virginia. And tell me about yeah Was that the same thing you were looping some stuff loop made a great. It's a great It's that wasn't inspired by a trip to Virginia or no bullshit like that. You know, it's funny It's one of the questions I get a lot is like who's who's Virginia who's Virginia, but really Virginia is just anybody. That's a song about, um, redemption and growth and strife. I write a lot of, I mean, I, same way I live my life. I just, I'm a real pull up your bootstraps kind of guy. Like I'm not, I'm not a victim. I don't whine. I just, you just do, do life the best you can. And so that's all, a lot of the songs on the album are in that vein. I wrote a lot of very, during the pandemic and it was a lot of just like. That's what this was. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, can you, can you lead us in? Well, I should have brought a guitar, right? I didn't even think about it. I'll just put my air guitar. Do do do do do do do do do. I'll just play you, I'll play you the song sometime. Okay. I have it on my phone, but you don't have to. Uh, the album will be done and then you'll get to hear it. If we had, if I had a Jamie, we could have him pull up to YouTube and show the listeners video of it and stuff. Yeah, Um, it's just a great song. There's a lot of great songs on the album. I'm really happy with it. I, it's not really what you're supposed to do anymore. That was your first album? This is my first full length. Oh, but is Hello Virginia on there too then? Yeah, Hello Virginia's on it. And it's fat. It is so good. Okay. It's really great. And when's that coming out? Soon. I'm on the final revisions. Okay. I've got a great Um, I restarted it in 2019. do you use a local studio? So, this is a question. Any shout outs? Use Ford local studio? Yeah, well, uh, hilariously, I started this in 2019. And as you know, that's the one year before a global pandemic. Yeah, I heard about it. So, I recommend you don't do that. So I started this, I was recording in Brisbane, California at a place called Lucky Studios. And, uh, a couple of great engineers there. And we tracked and tracked and tracked and tracked. And then I'll never forget. I was supposed to go back and I was just talking to my, my gal friend. And we were like, God, you see this? They're like closing down France. They're closing down. And then I called those guys and I was like, I don't think canceled their season. I don't think I should come out. And they were like, Oh, you got, we got a schedule to keep. And then literally the next day, SFO closed. Right. If I would've gone, I'd never would've got, I'd have been walking home, you know, or renting a car. So that put a big, that put a big damper on it. Yeah, and then I did get back out for like a couple of sessions I think Um, and then I got hit by a car as we can get into that story But so the album has been long time coming now, it's five years later And so i'm just really ready for it to be done. I'm ready to move on from these songs and Is the, is the gonna get hit by a car gonna be your loco experience story at the end? Oh, we can talk about it whenever. I think we should just talk about it now, unless that's your craziest story. You know, you got other crazy stories too. Yeah, I mean, that was just, um. So, so you're, so you're what, are you like 40 percent of the way through laying down the tracks of recording this new album? You're, you're, you're growing by the minute. You're trying to make it big kind of thing. I was really, I was like this. I'd put, I really was going for it. I mean, I had just gotten, I mean, some of this stuff sounds a little silly, but I had gotten a, I can't remember what they call anymore, but they talk about your image. Yeah. They got an image coach. Yeah. Not, or I can't miss that. It's a better word than that. That sounds really douchey, but it was, uh, it was all, I mean, I was ready. I was like, how do I do this? How do I, how do I make this work? Um, I was, yeah, I was full, full in, full in, and then, um, yeah, I was riding home one evening. I was actually about to play, I'll never forget this, because Oh, you were on your way to a gig. I was on my way home from a motorcycle event. Oh, okay. And I was, it was two days before I had What were you riding? I was on my old Dynam Harley. Okay. Great motorcycle, too. Yeah. It was a great bike. One of my favorites. Um, but I had been, I had been following this band called Peak to Peak, Okay, and they were a local grateful dead tribute band and they had this monster guitar player in that band called matlin and being Uh being a guitar player. I just was instantly attracted to I was like, holy moly. This this is legit This guy's a beast. Yeah, and so But he was a very busy guy Yeah, and I had like I had been lingering around hoping that they might ask me to fill in sometimes Right, but I was way down the list. I'm like number six, right? So right. Well, they had said yes You And I was supposed to play with them on this big giant stage down in Longmont. Okay. I had worked and worked and worked to learn all this Grateful Dead music. And that was going to be August 1st. On July 30th, I was riding home and this guy on his phone turned left in front of me and Stuck his bumper through my leg at 30 miles an hour. I missed my opportunity. I was so sad. Like, tell me, tell me about that. If you're, I imagine you have like a videotape of that moment. Yeah. I'll never forget. I never was out. I'll never, I missed a, I missed a fond ear, uh, going about 70 miles an hour by by 30 inches. Yeah. I mean, life just happens all the time. I mean, life just happens. Whether you are a mountain biker, I had a buddy. I'm on his bicycle. Yeah, who hit a rock or he actually doesn't even really know it like 40 miles an hour coming down hill wiped and yeah It's spent months in the hospital brain day You know, it's like it just happens if you if you if you live your life You just have to mitigate the risk and that's just the deal You know, I'm gonna always come to the were you speeding or you know, it's 55 60 miles an hour I was going up Taft Hill now the place where I got hit There's a light who sucks because there would have been a light this dumb kid would never have been Oh, so he just, like, you just didn't, you got a single headlight, he didn't see your single headlight. Dude, there was six of us. Oh, shit. Yeah, six of us. The kid is just so dumb. I mean, just dumb, just dumb and unlucky. Distracted. He's a 30 year old kid. Well, get off your phone when you're turning at least. I mean, serious. So, I was going north on Taft Hill. Okay. He was sitting in the turn lane to go left on Trilby. And we were just all coming like you do all day. Like you've done for 20 years. Yeah. And right as we were getting, he just went. He just went. I couldn't, I remember thinking to myself. Why did you do that? And then he looked up and tried to turn to get out of the way. Right. And my knee caught his bumper. My left knee caught his bumper. It was brutal. It just exploded. It just exploded. I can see your scars. Yeah. So that's actually, this right here is actually my thigh. I'll tell you a bit about that too. So I go blasting, you know, over, end, over, end, over, end, like you do. You see land down in the ditch. I'm just laying there like totally panicked. Did he hit anybody else? Well, so one of my buddies, you know what a low side versus high side is? Yeah. Yeah. So for those of you who don't motorcycle, if you slide and your bike just slides out from underneath you, that's called the low side. But if you sometimes you can get your back tire to squirrel and then it catches and it can fling you literally fling you So my buddy Joey low sided and skidded skidded out kind of and then my buddy Dan High sided bumped him and he came down on his head and got a gnarly concussion. Oh, but we all wear helmets We're all that kind of writer. So right Riding far enough apart from each other and yeah, just enough just but it was just again. We were all right. We were in the intersection Anytime so crazy is crazy. It's just so avoidable so avoidable, right? He says he says he didn't he was uh, he's an exchange student. I want him and we don't get too much debt But yeah, he says he thought he had the weed Thought we were turning and we had the right of way. It was all BS, It was just all bs. We were going straight on a straight road, dude. I know. It was really tough. Oh, wild. Yeah. So you, so anyway, yeah. So, so you're in the hos or Yeah. So you're, so, yeah, so I'm on the side of the road. Yeah. Basically like, you know, I'd never experienced anything like this and, and, uh, this guy comes running across the street who was going south. Help me work. You know, it's like I just I wasn't sure if I was dying. I didn't know it was my spine sticking out. So he looked me over. He was like, man, I think you're gonna be okay, dude. He's like, but don't look at it. It's gnarly. So, you know, once I realized I wasn't gonna die. No, it's fine. I laugh as a nervous response. Not because I think it's funny. When I tell the story, it's kind of funny because he was really a great guy. Right? He, um, Yeah, he came running over and was like, Hey, I got some military training. I'm going to sit with you. Okay. We already called the ambulance. My wife is in the car. And so I just, I didn't know what else to say, but I asked him, I was like, Am I dying? If you can tell me that if you got some training and he like looked me over, he was like, I don't think so, bro, but don't look at it because my leg was just, it was just disintegrate. There's nothing left here. It is flopped everywhere. You got pretty full used back. Or can you run? Can you, no, I'll never do those in my ski days. My running days. Um, uh, my doctor that did the knee replacement though. He was great. I'll give a shout out to him. And Kirk, Kirk Kinsfodder, he saved it. I mean, he, he doesn't know, he doesn't realize, but you know, I just told you about my life, right? It was, it was on the a game. I was raging. I was developing this life. I had waited for everything. I mean, it was just really was, and I felt robbed. I mean, I really felt robbed. I mean, it's easy for me to live with gratitude and realize people have it worse than me. And I don't try to compare. But I felt I was robbed, and it was hard for me, and I don't deal with like depression very well, I don't really experience it. For me, most of the bad things that have happened to me in my life have been my own damn fault. Right, this was just super unfair, and I'm like, I'm a dad, like I raised my kids reminding them life is not fair. Right. You know, and so I just was like, this is not fair, I have all, the bills all went to me. Everything. It's such a skewed system. Actually. Really? Did he have insurance on this car? He had the state minimum. You're allowed to ride, drive around with 25, 000. That's here's my recommendation for any listener get under insured motorist on your end because the state, nobody has it anymore. 25, 000. He had 50 so I took 25 and he split the other 25 between the other two guys. Wow. And it was like that. Here you go. Which did nothing. I mean, it just does nothing. Two days in the hospital, you're 25, 000. Yeah. My total bills were over 900, 000. So did you have to go bankrupt for that? I did not. The state of Colorado jumped in with the thing called Medicaid and really, really did, did, did a fabulous job, which is what everybody should have anyway. I mean, we don't need to get into the politics of insurance, but it's what everybody, it's what everybody ought to have. Everybody's entitled. Some kind of a safety net. I mean, it was just BS. I remember talking to the judge, the judge even was like, this sucks. I mean, she gave him a 600 and a 250 fine failure to yield and reckless driving or misuse of the lane. And that's all she's allowed to give him. Oh my God. And I'm sitting there. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? I mean, freak. Yeah. So. Not homicide. Yeah, you know, you can kill somebody with a car. Hell, you should kill him and it's like it's an accident, right? Unless you're doing it on purpose or he's drinking, right? I guess so, huh? So phones don't phones don't fall in that category while drinking and drugs, right? He'd be done for Yeah, I feel like But you can Phones are the ones you look around I'm probably a lot more dangerous when I'm fucking around on my phone than if I've had two beers. All the Absolutely, you are. I know. It'd be so easy, I feel like, if any phone company just put a thing that when the phone's going over five miles an hour Right. It shuts off. Well, what about the passenger though? Fuck them. Well, but they want to play music on the thing. Maybe some apps work, right? But no texting, no phones. Like, I don't know. I don't know. There's, I feel like there's a way around it anyway. I'll probably be the advocate for that for the rest of my life. But anyway, well do, I mean, that's, I mean, honestly, you're a real life case of distracted driving. So shame on you. Anybody that's out there listening that regularly text your daughter just real quick. Yeah. Don't just, just wait, just change, you know, pull off. Yeah, if it's that important, then pull over, but it's just not worth it. It's just not that worth it. You know, it could be somebody else's daughter that you kill. Well, and motorcyclists are especially vulnerable. They sure are. Um, Do you want to, Oh, we'll, we'll, we'll get back to motorcycles. We'll make that one of our categories again. Um, so you get derailed, right? Like, so you're, how many months? So let's go back to that. Yeah. So well, then COVID happened, right? So, well, COVID was before this is 2021. So COVID had just ended and I'm just restarting. Everybody's restarting and then everybody's restarting and max goes down for two years. Two full years. It was, it was two, two months in the hospital and then months and months and months and months at home in this fixator. And then, and then I got left with this leg, a totally useless leg at the time. I didn't know my not my doctor at the time was very negligent. I did not know you could have the original doctor. And I was just doing the thing he told me to do he's like that's your leg You better learn how to use it and I was going to physical therapy torturing myself All the time trying to get it on a bone that wasn't stable and it was totally rotting It was just grinding itself to pieces So finally, so finally I played a gig new year's I want to say it must have been 2023. Okay, and I was told my girlfriend I was like I I can't live this way. Yeah, I can't do it I mean I gave it the old college try but I either have to have somebody do something, or I just have to remove the leg. I can't live my life. It was so much pain. When you're in pain, I have a whole new Were you on opiates and stuff? I hate that stuff. I don't take it. They gave it to me. I still have tons of it, but I don't ever take it. I didn't like it. It makes you foggy and makes you Sometimes you gotta take it just to not experience the pain, but You couldn't live that way. No, you can't live that way. And people who live in pain Life is just very different than you and I, I mean, I have so much kudos and so much empathy for anybody because of the two years I had to deal with it. I was a very different. I was very different. You cannot find flow in your life. Every second, every step you are. I am shocked back with pain. So it was just, I did, I did the best I could. I tried to get music started again. Peak to peak. I'll get into that story. But, um, those two guitar players eventually moved. Okay. They did ask me to just give it a try to, can I, could I help revive this band in a different fashion? And I did it, but the whole time I'm dealing with this. I mean, those guys were so kind to me, man. They helped me carry my gear. It was very, very, very, people's really showed up for me in those two years. And finally, after that new year show, I made a couple of appointments with different doctors. I went to my amazing plastic surgeon. Yeah, what happened to your thigh here? So there was nothing left here. Oh, so they had to take some of that skin. It's called microvascular surgery. It was 16 hours under. So they cut out all the muscle, and he laid it across, and then he trims it to fit, and then he goes in with like a camera on a big iPad screen. So they move muscle from your thigh over to your knee. And he stitches one vessel at a time. Unbelievable. Is this the beginning or this is when you went back? That is my fourth surgery. Oh, this is in the beginning. So I went to that doctor and said, what can I do, man? I'm, I'm dying here. I can't, he was like, let me, let me, I worked with a doctor in Denver and let me get you, let me get you an appointment with him. Cause my doctor was, he's just not cutting it. He wasn't, he wasn't interested in helping me. Yeah. And so it was too hard. Yeah. It wasn't what he was doing. He didn't want to do it. And so, um, I go to Denver, but I also went to see. In, in the, in the defense of that bad doctor, he did finally at the end when I realized I was like, I need something else. He was like, I'm not doing it. But let me, let me refer you to this guy. I know that I think might do it. And so he referred me to Kirk Kinsfodder. Okay. And I went to the Denver guy, both at the same time. And the, the, it was awful. I mean, it was literally, it was everything I did not want to hear. The bone, the bone was on bone. It was grinding and it was creating its own, um, what's it called? When your body attacks itself, you know, what's it called? Immune response. Yeah. Um, autoimmune. Yeah. When the people like their body attacks itself. Oh, so basically every step there was bone grinding. And so my body was shooting protein and stuff. Yeah. It was so much that it was eating the bone away. Wow. I know. I was like, I was, and nobody, nobody knew. I'm here. I am going to physical therapy. Right. My doctor's telling me you got to work a little harder. Gotta keep working a little harder. The more harder you work, the more you grind yourself into a rotten pulp. So I go to this doctor and he says, I have to open you up. I got to cut away all the bone. I have to immobilize you again. I had already, I mean, they had been cranking on my knee for a year and a half of trying to get my range back, which was a horrifying pain, three days a week. So he tells me, I gotta mobilize you for two months, you're gonna lose all the range you got, then we're gonna open you back up again, take out these blocks that he was gonna put in there with antibiotics, and then potentially, if that worked, we're Then he would make a decision to either remove my leg or give me the fake knee if the, if it had gotten better. Whoa. Starting all over again. I just was horrified. So then I go up to Fort Collins. I'm up here at Kirkkin's Fodders. Okay. And he basically said, he's like, listen, that guy, he's not wrong. I, he pulled fluid out. He was like, you're, it's a mess in there. It was pretty nappy. Yeah. So he was like, so basically what I decided, which I'm so glad. That's like the one thing that I just got right. Was I went with Kirk Kinsfodder and I basically had to sign off on Potentially remove my leg Potentially add a new knee but very good chance that he was gonna have to do the block as well And I'll just start over. All right, but he was like You got to sign these Because I'm gonna bring the knee If it were if I think that it's not too polluted in there I'm gonna try and put it in if I think the bone will even take it But there was so much damage now and he had to cut away so much. So anyway, I go in, I go under, I know, right? I was pretty intense. I'd like to put my chair. So I, I, I wake up, they had called my head that I had my daughter on call because she had to make the final say. It was like, he called her and said, we're taking the knee off. She had, we had already been prepped for her to say, yeah, do what you think is best. You know, all that stuff. So I went under without really knowing what was going to happen except that the good chance he was saying, listen, like it would take a lot to remove your leg. Right. He was like, it's, I do have to, I do have to do it, but he was like, cause I can always do the block thing. And then you're just going to start that way. So while they were under, thank you. While they were under, Kurt's filling up my wine. That's why I said, thank you to all the people who can't see. Um, he just was like, listen, he and his aides were like, if we do this block, this guy's got five surgeries to go again, and that was already on number 11 and another starting over again. So he was like, let's just put the knee in because if it doesn't take Then we can cut it off. It's either way, it's like. So instead of doing the block thing and the way the antibiotics. Dude, so I freaking wake up and you have, everything in my life literally changed. You can just like move your knee. I cannot, I mean I cannot ever stress what I was talking about before about, about no flow in your life. Living in pain. Right. And waking up and having it, there's a video on Facebook of me on the day I woke up. They get, they get me up. And I am moving around and they were like, I was like, I'm ready to go. And they were like, you better just put the brakes here, chief. But they just had no idea that for so long, I had not walked. I had not, I could, I'd walked with a cane. I mean, it was just. It was just, I tried to explain. As you were trying to be a musician still, you're like walking around. Sitting down, I sat for most of the gigs. Right. And still then, your leg just, it was just awful. It never. Just cramping and painful. It was just terrible. Oh my god. I would move it. And just, and just, I would be like what's happening? Well I have to think the temptation was there to like, You know, if one glass of bourbon is good, three glasses of bourbon is, my knee doesn't hurt as much. Or whatever, or whatever you're, like, applaud you for not falling into that. Yeah, I think I was more of a Tylenol or Advil guy. Maybe, yeah, whatever. I did have these little five milligram oxys, that if I just took that and didn't touch anything else, it was mostly Pain sedative, but it's always messes with you, but don't mess with other things. No, I'd be a drooping mess I've never really gotten into the like Oxys and all any of that kind of stuff like even in when I was experimental in college I still yeah, I've never been a big I've never been just a big I like honestly, I just like being me Yeah, so another alternate version of me has never been there. Yeah, I was never a good weed smoker um You Anything that makes me weird and strange and not me, then I just never really, I never very much enjoy it. I do, I enjoy like, you know, a couple glasses of wine. Yeah. Or something. My, my neighbor and I had like way over half of a black box, like maybe three bottles of wine during a podcast a couple weeks ago. And it was pretty silly. Like we both called our wives and played ping pong afterwards. And they were like, you guys are so drunk. And it was like, yes, we are. That's good. I mean, sometimes it's fun to just like turn off the, the stop nozzle a little bit, you know? Well, when I asked him about being on the show, he was like, can we get drunk on wine? Yeah. I'm the worst. I'm like, I'm like the worst. I'm like, we walked home, you know, I'm, I'm the anti fun guitar player. Really? You know, I've never done the thing I've never done. I see guys who just like. You know all through the 70s. Those guys are just wasted or on sure. I mean, it's the wrong right and I just I can't do it I cannot do it. I can't I barely even drink That's probably why you have a good music career because you know, it's like the best coke dealer. Don't do a bunch of coke No, you know He's probably is exactly partners. Don't do a bunch of party So anyway, anyways, yeah get this so I get the new life I wake up with a new knee and literally a fucking new life I'm not even kidding you. It's just like I tried to explain that to him You Cause he just does this, right? He's just cranking out. I'll never be able to actually make him understand, like, the difference in the life that he gave me back, you know? And so, yeah, I went to rehab again. So, basically, it's like And when is this? Can you timeline me here? Yeah, this was one year ago, June. It just passed in one year with the new knee. Okay. So, basically, in my leg is like The bottom knuckle sits down like this and then there's the one on top of my tibia Yeah, and there's a big bearing in the middle and it rotates like this interesting and then the bottom plate shifts That's how I get movement. Cause this doesn't move. Oh, so you can rotate. So I can actually rotate. But there's bump stops in there. Nice. Which is wacky to feel it. You know, it'll never will ever feel like this knee. Right, right, right. But it. You're not going to play ultimate frisbee. I went freaking paddle boarding today with my kids. Right. First time this year is the first time. I love paddle boarding. I used to go five days a week. And this is the first time this year that I could stand up. Nice. I would try to go out there and flail with my bad leg and it was terrible. And so this year my daughter Sophia was like, is this is your first year standing up again? I was like, you bet. I'm never sitting down. Oh, what a, I mean, all of these first things, but, but what a fresh, Blessing on the world. Like every day is grateful after something like that, you dig into a new, you're ready for a handicap parking for the rest of your life. And you probably still have it right now, huh? I have, it expires actually get one more time. I know. I don't really need it. I'm definitely probably abusing it. It's nice. Well, but sometimes when there's six parking spots that are open up front and they're all open, like I think a libertarian should feel better. Like, they should be able to park it. Listen, I fuckin earned it. Right? Hell yeah you did. I earned it. I think I have it until September. I think so. September it's over, so. Do it for life. Yeah. Like, just keep, uh, lying on the form or whatever. I don't know, how do you have to prove that? Yeah. Well, even this, even today we got to the, we got to the, uh, paddle boarding spot. Yeah. And there was an open spot. But I didn't take it. I went and parked. But then, there was no more other parking and there was like six people just trying to find a place to park. So, I actually was like. I'm just gonna take the, I'm gonna go take it. Right. And I went and took it and then somebody else took my other spot, so. You know. And it does, often times. It fucking hurts still, man. It's never going to feel good. a five mile hike? I did go hiking with my girlfriend. Start with two miles. Yeah, we did down to the shore and back. Yeah. And it was okay, but then I instantly rolled my ankle because it doesn't, nothing works quite the same. Well, motion is lotion, I would say, uh, like. Motion is lotion, that's good. Yeah. It's good, it's a little lubricate, man. So, so walk and hike a lot. Mountain bike. Especially elevation and mountain bike, but. Yeah. Um, just in terms of building the, like we're walking machines, right? So that's the activity that really propels us through life. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, I mean. I mean, if you go mountain bike from a band gig to band gig, it's great, but if you could walk it and put your guitar in the next stage, it's better. My lute. Your lute. Yeah, so anyway, all that stuff now is, yeah, we're all in the past and I am. When did you start reworking the album again, then? Um. Just really so those guys the guys from the Who I was tracking out in California or whatever, they did not, the pandemic did not treat them. Well, they were one of them. Well, the whole music industry, it's just, yeah. And a lot of those guys are not do well with drinking and drugs. And, um, I could not get them to finish. I could not get them. I could not get them. I flew out there with a hard drive and just banged down the door and was like, give me my tracks. I paid for these tracks, give them to me. I'm out of here. And so one of the guys was there and said, yep, So I took them. I got a friend of mine who works in Nashville at a studio and I'm going to get it wrong, but I want to say it's called Addiction. Addiction Studio. If I say it wrong, sorry, Cam. But, um, he took it on and, you know, trying to finish somebody else's work. You know, there's 27 tracks on one song and he's trying to start over again and give me good mixes. And so he's been, you know, Really, really sweet and great and patient with me. And we have done many revisions and can you do this? Is this just, is this you solo? No, you have with a backup band with the max Mackie band. This is a full max. Is it with the current max Mackie band? Or is there, it's the drummer from the old lineup. My friend Vinny LaCurse on bass, me doing all the guitars and vocals. And then, um, I hired in a kid named Alex Jordan to come and play keys. And then, um, there's a guy, uh, He's kind of like a Bay Area legend, Eric McFadden. He knew, and he sat in on one song, which was great. He's a great guitar player. Um, but it's mostly just me. It's my songs. These are all hired, hired people to just, to do what I asked them to do. So, but it's a sick, I mean, the album is killer. It's like a full on like guitar players. Album. Wow. There's no shortage of like monster guitar solos and huge harmonies. And it's a really, well, I have to think that the, the, the lyrics are going to be They're good. They're great. I mean, it's a, I take, I mean, I, I reworked and took a lot of pride in, in this stuff. And I think it's going to be, I mean, it's going to be great. It's different now though. But all this stuff was laid down before your knee stuff. I know, right? Right? Like I got to think you got a lot of new content that's bubbling to the surface. Yeah. Not that you write about yourself really. I don't write about myself. I write about things and maybe it happened in my life, but I write them in a way. Like one song on there is called Eyes on the Road. And I wrote it. I was teaching my daughter Sophia to drive. And I was just having one of those moments where I was like, I'll never get to do this again. My older daughter was done. It's like if you don't stop and really think about things like that, it just becomes another thing you have to do, but these are important things. Oh god, she needs Sophie to drive. Oh my god, like I was like, it was actually challenging and enjoyable and I won't get to do it again. Like these are my kids and it just really made me stop and think and so the song is written. That it's called eyes on the road, but it is written for anybody who taught their kid to drive or spent time with their father or mother and it's like, you know, the eyes on the road, keep inside the lines. It's like, yes, it's physically literally about driving and it's In your life, you know, right there, be, be there, like, just go out and don't be on your phone when you're supposed to be driving a car. You know, there's a line. That's like, I watched the clothes get bigger out there on that line. It's like things like that, that they are for me as I wash their clothes. And then, then we would buy new clothes and they get bigger, but it's like, anybody can relate to that stuff. And so I try to make all my songs. Relatable. Yeah. So they're not they maybe they are for me, but they are for everybody. I've gotten more feedback on that songs and more tears on that song than anything I've ever written. Actually, the day I I'll never forget I we went downstairs into our studio with the old Max Mackey band and I was told him I was like, I wrote the song. It's pretty personal, but I'd like to just see what you guys think and the girl who was a singer in the band She was just like bawling I can't even get through this. I love it. It was great. It's like that's a sign of a good song, right? For sure So, um, that's on the album. That's a good one. What's the name of that one? Uh, eyes on the road and that's the, that's going to be the name of the album. Oh, right on. Yeah. Cause again, it's for me again, it's like, and here I am back and eyes on the road, get back at it again. Like it's, it's a, that's a, that line means multiple things in multiple variations and well, it doesn't mean. Don't turn left in front of a pack of motorcyclists. That's the cool thing. Like that song was already there and baked in. Keep your fucking eyes on the road. Almost prophetic. Right. I never even thought about it that way. No shit. Can I see it? It just seems like it's glaring at me. Can I see it to that kid? You son of a. Yeah, keep your eyes on the road. It's bad these days. It's real bad. Let's talk about motorcycles. Um, so how many motorcycles do you think you've owned in your lifetime? Over 50. Oh wow. I'm probably about. 25, 20, 25. Yeah. I've definitely slowed down. That's that R 75 I had for 10 years. That like, I had so many motorcycles looking for that one. That was our immediate bond is when you are an old Beamer guy, whether or not you have anything else in common, your friends, your buddies, because it's just like the, it's like having an old crappy Harley, you just are always have to deal with it, you know? And so, yeah, if you tolerate having a Puerto Rican wife, I'm just kidding. Can you say that out loud? I'm just, that was totally a joke. Octopus. I have nobody in mind. No, we're not going to call it octopus. It's just a joke. I know. But I suspected it probably is. Um, yeah. When you, you know, I've been an old beamer guy most of my adult life. I got my first one when I think I was 25. Cool. And I've never, I mean, I still have one. I always seem to have an old beamer. Yeah. Yeah. And I have newer beamers. I've got a, I've got an R1100. You have an R1150. S. S. Yes. I had one. Oh, R1100S. R1100S, yes. I had one of those. Yeah, pretty cool. It's a great bike. Mine's got Ohlins and Rimas. Yeah. It's like a, it's a heater. Steve Gowing did a seat for mine, it was a great bike. I have an R1100GS right now. Oh, right. I've been thinking about getting one of those. Come borrow mine, go take it. Yeah, we could swap for it, you could ride the R1100S. I can't, those days are over. Oh, the bent over stuff. Oh yeah, that's a little too much. It's the seat to peg distance. It's a little annoying. 130 degrees, and mine, mine's stuck at, this one's stuck at like 90. So I'm on, yeah, I'm on GS's because they're just taller seat to peg. Well, and you can probably go out too, right? But it's nice to have the support. It is, yeah. Yeah, this has definitely dictated a lot of things moving forward. So top, uh, top three bikes that you've ever owned out of those 50 plus. Oh yeah, whoa, that's a good one. Favorite, favorite, they don't have to be top, you know, whatever, it's not best. Um, favorite bikes, oh golly, that's a lot actually. So, I think, um, the bike that I was on, Yeah, that was real. It was a real special. It was a real and maybe I just looking at it with rose colored glasses But I had really built that one the way I wanted it It was black and orange and I had put black it was really sweet and like 70s style. Yeah But reliable like it was such a great bike. I just ridden it to mexico and back with some friends. Oh cool We had a great what year was it? Oh one. Okay. So it was the uh, The first kibo. Yeah. Beginning of the twin cam years. Right? Right. When they were still good before they changed some things, so, okay. It was a great bike. It was really, really fabulous. I liked that. Um, I had a, um, R 60 slash two whole Beamer that I had admit stood at. That thing was like what, 68 or something? 64. 64 65 And I had got it to where I could like go kickstarted in my socks. It was just dialed That was a good one. Um. You know, I had this old shovelhead, um, it was a 1974 F L H, which is like the precursor to the road King. And I had that. Um, and I just, I have a lot of fond memories about that too. That was before the internet. So I bought that, um, in 98 and I had found it. Um, I walked out of a bar. My brother was in a band. I was not playing at the time. Yeah, I guess I was but I wasn't and I came out there with my girlfriend who had not yet become my wife Yeah, and sitting outside of the bar was this old harley and I was like What is this thing what I have to know what this is And so she waited with me very sweetly till the guy came out. It was probably like 30 or 40 minutes We just kind of hung out So I asked the guy what it was and so he told me and so literally I opened a thrifty nickel Remember those or the auto trader books, you know, at like free at gas stations and restaurants and whatever kids won't know what those are, but it was like, so that's how you bought and sold things. There was no internet. Yeah, there was like the classifieds in the back of the newspaper or, and so I was looking through this thrifty nickel or auto trader or whatever it was. And this guy had posted one in Aurora and I was living in Broomfield at the time. And she went with me and, We bought it and I was so happy, so, so happy. It was great. And I wrote it a long time. I wrote it to the only time I ever went to Sturgis. I wrote it there and, um, I wound up, uh, I wound up selling it and actually I was ready. I moved to, had moved to Houston, um, to have, to have our daughter and honestly, it's like two hot to ride there this season. Right? Right. You can't even ride. It's just terrible. You just sweaty to be dumb. If you wanna wear a jacket and a helmet, you can't ride in Houston. Right. And so we, uh, we, I sold it and picked up a car that we needed at the time and. It was fine. And then as soon as I got back to Colorado, I bought my first Beamer and away I went again. So, you know, I bet there's, uh, like air conditioned jackets and helmets. No, probably now I can't, I can't afford them. Listen, folks, we need a 2 million listeners. We got to get Kurt the air conditioned helmet. You got to have it. Tell your friends. I know I don't need it. I like simpler. That's why I had that 1976 BMW for so long. I'm the same way. I still, I still have a 73 Beamer. I've got a 84 Harley super glide. It's just, I'm always of the mind of simplicity over, although I do have a 2017 Africa twin, but it's the most basic. There's not even any doodads on that. I just, you know, riding modes, those things are all. It's not my generation. I want, I've never actually owned a dual sport. Like a GS or an Africa Twin or anything. Well come ride either of mine. I've got a GS for you to ride or an Africa Twin. Okay, well let's ride together. If you love one, you can buy one of them. We can swap Peru. I don't need two, you can buy one. Okay, we can talk about it. With all your winnings. All my winnings, yes. Um, I was just thinking, I'm actually blessed in that, I think I, The R 1100 s that I have now, it's one of my top three. Yeah. The, the Valkyrie that my dad gifted me, that's eight years ago. That's a great bike. Um, like Jill and I love riding that thing. Do you still have it? Yeah. Nice. So I have those two now and then that, that 76 BMWR 75 would round up my top three. Yeah, well, the r it was an R 75 6 6, which is. Well known as one of the very best balanced and smooth and handled and and Barry built it out into an 850 because I needed to Okay, I needed to bore it out. Anyway, okay. I was like, well, let's just put the big whatever That was a sweet bike yeah from Ron bright it's true. Yeah, I remember that bike. Yeah, he had put like He had put like three grand into like making that thing like work perfectly. And when I bought it, I was under the mistaken illusion that I would barely have to spend any money maintaining it for the next. It's like, no, I put five grand into maintaining it, but it was over like 10 years. Yeah, it's fine. You know, I, you know, a little bit here and there I can do some, I can do my own stuff in many cases and it just always worked. It, it, it always adds up because you pay so little. Right. So if you had spent 8, 000 on a new bike. You probably wouldn't have to have maintained it much at all. Right, so you buy one for three and you put three into it, you're still under, you know. You just get to ride something that doesn't really have brakes. Yours didn't have brakes? I mean, it does, but not compared to a modern bike. I mean, it was the slow, as my friends called it when they rode it. They were like, how are you comfortable riding this? Which is so funny because people who ride Beamers think that bike was really fast. Well, it was back in the day. That bike was pretty quick. Yeah, no, my, my, uh, the first I just went riding with some friends out to, to Western Colorado. Okay. We went to tele ride and on the R 1100 s? Yes. And then on a Ducati 1200 Monster. Oh, geez. And then on A BMW 1200 Gs Oh, wow. Uh, GSA. Okay. And then a Ferrari, A 4 88 followed you. Yeah, it was with us, too. He was our, uh, one of my college friends, too. Uh, the, uh, not the pista, but the spider. Okay. Convertible. Wow. Yeah. You're high rolling with your friends. And so we were just like, I like to ride fast. You seemed more like a gentlemanly cruiser kind of guy. Especially now that you've had this big accident, but never have. Yeah. But we were just like buzzing through. Sure. Known. Fast or brisk? Brisk. I like to ride brisk. Brisk. Yeah. Yeah, we're riding, I mean, sometimes twice the speed limit, but briskly. That's, that's fine. You're just not doing a hundred. Yeah. Up the canyon. And it wasn't traffic and there was, you know, but you know, it was just, it was kind of lonely, curvy, beautiful roads. Okay. Uh, fast as a car. The Ferrari couldn't keep up with us. It was pretty fun. You think you're fast on a car until you meet bikes. Kind of. Well, and bikes can just pass so much easier even than a Ferrari. Because a Ferrari is like stuck way out there to pass. With a motorcycle, if somebody makes a mistake and you're passing a double yellow, like there's room probably if everybody doesn't freak out. I wish all car drivers realized that. You don't have to like, Pull it way over. All you have to do is move over a little bit, a little edge of the bikes can go right by you. Right through. Yeah. I want so badly for all car drivers to know that. So I'm giving here it is out into the world. But yeah, when you're in, there's a bikes behind you, you don't have to wait for the next turnout spot and come. You could just literally slow down. Especially if you can see that there's nobody coming because you're farther ahead of us. Move your tire over and bikes will just go right next to you. Yep, we'll just go. We'll just go and there'll be no hard feelings. You don't have to freak out and be scared because we're following so close to you, looking for our chance to pass. But it's hard for bikes to go 35 in the canyon. It's so boring. It's really difficult. Yeah. I mean, even then it's like bikes aren't meant to do what cars can do. No. Clutches don't work the same. I've gotten in trouble like before going up, um, what's the tunnel? They call it the tunnel up to Eisenhower. Oh, sure. When it's dead stop traffic. You can't, bikes can't sit still. It's not good for them. No, your clutch will just burn out. Yeah, yeah. It'll just burn out a little over here. Well, in an air cooled Harley or something, it'll just overheat. So we have to move over to the side and crawl up and people get so angry. Although August 17th, that's all over. Yeah, we have lane splitting. It's not lane splitting. Don't say it what our filtering lane filtering. Yes when the traffic is stopped Yeah, we can move as motorcyclists. We have to make sure we don't use that term. Yes, because that's what makes people angry It's true. It makes people very Lane filtering so when it's dead stop traffic or really slow traffic bikes can comfortably and safely Go to the front and get out of the way and lower traffic. It's really Is a actual positive, but it's been abused. In California, where people are blasting down the middle of 80 miles an hour. And that is never been called lane splitting. It's never, that's like a fake term. It's fake news. It's called lane filtering. So August 17th. Yes. I'm excited. Just right on time for my 50th birthday. Well, and the Valkyrie is kind of big. Like, I, I've been thinking about it the last month or so since I learned about this. I'm like, I couldn't, technically I could filter up to the front, you know, just not have to be here, but. But you know, so going up Eisenhower. When you can't, you can't sit still on a hundred degree day, you're going to be pushing your bike up after it blows up. So now you will be able to go in first gear and walk your bike up kindly through to get to the front. And you know, I have had to do that before and people are so angry. Right. They're like screaming at you. It's like, either that or I just have to shut it off and park it on the side of the road until traffic clears. It doesn't work that way for motorcycles. The clutches aren't built the same. Cooling isn't the same as it is in a car. You get to sit in your car with the air conditioner on. This is a good thing. There's a big difference for me to go five miles an hour between lanes. In a leather jacket and helmet. It's not about me getting in front of you. It's about the likelihood of me getting home. On this motorcycle. So anyway, yeah, I'm glad it's finally the state has, and I think it's only a trial, but it's going to be, it's going to, nobody cares enough to turn it around. I hope so. People just get angry, get angry and they get people get in their own world. And you know, I'm kind of a libertarian guy. And so I feel like if I'm not hurting somebody, then it should just be okay. It should be okay. That's the way it should be. Right. Like if this person, they chose a drove their car and car and they're stuck in traffic, but for a motorcyclist. We have taken a different with different sort of, um, you know, options of Yeah. Being hit. Other risks. Yeah, we take other risks. And so, And we have other rewards. That's the reward. It's like, and so I feel like, I really hope people understand that. And we're burning less gas. Unless we got a Valkyrie. All the things. I call the Valkyrie the Anti Prius. Why do you get such bad gas mileage? Well, cause it's got six carburetors. I know, but it should still get 30 miles an hour. No. No? 24, 23. Whoa, guys, you're like a truck. Yeah. Like a Dodge. I'm gonna call it the Dodge. It's like, like me and Jill could take the Valkyrie, or we could take her Subaru, which gets like 26 miles to the gallon, and it's like, it's actually more environmentally conscious. Even my old Harley gets better than you. Oh yeah, well my BMW got like 40 on this trip, going like 90 miles an hour, a lot. Yeah, that's great. It was cool. Yeah, that's 6 speed overdrive in that bike. It only likes, like, at around town or local rides, it was getting like 30, 35 miles an hour. Yeah. But cruising, like, at, you know, cruising speeds, it liked that a lot more. Yeah, that overdrive, you're right. My Africa Twin, it gets like 50, 60. Does it really? It's incredible. I want one of those, I think. It's a sipper, sipper. Come ride that. Well, and it's gotta be so dependable and it just works. Perfect. Right, it's a Honda. It's a Honda. It's such a nice bike. I might have to take one of those for a ride. Take two. Come take one for a ride. Go riding with me. And then you love it. You can buy it. Um, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to put us on a quick break, uh, and we'll come back and do our closing segment. Sounds great. All right. Are we back on? I think we're back on. Okay, great. Let's just be back on. Yeah, let's just be back on. Say that again, like, I found that interesting that, uh, listening to music Oh, yeah. And being stoned? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's one of my, one of my all time favorite Well, actually, the reason I Probably smoked weed the most is to put on a good set of headphones and put on like, um, a live show. Yeah, and then I swear I just hear things differently. I just focus on things differently. I can almost feel what they're doing. Feel what they're trying to get across. It's my favorite. I really, I check out and it's so great. I used to do that when, when the kids were little and my, my ex wife would just be like, yeah, go ahead. I just, I just, Yeah, take like one hit or take a couple hits. Yeah. Yeah, put on like a white law I was really into widespread back then and just put on the cd And put on my headphones and lay on the floor and then the kids would come in and crawl around on me And yeah, it was so great. I just such a vacation Yeah, and so I still do it like I have a couple of real specific specific like dead shows that I love or I just Gotten into the band goose. Yeah, and so that's new to me. Yeah At night after i'm all done with the day and I don't want to play guitar anymore or whatever. I'll just, I just got myself some new headphones and, and, uh, I just go to Spotify has so much good music on Spotify or re listen or archive. So, you've talked about how the, but the music industry in general and band scenes and stuff, like there's a lot of drugs, there's a lot of weed, there's a lot of whatever. I think there can be. Did they, did you feel like, um, uh, discriminated against? Oh, no. Almost? Nothing? There was never any pressure? No. I don't know. Maybe, maybe I guess somebody who maybe is, um, less strong willed than me, you could be that way, but you have an easy time. You do you know, if somebody is like in a not want me around because I don't, well, I mean, I'll just fucking not be around. I'll make my own way on somehow anyway, but no. The everything in the music industry has changed. Yeah. Dramatically post pandemic. Interesting. For the better. Good. In my opinion. Really? Tell me about, tell me about some of those changes. Pre in my twenties, music was always at bars. Right. Always at bars, and you didn't even start till like 10 30 or 11. Right, you just come home at 1 11. Right. It's fucking terrible. Everybody's wasted. Everybody there is just drinking and drinking and drinking, and it's, and it's late. You're not meant to be up like that. Yeah, yeah. And then you got to find somewhere to sleep, or you get home, and you wake up late. Like it's just not healthy. Now music, I swear is like six to nine, seven to nine, four to six on a Sunday. It is great. You get paid by people who pay you and you play for people who are there and enjoy it. It's got a diverse crowd. It's not just a bunch of drunk kids because they're the ones that can afford it. When you play a theater, yeah, nine to 11, right. If nobody's just out like that anymore, there's like a, in this town, there's only like. Maybe seven bars that are even open late. It's true. It's true. Breweries are done by 10, right? Most bars are done by 11, right? It's like, you know, there's like the yeti and there's the college places there Trailhead is open till barely after one anymore though. They don't I know used to be you could go like up to the bell at the trailhead Last call and then that was like, you know, kind of ish Dependent if you do the bartender or not suggestion Yeah, so for me, um, yeah, I I have never felt that I have never felt the The pressure from the music industry. But I've also, you know, maybe I've just been a little lucky or maybe I just refused to acknowledge. I refuse to anything that's, that's anything that spells it all. Like somebody trying to influence me is like the opposite of what I want to do. Yeah. I just, when you get our age, it's like, if you can't set boundaries. You need to go rethink your life, you know, it's okay. It's okay to have boundaries when you're 50, so We always talk about Three main themes as part of the mandatory topics of faith family politics. Okay in any order, okay Well, I would choose the most important one family family, obviously because the other two I Don't put a lot of energy into, but yeah, family to me is, is everything. Let's, uh, how many children do you two. Two beautiful children. Well, I'm about to gain two more because both my daughters are engaged and married. Oh, cool. And so, and two wonderful, fabulous sons. Oh, do you have that kind of like, you get a son in law? I get two great sons and they're, and they are both, when you have daughters, you want them to just be happy and you want them to be with someone who, Not that they can't take care of themselves. They were both raised, but that they want to be a part of their life. And, and both of the, both of the men that have chosen my daughters and my daughters have chosen are stand up really great. Great. And it's all happened unfolded in the last few years. In the last couple of years, really in the last year. Yeah. My oldest daughter, um, just got engaged in France. He, so see like what a, what a, What a great Adrian just, he just impresses me, he, uh, yeah, he, he asked her to marry, he asked her to marry her at, uh, this, the park right outside of, I can't remember all the details, yeah, it was, uh, it was a beautiful and he, the way he did it was great. So, and then my youngest is married and, and her husband is, they just are perfect for each other. They're just great. You know, I could get into all the things that make them perfect, but you know, do you have any grandchildren yet? No. Getting there though. No. Like the progress is, uh, I mean, I They might have some time. They want to just I encourage them to just be kids. Explore, see the world. Right. Be kids in their twenties, man. Be married. You know, yeah. Don't, I had kids early. My wife and I had Emma early. And it was great. And I loved all of it. But, my advice is always, Don't. Just put the brakes on that. Yeah. Be, enjoy each other. Keep the goalie in for three or four or five years at least. Once you start, there's no going back. Right. You know, there's diapers forever. Yeah. Nobody will ever actually be honest about what it's like to have children. And so like, I would be honest. Yeah. And I tell people all the time, like, listen, what you get from having children, you have kids, right? No. No. So what you get when you have kids, not the same as a dog or a pet, but when you have kids, you get this. Unbelievable capacity to love something that you had no idea was in you. If you're choosing to be a good parent, because plenty of parents are D bags, but if you choose to be a present parent and be involved, this capacity to love is unbelievable. And that is it. Everything else in your life, hobbies, money, relationships, time, they all take a beating. They just take a beating. It's like, but if that's enough for you and an occasional, thanks dad, when they're older, that's, I mean, that's really what you get. The illusion that they're going to take care of you when you're old. They're just going to ship you off to a home. And then people say have a second kid cause they play together. That's not true either of the 18 years. They'll be together. They'll play together for total of three months in those 18 years. And you have to have multiple personalities because they're, they both communicate differently. They need things differently. One sleep, even though they're both girls, only a couple of years apart. It doesn't matter. It's more than five times the work when you have two children. So there's Max's parenting theory for everybody. My dad always said, uh, you know, a man should have a dog. Uh, family should have a dog, but no dogs is better than two dogs. It sounds like your theory is the same. So which one of your daughters do you wish you wouldn't have had? No, just kidding. Honestly, I, uh, I always thought like most guys that I kind of wanted sons. And then I took this one summer teaching, uh, climbing. I used to be a big climber when I was in my twenties. And, um, I took a job teaching climbing at this camp and it was an all girls camp. I had never seen girls who, without the influence of boys It's different, huh? It's so different, dude. It was magical. They were They were unbelievable. It was so great. Just any societal pressure, what little women were like. And I was flipped with your daughters too. No, no, this was before this was before. Yeah, I was 25. Um, and so I was like, you know, I'd love to have daughters. And then I had two and I mean, both my kids can swim across a stream. They hit a baseball, they can change their oil. I raised them like Colorado girls, like bicycling early. They don't, they do not mind getting sweaty. They don't mind. They are not princesses, but they are also. Smart, intelligent, women who, yes, yes, you know, I always say like, they don't, we don't talk that often, they don't call me and need me, and that's like, not a bad thing, it means I did it right, you know, we, we, we want to talk to each other, and we want to remind each other how much we love each other, the phone works both ways, we can do it, it's great, but there's never a needy, it's free will, it's so great, yeah, So great. Anyway, um, we always do a, uh, one word description of our, of the children. So, uh, start with your older daughter, if you would. What's her age and name again? She's 23. 23 now? Yeah, she's, oh gosh, yeah, 22 maybe. She's going to be 23. Right in there. Cause they're, they're both fall and winter. Okay. So it's about to be 21 and about to be 24. I think she's 23 now. Okay. 2000. Yeah, she'll be 24. Okay. September 28th. So she's 23. What's her name? Emma. Emma Rose Mackey. Yeah, that's right. Emma Rose Mackey. There's a song on the album called Emma Rose. Oh, cool. I wrote it for her. I wrote, I wrote the line on the way to Texas in the plane. So, her mom and I were, had a difficult, time when she got pregnant. We were young. She had moved to Texas. I stayed in Colorado. Oh wow. And then when Emma was born, I flew instantly to go meet her. We were always very corrigible and connected and we just struggled. Um, but I wrote this line, the Emma Rose that gently grows upon my tabletop stretches out her sunlit arms towards the sunlit spot. She grows in waves of color, pale blue to soft, bright white, and nothing's been the same since she first grew into my life. I wrote that. In 2000 and I put that finally put that line to use On this album and I wrote the song. I love it. I love it. Yeah, so anyway Um, how would I describe her with one word? Yeah. Yeah Oh boy, um I don't know if my vocabulary is good enough, honestly. I'm not, I, I, I mean, we do allow hyphens. I can think a lot of words that like describe her is, you know, she's so mindful and kind and creative and thoughtful, um, organized. Like she just is such a, such a, It's just a prize for a dad, you know, and she has always been like, even with her little sister, she always put her little sister first. I'm sure there's a word that describes all that, but kind of selfless a little bit. Yeah. I just don't know if I would be able to describe her in one word, you know? Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. And then my little one, Sophia grace, she and her sister are just different, but they are both. She is, um, um, Like, when I think about her, she is, shines the brightest when she is giving of herself. She's in, there's a term for that, like when you, uh, Kind of her flow state is in that space. Yeah, like that she got to go to Guatemala and with her mom on a missions trip and just, you just give. Yeah, yeah. You give and she is just, that is when she is like the brightest, when she is giving. She's cheap right now. She spent two years teaching little kids at a, the learning experience. She loves, she just loves to give of herself. That's her love language maybe, or, um, and she's super funny and she's, she's not, her and Emma are different and they're just different. Like I said, when you have two kids, you have to learn to communicate to them both totally differently. You have to be bipolar as a parent. And if you try not to you're just you're flailing you have to be able to just pivot a lot um, she's also yeah, she's just she's inquisitive about life and She's just, just fabulous. Another, you know, another prize for me. And neither one of them were ever like tantrum throwers. They were just such good kids. And I assume that you like eventually, like they have the same mom, right? Yeah. Longer term relationship with Angela. I'm sure from the day. Oh sure. Motel house days. Yeah. She, and honestly, like when people go through divorce, I hear horror stories and we did not live that life. Yeah. We had a Rocky. As any divorce is, is difficult, but we always, always, always, always put our kids first and we've crushed it. We did such a good job. Even like we would trick or treat together. Even when she got remarried, we would do Christmas. I mean, we did the thing to make our kids life. And I would tell that to my girls. Was it harder? Was it not that hard? It's not that hard. It's only hard when you make a choice, right? You can make a choice to make it not that hard. You can make a choice to make it that hard. And you can talk to your children, man. We talked and talked at length. I would tell them always like, listen, life It just is. It is happening around you all the time and comparing your life to other people's lives is a terrible idea. Yeah. Because you might think that, oh well these people aren't from a divorced family. Well, there are plenty of people who are married who scream at each other all the time. Right. And that's not healthy either. Right. Or these people are married but one of them is dealing with stage 4 cancer. Like you cannot compare your life. Your mother and I did not work this way But you are loved loved loved and this is what your life looks like. It's okay and some of that stuff I feel like we don't talk to our kids enough about. Yeah, for sure. You know, we've taken this We've taken the stance that kids can't do anything. Yeah anymore like my last guest Joseph Vanderlund He said that he kind of rocks with the worldview that everybody's Kind of doing the best they can most of the time You bet you know when you when you have that attitude and that's not always true. Some people are nasty sons of bitches Yeah, they'd be run over by a truck. Yeah, you know, yeah. Well, they're there. Oh, they've always been out there, right? I think we're fed it a lot more Sometimes there's too much information people think that the world is bad. The world is tough The world is this but it's nothing very few people actually know you walk in Even like my parents who who are Democrat, like hardcore Democrats. They live in a very conservative town. Where is this? Rogue River, Oregon. Okay. Those same people that do not get along with them politically, They hold the door open for each other. Sure. They sit there and wait for the person to turn in in front of them. They are so sweet to each other. That is the basis of human nature. Yeah. And I really think 99 out of 110 are that way. And I choose to live my life that way. And I have told my kids to always be cautious. But continue to live their life that way. Yeah. It's just not fun if you don't. If you're just always thinking of what's the worst thing to come. Yeah. There's no way to live. Yeah. Um, I got the hint of, uh, maybe there's somebody been, um, With Romantically for a while now. Do you want to talk about this person in the family segment here? Yeah, yeah, she's great. Her name is Chantel Lopez. We were, um, we were introduced. I'm sure you're going to listen to this, probably. She definitely will. She does podcasts of her own. Oh, really? Do you want to plug it? I don't even remember the name. Chantel Lopez. She's done, yeah, she does, um, Skillful teaching. She's got a ton of stuff, but I can't make, they just started a new podcast and I don't remember the name. So I apologize. That's okay. Um, but we don't, we don't push each other that way. We just don't, we have a very different relationship. Um, she lives in Sacramento, California. Oh, wow. We were introduced by, uh, friends who are no longer together, but we're at together. And I remember both of them saying separately, man, you guys are like. Very similar on your approach to life. And I would just, I have never been looking. I'm not, I'm not the kind of guy that's just, you don't feel an absence when you're alone. Nope. Nope. Absolutely not. Yeah. So, and I spent, I spent the time doing the work. Being alone is not easy. It's like people don't give themselves, I get lonely. You know, my wife was gone, you know, for almost a week. That's because you are, I've been there. It's like, so for me, post divorce, like. You, you feel all that, and then it slowly fades, and it slowly fades, and you learn to be by yourself. You learn to enjoy, like most of my days now, I enjoy mountain biking. You're still by yourself a lot. I still, I love it. I love my time. Yeah, see, I like mountain biking with some of my friends. Yeah. Uh, you know, I like going to places and doing things with people. Well, and I have a ton of that. I have so many musical friends. I never feel lonely. And I have cats who love me. I love my cats. Did you see Chantel once a month or something? Yeah, so Chantel and I make the effort and we're both adventurers. So we, our relationship started on two motorcycles. Okay. And so she's put a ton of miles on motorcycles. And we, we first, our first dates were like, let's meet. And we'll go right around Utah like we have had just this great start and. She's got kids of her own, and doing her thing, and I have kids of my own. Until they're done with high school, she's gonna be there, where is she at? What part of California? Yeah, Sacramento. Sacramento, okay. Yeah, we never, we never, we just never make each other feel bad. We've both lived that life, and we know how we want to love, and we align a lot. So you're committed to one another, just from afar right now. Yeah, it's fabulous. It's been, it's just, I mean, it's the most healthy relationship I have ever had. That's cool. Yeah. Or I wouldn't do it. And she knows that. I mean, if she was here and I had my ear, you asked her, what's the one thing about Max? She would say boundaries. He does not, he's, and, and it's, we've like learned to grow from each other that way. It's just been fabulous. How old are her kids? 18 and 10. Oh, so it's gonna be a little while before she moves away from Sacramento. I'm just about to start, I mean, I'm gunning for this music career again. Well, and you've got this album that's coming out, and you're probably gonna be on tour pretty soon, opening for U2 or some bullshit. Yeah, yeah, it's just not a, it's just not a relationship. Who would be your ideal? Uh, open for? Oh, yeah. Great question. Well, my sights are pretty low, but there is a, there's a management company out of Louisville called 7S Management. Okay. And I want on that management company so bad. Oh, you just want them to plug you in different places? Yeah, if you open 7S and you start scrolling through their artists. One of the, there's a, there's a gal who's in one more step above me named Madeline Hawthorne. She's on it. And you know, they help put her on tour and you can open for some of the higher ups on that label. Like it's a really, I want on that. And some of their artists are like Dawes and Andy Frasno in the UK and some bands that I would love. Big Head Todd. Oh yeah. I would love to go support. I've seen Big Head Todd a couple of times. You can open for Big Head Todd. I could do it. I opened for Shakedown Street. You could be like the open for the open to Big Head Todd. Sure. I opened for Shakedown Street solo. Cool. I crushed it. Crushed. I got such good people were like, dude, only you could pull that off. Yeah. Like you just totally crushed it again. Are you doing, are you like looping Grateful Dead kind of tribute stuff? Well, so there idea like that or is that, you better leave that for them. I left it, I did one song, I did Loser. Yeah. Everything else I did was mine. Or I did like the weight so people could sing along with me. It was great. Yeah. Yeah. 400 people singing along this really fabulous. That's really cool. Yeah, so that was fun. So yeah, family. It's good for me. I'm in a really great spot with it, with my kids and the time I get to spend. My parents, I'm the youngest of four. So my, my folks are getting old. They were kind of checked out of parenting by the time you came along. Really? What's that? So they were checked out of parenting. Yes. I mean, great stories about my oldest of four and my youngest brother barely got parented at all. My grandmother had to come in because I could not admit my mom was like done potty training. She's like, I'm over it over a lot of things. with me. So my grandmother came and did some, but yeah, four. And my dad was a full time teacher and building us a home. Oh, cool. So he, in Alaska, it's light all the time. In like, Anchorage, Fairbanks? Anchorage, yeah. Anchorage, okay. So he would work all day, and then he and his buddy were building this log house for two years. That's cool. My mom just was like, gonna kill everybody. Stuck with four kids. And a toddler, you know, you know, we're not going to have time to, we might have to have you back for number two, you bring a guitar. Okay. Um, and we can have some music. We can learn more about the Alaska upbringings. Yeah. I can just play some songs, talk some more about the album. Yeah. Once it's out, you know, hopefully it's sooner than later because you said five ish. Sure. We still have faith and politics still. Politics. I could probably wrap some of this up pretty quick. So faith for me is, um, uh, it's very singular. It's just for me. I honestly, I don't understand. Nobody's organize. Nobody. It's none of nobody's business. Okay. I've never understood, like we're in the same room together. Yeah, yeah. But our views are totally different of what we're seeing and so trying to mash that in. I've never understood organized. You see a white door though, right? I don't, I'm seeing this. This, yeah. If o might look right in our spider plant, but I just mean in general you can never really be the same. Even if, if we try so hard to talk about this wine. we're not gonna quite understand it the same. Yeah. And so one of the things for me that I just have never understood is, is that part of organized religion, and I'm a history major, my brother is a master's degree in history. Yeah. My father's a PhD in history. Interesting. And it's just so much, so much church human strife over religion. And so, yes. And I think, you know, this is just, again, this is just my view. No, I wanna hear it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, and growth too though, don't you think? Like wars have caused untold human strife and they've, we've invented radios and airplanes because of it and stuff, right? I mean, I guess it's just the way it has gone, but you know, now it's like, we just, you know, Elon Musk launches these, we do such amazing things. You know, there's this, you know, this 19 satellites across the sky and everybody's can have internet now, and then we're still fighting a 4, 000 year old war and people are dying. With Israel and Palestine. Yeah, just like, I just, I just like, sometimes I feel like it's such a hold back to me. Oftentimes from somebody who doesn't really, I'm not in that. I want to challenge you with a little bit of that though. Sure, sure. Because I think. Faith in some ways is like a bit of the, the, the search for truth. And like, we've got the situation now where like there's new legislation coming through Congress where you can't adopt a kid unless you agree to like honor their, uh, gender preferences when they become of age or different things like that. And so there's this crisis where Christians might literally not be either allowed or willing. To adopt infants anymore. And Christians are like two thirds of the thing. Well, and is that because there's more than two genders? I just think that's very, I mean, that's like from somebody on the other side, I think that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. But you would not choose to care for this child because your strange belief. What's allows you not the strange belief that you can't love something for who they are. Well, that's fair. I mean, it, it should fair stop right there. In my opinion, it should stop right there. You either love this person, but you don't get to love with rules, in my opinion. Yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, it's like if you, but what's truth, I guess, and that's, I that an extreme example of what I just shared there, but, um. Like the Christians, I believe in this kind of current culture war situation, if you will, are the ones that are saying like, and I'm not, and they, they good ones do love anybody. Sure. They love the gays. Sure. They love the trans. Sure. They love everybody. Just a human. And, and truth is truth as well. And like, but truth is yours is your truth. And my truth. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I do think so. It's like, I think we're in the same, Place so it's relative always but you what you think and what you believe Yes is guided from you from when you are a baby child, right? So what I mean like the same two kids can grow up next door, but if one kid they both have parents but if one kid is Treated a certain way. They just they are different, you know They are just there their truth of the world is like my dad hit me, right? And so it's like you're gonna say that's not true. It's like well that is theirs and so You So I feel like as soon as you start applying labels and you start applying versions of what you think, then you're, you're start to Sure. Well, and I'm not saying that, that you have to believe in Jesus to have no two things or whatever. Um, one question on that front though, like, is there a creator for us? Like, is there a Big Bang? Yeah, like, so here's a great example. Yeah, talk to me about that. Do you have a perception of that? Well, so, as someone who lives with gratitude, I often am wondering, like, where is it? Where does it go? Where do I want to apply it? Um, and so my own feelings of who might have made me and who might have feel, I mean, I just feel so, you bet, but it's like, I don't owe, I don't owe anybody an explanation to that, for that, in my opinion, you know, like my ex wife and her family are very more, um, straightforward Christian and, you bet, and so they're constantly like feeling like, you know, Well, we are scared for you because this, and I'm like, don't worry. I mean, I just feel like you just don't have to worry about me just because I don't believe what you think. It doesn't mean I'm actually don't have the same relationship. I just don't feel like going to a room with similar people and listening to a guy who is no resource and oftentimes a misguided resource. Oh, there's a lot of terrible Christians out there. Yeah. So I just feel like you just, and I know why people do it. I know why. It's the same reason why biker gangs are around. It's like when you don't, when you don't, it's like it's being some, some level of community is actually pretty essential for humans. Absolutely it is. And there are plenty of fabulous, you know, I'm not downgrading all organized religion or people who go, and it's your decision is your decision to my, but when I hear things like what you said, I feel sad because when you are a parent, there's a great, there's a great line in this movie called fried green tomatoes. When she gives birth to a kid with a with a struggle I can't remember what it is, but he's got some sort of and the whole time They're like we could we could kill the embryo we could blah blah blah And she was like I got the best 15 years with my child ever I never saw a single thing wrong with him and that's what it means to be a parent and to love something It's like and if you are applying Yeah, I think you misunderstood my conversation about that adoption stuff earlier. Yeah, and maybe I did, but I was just thinking like, for someone who can't, who would choose not to, who choose not to adopt. Because of, of, uh, their belief in something that, that for me, I was, maybe that's what I took from it. And I was just like, well, that's just a shame. No, it was more about, you can't raise this child as your own child. Kind of. It's like a, a prisoner of the state. Almost like you have to raise them how the state wants them to be. Oh, well, I guess I was thinking they were thinking like, If a child is a boy and decides it wants to be a girl, then who, then great. I mean, great, fair. I mean, I feel like that's, you know, I mean, I think a ton, I think, well, I won't even go in that. That's such a rare thing. I feel like most of those boys that decide they should be a girl are really just gay boys. Yeah. Just who knows? I don't know nearly enough about it to have an opinion. All I know is that. Yeah. We got into a weird tangent. That's okay. Honestly, we're fine. It's like, I just. Nobody, it's just so, it's such a, there's so much things that are just unknown and to start trying to control those things is when it gets real dicey for other people. Yeah, no, I do agree with that. People should develop their own thoughts and not be indoctrinated in anything. Yeah, I think kids, honestly, and I'm not pointing this towards the whole identity thing, but I think kids in general, and we have done this as this generation, we have too much time. Totally. Too much time. Too easy. You can't. My poor kids couldn't even get a job. Right. The only place that would, every place is like, Oh, 18 or above. Right. It's like, how can kids even get started? We demand that they grow up and demand that they do these things. Right. But they're, we don't allow them to do anything. It's really a shame. Like I was working at 14 and I'm not like a proponent of, of, you know, the old days, but what I know is, right. I what's that saying idle idle hands of the devil's playground seriously, like Nothing to do and you're flipping around your phone adults the same i'm like people are on facebook Yammering on about things i'm like go do something right go fucking take a walk Go for a bike ride go work in your garden go do something That is good for you or good for the, your neighborhood or just go do things. And when you don't do things, that's what happens is you just have, you start to make up and kids just don't know anything anyway. I always say the, the dumbest mammal or the dumbest part of this thing is the homo sapien male, 15 to 25. I mean, you just, and I was there, like, you don't know anything and you think you know it all. You do the dumbest things. It's like, you know, when you are working and you have responsibilities somewhat, you just do not have the same time to worry about. I don't, what, what do I, you know, I need an opinion on this. Well, sometimes you just don't need an opinion. You just got to go get your stuff done. And we, you know, in the old days when you had kids because you had needed someone to milk the cow, it's like there was a lot less. Well, there's no pressure on the situation now and so much information these days, so much information, misinformation, well, the community has been lost to do that. Like there isn't really, like you talked about a little bit about some communities and there's, you know, band followers and different things, but my, I'm in a rotary club and it's one of the few that has more members now than it did 10 years ago in our whole state. That's so great. But it's one of very few. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody wants to do. They've some, not everybody, but yeah. Or they just don't know how busy doing stuff. I don't know what people are so busy. Do you know what I did during the pandemic? I built a front patio, not a backyard. Colorado is the best. Ultimate sin of everything. Our backyard is awesome. I sit out front of the sunshines for us. Well, so for me, I sit out front and I see, I live on metal arc, which is right by baby all morning, I see parents go by with their kids on scooters walking. I see on a wave and they wave back and we say good morning. And it's like. I'm the only one who has a front porch on this beautiful street full of beautiful people. It's like more people need front porches and waving and saying hi to their neighbors. And do you know, uh, Scott Jennings by chance? I don't think so. He's the founder of Chiba Hut actually. Oh, okay. And his voice is pretty much the same as yours. Like gravelly old faces or something. How funny. We'll have you on together sometime. I love this. I love that place. It's the best. So we did faith, family, and. Politics. Yes. Yeah. So here's my. Who do you like in February or in November? I mean, um, I just, I guess, no, it's okay. I can just debates this week though. I know the first one. Um, I have my thoughts on politics. I wish. That people who were, I mean, if we're just going for right for the presidency, um, I wish that the folks who are running for president were more in tune with, I wish they were more like you and me. Well, I wish that they had an idea. I mean, like my kids don't have anything. They're what? 78 and 84. Right. They don't have any idea. They don't have represent what kids feel about the future. I mean, this is still such profit driven culture in that level. Profit, profit, profit, profit from really both sides. And I would. For me, it's like, I would, there's only one way I'm voting. I don't know if I should need to say it because it just makes everybody angry. Yeah, it's just, it's just not Trump. For me, it's just not, it's not, I still, I still vote for the person. You know, I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle always. I don't, I just want somebody who reps, wants desperately to represent. So, uh, would you like to vote for RFK instead of Biden? Yeah, I just saw that he's in there. Actually, I was, when I was home with my parents, we Googled, there's seven presidents running. Yeah. Seven people. You never see But there's only, like, there's Trump, Biden, and then RFK is floating around 15 percent in the polls, but they just cockblocked him from the debate here. Oh, they did? Yeah, totally. Always. It just shows you, it's like, this money, it's just money wins. Yeah. Yeah, I, um, Um, but you tend to be, well, so where would you politics be without Trump without, or I just think, I just want, I mean, I don't know, I guess I don't honestly, I don't dwell enough in it. I don't listen to it all the time. I can't listen because oftentimes I feel like both sides are so compelling that I don't know where I land, you know, same with like the pandemic. One side will tell you all the things about vaccinations and the other ones were all telling you the way it's just like, where did you settle out with your head? I got the first round. And I never went back and got another one. I just never did it again. I was like, you know, I'm, I just, I think how do you feel about the mandates and stuff? I felt like that was a little over the top for nurses and stuff. They're like, sorry, you got sick with COVID, fighting COVID, but now we've got this new experimental vaccine and you have to take that if you want to keep your job. I know that stuff is really, I mean, honestly, how I feel about that, how I feel about everything, you know, how I feel about religion is. I just my heart hurts. Yeah, because it's just a tough it's enough tough place to be We haven't dealt with a global pandemic and instead of just being with walking with empathy for all sides People just chose so hard to be excited and he's so angry at each other and it just it's heartbreaking it's the same with a bad divorce like all I feel is just Empathy and sadness like i'm not a rabble rouser. I'm never going to be the guy marching I'm never going to be the loudest voice But what how it affects me is it makes me It hurts my life. It hurts me to yeah to be to around people so angry at each other right and divided and divided I just don't feel like like I just want to listen to music Well, there's just enough we can do so much better if we just support I always feel like that Which I know is a bit altruistic and silly But I just feel like there's always another way to look at things and sometimes we just choose this easy Responsive well people think that they think that it's easy I haven't looked at the challenges hard enough for the most part, like, like the abortion thing is really popular right now, right? Like it's really hard to say a woman shouldn't have control over her own body. I get that a hundred percent. And like, they're killing babies, lots and lots of babies, you know, and that seems, especially in a country that we're not even at a self. sustaining population situation now with our, you know, everybody's got like one kid and that just doesn't cut it. You need like 2. 15 or something just to stay in the same population. Yeah. I guess I just feel like, I mean, it's just a tough one again. That's what I'm saying. If you can't recognize the hard questions, what if somebody is raped? What if somebody, you know, there's so many things. And for the longest time, it was like, But I think those things are being, those are used to divide us. I know. Those items. I know. Um, well let's, let's jump on to the loco experience, are you ready? Yeah, let's do it. The craziest experience that you're willing to share with our listeners. Yeah, crazy experience? Crazy experience, yeah. Could be a moment, a day, could be a year in the life. Yeah, I think um, I mean certainly I was asking if your leg was the craziest thing that ever happened to you. The leg was the hardest thing, and I've been through, I had my house burned. I bought a house in September and it burned in November. And I've had it, you know, I've gone through a Like when? It was 2016. Okay. Yeah. I've dealt, I feel like I've dealt with, you know, I, the divorce was sprung on me. Like I, it wasn't a thing that I, I mean, looking back, like I could see things that I wasn't able to see. But, you know, I just, I feel like I've gone through some tough things, but, um, I think the leg. Yeah. Was definitely easily the hardest thing because it pushed me to a place that I just had never been I had never been in in, you know, my life has been fairly things that happened. I could I could handle Yeah, this is the first thing that was out of my control and I thought at the time Yeah, this is the end came to a place of acceptance. Yeah Probably lose my leg and whatever. Well, actually when I decided to cut it off, you know, I'll take that route It was the ultimate acceptance of I know I can't live this way You I think anybody who lives in pain, if they could remove an appendage to make the pain go away, they certainly would, because people who like, people who live with, I don't know all the different forms of chronic pain, but My heart is just, I mean, I just can't even imagine it. Actually, Chantel works with a patient who his whole life, his body attacks itself and he has to wear, um, opioid patches and they won't give them to him because it's like, it's awful. And she just helps him if she doesn't help him move. She's a movement coach in general. She started with Pilates and she teaches teachers. She has her background is in body movement and just body chemistry and makeup, but she, you know, helps this guy twice a week. To move, you know, she will say she'd be the first one to say move or lose it. Yeah, move yourself Even if i've got some friends from moto house that are older I'm like, let's go to coffee. Even if you just get up and get dressed and go to your car and go to a coffee shop, it's like, you just cannot sit. I mean, I am a full knowledge of what happens if you sit too long, your muscles go away, they, your little protein chains disintegrate. It's terrible. It's crazy. How yeah, like I still can't move my ankle the same. Yeah, my ankle didn't even get hurt Really because it sat still for so long, right? I can't atrophied. Yeah, look at the oh, yeah You got look at the distance of how much I can raise. Mm hmm. It just won't go up anymore Yeah, so anyway, it's a bummer because it affects the rest of you. So move your body Well, and like you went into that surgery thinking yeah, they might cut that. Yeah Yeah, and I'll be here now. It seems like a huge Blessing. It's such, dude, I mean, I, again, like If I could hug kins fodder monthly and tell him, tell him anytime you want one. What he, he what, how he helped fix and sort my life out. Uh, you know, if he wouldn't have done that Right. And nobody else would've done it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I was ready, I was ready to go. The kind of basically called an audible too on the like Yep. Treatment plan solutions. Yeah. He was like, I'm gonna go in there with all these things. be ready for what I see. Yeah. I woke up. This is great.'cause I woke up, like he said, it was like 90% we're doing the block. Yeah. But I'm gonna bring the knee in there. And the other 5 percent we might, you might wake up with no knee. So he was like, just be prepared for this. And so I had prepared myself and I woke up and the gal was. You know, you're foggy as all get totally that was like my 11th surgery under Under anesthesia. Yeah. Yeah, I got I got anesthesia. Maybe just once I broke my compound fracture of this leg Ten days before I graduated high school. Oh golly Some guys were racing. My horn honk was supposed to be the starting gun. So like one two, three go So they took off And got a little ways down and I took a motorcycle. Yeah. I'm on a motorcycle CB 400. Okay. 78, 78. That was a pretty nice, a good one. It was top five still. And I was like, I'm taking off. I'm flying through the gears. I'm wearing dad's old helmet. That's all scratched up and going into the morning sun. And then Holy fuck. I'll be damned if I'm coming up really fast on them. They got a bad start. They waved to each other. Let's stop and restart. And I'm sliding in on the back tire because I'm still a rookie. Uh, wasn't it? One of them didn't use the front brake enough. Yeah. Rear ended, uh, the Mercury marquee that Travis trout landed on the hood. Uh, busted leg broken via compound fracture. Yep. Just one of them, just the big one. And got up, walked back to dad's bike and started trying to pick it up and then went, ow, oh shit, my leg is. Broken. Dude. How old were you? Uh, 18. High school. 17. I wasn't quite 18 yet. It was right before I graduated high school. What a different time. They put you in a cast and stuff back then. Oh yeah, like, uh, maybe 10 weeks with a full leg cast at a bend. I got to college and I had, like, my leg looked like my wrist. Seriously. All hairy. They don't do that anymore because they realize, you know, Sitting, not moving is worse. Now they just put a little titanium in there and you're in a boot. You're moving around. Oh cool. It's great. Yeah, it's a different world now. Different world. I mean, you know, five years ago I'd have no leg. Right. This, this surgery, this. This, um, there's not even that many people that can do it. The doctor that did it, it doesn't even live here anymore. He's onto a different hospital. So you'd be stuck if you were here now. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, when I was, I mean, it's not beautiful, but it looks pretty good. I mean, it's there, right? I got freckles on it. Yeah, that's good. Encouraging sign. Yeah. It's except some wacky swelling over here. I'm going in on the ninth. Yeah. But they just, it was nuts, man. It was that whole process. So I think if, if that's the. That's what I get to deal with. You know, I'm sure there'll be more as I get older, but I mean, that was like the big Crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I hope it stays that way for you. Thanks. I'm moving into we didn't get to finish this thought But oh, yeah, I'm moving into the loss of my parents at some point Which is gonna be really hard for me My father just actually had a stroke and passed he passed away on the gurney and then they revived him And he's crazy. My kids and I went to say goodbye and then they pulled them off life support and he lived. I know it's unreal. Now he's like in assisted living and making a comeback. So that has been a total mind meld. Um, but I just went and visited him for a week and spent two and a half hours a day at his assisted living place. And we had a great time. My mom and he's communicative. And so yeah, his brain is like 98 percent back. Well, his body is, you know, he's 87 year old. I'm the youngest. So he was older when he had me. Sure. That's like the new thing for me is like Helping my parents transition. Yeah, you know and I want to do it gracefully with them and I want to make it good They gave in the right ways. Where are they at now? Southern Oregon and Rogue River. Okay. Yeah, would you move out there? I sure would I've been here for 26 years now. Yeah, and um, well, it's closer to Sacramento too. It's closer Actually, I'm gonna go there for six weeks this winter. Okay, see what it feels like. Yeah to be out there. I wish Chantel and I would be five hours apart. I'll be able to be there with my kids. I just gotta figure out the music. You know, my music community is here. The nice thing is, if I sold my home here, as you know, it's worth, you know, I owe two something and it's worth eight. So I could go there, spend three. Really, it's not super high priced there yet. Oh no, it's nothing like Colorado. And I could put half a million in the bank. What? Right. I could just play really sparse gigs. So I don't know. I'm up against a bunch of things that I hadn't thought of. Realized I had to think about yeah, but my brother lives out there and he's willing to help and yeah So we're just gonna tackle and airplanes aren't that expensive either, right? Look, it's a two and a half hour flight from here, right? Boom. Boom. Yeah, easy. Easy peasy. So yeah, well good luck with that Uh, you know, I'll be facing the same thing because we're basically the same age. Yeah, we sure are When, uh, you didn't say exactly when the album's coming out, but how would people find it? Like, should they just go on like iTunes or whatever? Um, you can always go to max Mackey. com and that's my website. It has all my dates and it'll have all the updates when it's coming. Your upcoming shows, all that shows, um, on Spotify and Apple music and everything. It's under Max Mackey band. Okay. That's what I released it as. I probably might change it just back to Max Mackey, but I don't know yet. This will be released differently. The guy that's been helping me with it has reminded me that nobody really listens to albums anymore. They just make playlists. So I'm actually going to release it in three chunks. I'll release three and then I'll release three more and then I'll release the final four. Yeah. And so, but then I'll be part of the album. I am going to make vinyl and I will have that as like a full on CD release party. Yeah. And that'll be definitely, you know, if you're on social media at all, it's all max Mackie music. Instagram, Facebook, and then Max Mackey is my website, and then Max Mackey Band on the I've started, uh, I've started listening to albums more lately. I love, I love it. It's making a huge comeback, so I'm gonna Yeah, well not, not vinyl, like I just go and play I want to listen to this album, you know, uh, Cause there's something about it, like, being a curated group of songs instead of just That's not Well, the thing is, it's like you miss so much when you just listen to the two hits. Right? I mean, like, here's a classic, one of my favorite examples is the band Toto. Yeah. People just realize, so tunes way down in Africa and that's it. And that's what they know. That's all I know. Or they know. Um, oh gosh. On the tip, my tongue. Anyway, it's not gonna come to me. But there's, that's the two hits. But I mean, Steve Lu Luer is that guitar player. Yeah. Those guys are incredible. I mean, that's an incredible, incredible band. And if you don't dig in or like, um, uh, Steely Dan, like, you know, you just, you, you pick the two radio hits. But you, you missed the catalog of what an unbelievable. So I wish, I hope that people will go back to that. Like the B sides of the stones were great. Right. They're great blue stuff. That's not, that's not the otherwise overplayed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can't, it can't always be the hits. We're just fed to only think. So I was going to say, stand by your album. I will. It's not three groups of three. It's a fricking album released in three parts. Yeah. Well, I hope when I do this, when I do the album release, It'll be vinyl and everybody can come and people can, if they want to book you for their birthday party music or something like that, they can just contact you through the website or max Mackie band at gmail. And that's when I have you. Oh yeah. That's that's what's on there. Cool. Yeah, man. Well, it's been fun. It's been great. This has really, really been fun for me. So I'm glad to have you here. Yeah, man. All right. We'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Loco Experience podcast produced and sponsored by Loco Think Tank. This is your producer Alma Arellano. Check out our website at thelocoexperience. com to find all of our episodes, nominate future guests, or leave us a message. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at The Loco Experience. To support the show, please subscribe and share it with your favorite people. Until next time, stay loco.